Patch message - cool change for tradeskills

[TheGiantOne]

Hmm..

Okay you want to play games?

I erased my entire post since apparently things are ok on other servers but they are not on Povar so next time please think about that before you tear apart a Povar Server post.

Thanks,

[eqNichola]

Please don't crosspost.

Hmm..

Okay I can see what has happened here folks.

You have heard the saying "you have to give something to get something in return"?

Thats exactly what Verant has done. Oh yes on the trivial side of things you will see an improvement but on the high end (ANY SKILLUP POINTS) we unfortunately got nerfed whether you want to see it or not.

Before the patch on shadowscream armor (gorget which is trivial at 228). Both tests were done using the gorget mold.

First test was smithing at 188 ending at 200

300 attempts
210 successful combines
90 failures
12 skill points

After the patch the following happened.

This test was smithing starting at 200 and ending at 206

300 attempts
220 successful combines
80 failures
6 skill points

Now do you see what has happened?

I see variation entirely ascribable to the random number generator.

On the trivial you are so right X amount of points below our skill. They did improve that and in fact they improved most of the sub combining on most trivials out there. But on a different test combining stonewood sap in brewing barrel as a 250 skill and trophy I failed on a 192 skill combine 60 points below me 3 out of 4 times. Before patch I never failed that recipe.

I see variation entirely ascribable to the random number generator. If this is the first time you have failed a temper combine, you have been very lucky.

So Verant has given us very minor trivial combines but in turn nerfed the high end even more. I have seen failures by other Gm's in various skills at various times since the patch.

GM has never meant guaranteed success

Tailoring high end 4 out of 5 attempts failed where person had a 1 failure out of 5 rate before patch.

Smithing 3 failures out of 5 where before was 1 out of 5.

Brewing 3 failures out of 4 where before was 0 out of 4.

All of the above were at 250 skill and trophy btw.

Should I go on?

You should keep going on until you have statistically significant evidence, if you want to make a point.

and also to top it off the skill up rate HAS BEEN NERFED by what I would say about 50% change.

No it hasn't.

What other piece of information which I think will be invaluable to some of you is the following:

DO NOT BELIEVE that because you have a 250 skill and a trophy that you don't have to worry about the stats for that particular skill when you make those high end items. If you trust in that I have a bridge in swamplands to sell you

So my 250 JC mule with 90 INT (I sold the INT gear after getting her to 250) who gets exactly the same success rates as a played-character 250 JCer is actually a figment of my imagination, is she?

The following was another test done by myself and by another class making the stonewood compound bow.

10 bow attempts each made at various times so to be a fair chance for the RNG.

I'll let this one speak for itself

Myself:
3 successes with dex at 305.

Other class:
All stats wis, int str dex at 305.
9 successes out of 10.

Do you think that's statistically significant?

So yes max out all your stats as high as they can go to get more successes on the high end items even when you are at 250 skill and a trophy in any skill.

I refer you to my JC mule

So you decide. If the nerfs did not take place and supposedly once you reach 250 and trophy in any skills as is posted all over the place and even backed by Verant that stats do not make a difference (only while you are getting the skill up points) then why the huge difference in successes based on various stats when 2 people have the same exact skill?

Normal variation ascribable to the random number generator.

Its a question I want answered myself. All the posts I have been reading on these boards and others I belong to seem to support my figures and facts in this post here.

Read again.

[Cravin]

Hmm the good ole RNG I actually had great sucess this weekend with he new trivial failure code. I lost far less blessed dusts of tunare. I went 140 for 140 on cod oil, 20 fo 20 on both converting BDs to dust and makeing celestial temper and the final infused terrorantula silks. and on 180 Sacred robe attempts I went from 239 tailoring to 248 tailoring. the only real downer was way way to many successfull robe attempts I ran out of GSC's (had 60) so I have 120 more robe attempts waiting for me when I get more GSC's. At least for me the tradeskills patch was AWSOME!

[Boleslav]

I have a small piece of data to add.

406 Heady Kiola atemtps, 400 successes. 98.5%

Brewing skill is 177 and Heady Kiolas go trivial at 46. (diff is 131)

I made the Heady Kiolas to help power me through Wu's. I averaged one tailoring skillup per 5.1 attempts from 131 to 158 with a WIS of 205. No apparent nerf on mid-level tailoring skillups.

And the only combine of the bunch I really cared about… 1/1 on Shawl 5, wuwu!

Boleslav Forgehammer
Paladin of Brell in his 63rd Campaign
E'ci – Sacred Destiny

[Turlie Silverwine]

Me too.

7/13/03
Brewing = 188

300 Heady Kiola atempts, 300 Successes - 0% failure.

yea!

