Casual Tradeskilling: Methods of Mastery in a day

[FeroceFV]

Keep in mind, what I'm shooting for is not grand-mastery (200+), but mastery (100+). I agree that using more recipes to have smaller trivial intervals is a good idea, but some recipes are just so cheap and so convenient that it makes sense to spend a few plat to get them up. Down the road, of course, things go slower, but why take everything slowly when there are easier and quicker ways to get to a rudimentary mastery of a tradeskill?

[Reflan]

A lot of suggestions people make are not qualified -- they don't take absolutely essential things into account.

Skull ale needing a skull(for which you really need a tracker and at least a certain level if you want to not die and/or waste your time) is one example. But more importantly, there's faction. Telling an ogre to skill up in Halas or in Highpass is not much help. Sanctus Seru may be an option in brewing, but not for an ogre shaman, either. Not all this needs remain unsaid, because sometimes faction issues are not always transparent. For instance, some dark elves can wander freely through Katta; some can't. Agnostics casters can wander into The Outpost in The Overthere; many others can't. My ogre shaman can walk through some of Neriak's Foreign Quarter, but there are plenty of things that want to kill him there too, including even some trolls and ogres!

A final and extremely important qualifying thing -- don't even bother taking up tradeskills unless you have high WIS/INT or STR/DEX for the skills that require those, unless you have extreme patience. Or perhaps money to burn. I have 260 wisdom, the cap at level 61 without planar power and innate enlightenment AA's. My skill ups come MUCH faster for me than they did for my lower level druid, who found skill ups far faster at 170 than 130, at 200 than 170, etc. And a level 65 friend who has 325 wisdom says his skill ups come like lightning in anything he does; much faster than mine do.

Tradeskills take money, sure, but also gobble up time that could be used for MAKING money. So even if a skill seems cheap, there is an opportunity cost in sitting around failing to skill up or make sellable product. You are throwing away money if you don't optimize things for yourself.

So optimize! Get an INT or WIS suit for skilling purposes, or STR/DEX whatever. Borrow a nice INT/WIS item or three from a friend for a few hours. Buy a KEI, do what it takes. You may lay out thousands of plat, but save yourself literally dozens of hours. And in those hours you could perhaps easily have made the plat through hunting, buying/selling, or using a tradeskill you're already very good at to scrape together a few more plat.

Tradeskilling may be for everybody, but that doesn't mean you can expect equal success without putting in equal effort to get suited up right. Sure, someone has probably gotten to GM something with 170 WIS/INT or something, but are all his hours and failures and lack of sellable product(for skills that even have them) the brightest way to go about it?

Saving money up front by just trying to smash your way through things with low WIS/INT is probably not going to save you much money, and it will definitely make your skill-ups take forever and a day. And it's bad enough in brewing or baking -- but imagine how much time and effort you save as, say, a tailor or smith when you have the highest stats you can get. The time and money savings can be staggering!

On some other matters:

In pottery, casseroles are about the most time-consuming, aggravating thing you can do. AND -- you can only buy the casserole sketches in Jagged Pine. This is both a big pain in the butt if you are doing them over a large range of skill-ups