[Diania]

hmm.. 250 brewing + trophy, and in the past few days, I've done about 12 stacks of soda water (240 combines), first round (either Friday or Saturday) I failed about 8 out of 120, second round (today) I didn't fail a single one. Before the change, I would usually fail roughly 10 or so in 120 combines, maybe a few more.

[Ladyslipper]

Can it be some players are bugged? Or servers?

Before this patch I made 19 out of 20 attemts on Shadow temper. The trivial is 135 my skill is 135. After the patch I made 4 out of 6 attemts on Shadow Temper. Could be random number generator yes...

but...

Before the patch I could make 18 of 20 greyhopper hide peices with a skill of 95 on the 88 trivial combines. After the patch I failed 4 out of 12 combines.

This runs a consistent pattern of increased failure, perhaps I just had a bad day, but I wasn't going to waste long hours of farming to test the theory.

So I polled other players on my server...

Smithy with 115 skill made 6 of 8 banded bracers, slightly higher fail rate than his normal. He then tested a 20 stack of metal bits, 18 of 20 success so not worse but not better.

Brewer with 200 skill reported failing 4 out of 20 heady kiolas.

I talked to others who were reporting no benefit or slightly higher fail rates. I have yet to find someone that the patch is helping them on Stromm. Maybe they are out there and its just a personal issue or one of those bugs that affects a select group...

but personally I am afraid to hit combine because it took 4 hours to get the essence of shadows for 6 tempers, naturally I am upset.

Putra

[Reflan]

Patches and anything new tends to be bug-licious. I wouldn't combine anything super expensive for a little bit unless you feel you really have to. I did myself...and wound up with undesirable results.

[Boleslav]

Ladyslipper,

Not to pick on you specifically, but compare your observations to the three preceding you. The low number of combines an each of your observations really makes them statisically meaningless.

Larger sample sizes give more insight into the long term trends rather than the fiat of the moment.

Boleslav

[Kieroth_whiteleaf]

Rapidly turning into a dead horse issue, but here's my data:

After the patch: Brewing 103; 80 Heady Kiola attempts; 0 Failures. I know I was failing MUCH more than that last time I worked on wu's (before patch), but my brewing was closer to the 50-60 range and that low over trivial the estimated failure is like 20% or so, so that data is relatively meaningless.

SFG

[xaanru]

Had my largest fail rate ever making Fierce Heraldic armor. 14 attempts and 3 successes Anyone else getting creamed in high end fails?

Went 4/6 on Fine heraldic yesterday, so no its not worse, you just got bitten by the RNG.

[Tudani]

I went 2/2 on pop pottery combines yesterday. Not statistically significant either, but my chanter friend went 2/2 on pop jewelry combines yesterday too (250 skill no jewelry AA). So I haven't noticed anything bad on high end combines.

I haven't done any big runs in very trivial combines since the patch, but I've heard good things.

In response to TheGiantOne, before you claim that your numbers mean anything please make sure that they are statistically significant. Look at all the posts with people going 100 - 200 or even more combines for a single skill up. The RNG is very random, and to make matters worse, it's streaky and random!! Skillups especially have such widly varying numbers that I tend to ignore the cries of "NERF" that occur after every patch. Soon enough people post that they at least have had fine skillups and everybody goes back to not worrying till the next patch. Don't blame bad skilups on the patch until you've had that verified by at least 10 other people all doing in excess of several hundred combines each, preferable closer to 1000 combines each. Instead, blame the RNG because no matter what that's what determines if you recieve a skill up. The patch changes were made only to affect combines that were at or past the 5% failure rate, I have seen numerous posters listing hundreds of combines to back this up, I believe that this change is working well and am quite happy with it. If you still have concerns, I saw a lovely post a bit ago that listed your changes of having 5 failures out of 40 combines on an expected 5% trivial item, and looking at it that way, the chances are extreamly high, and I'm sure the math is much the same for the new expected fail rates.

[Dolanen]

Over different sessions and zones I've had consistantly worse combine success on heraldic, tae ew and sickle combines since the patch. Could be extended bad luck but no harm in posting the results.

tae ew tunics 1 for 3
tae ew legs 1 for 2
tae ew shields 4 for 12 (this one is pretty tough to believe)
tae ew daggers 1 for 3
heraldic (forget the types) 7 for 20
sickles 9 for 25

While the numbers aren't extrodinarily alarming, and individually dismissed to a bad day, overall its very painful (especially 4 for 12 on shields). I've never had this many eaten combines over a stretch this sized before. With the aid quest power skillers and market flooding I'm looking to break to even at best in this batch.

All this is with 247 + trophy.

Dolanen

[Dolanen]

And yeah, not crying wolf on the results, I just figured why not share them. You never know, maybe at the very least someone will feel better when they have much better success!

On the topic of the trivial items, pushing the combine button on those infused rings and sickle parts has become a much more pleasant experience.

Dolanen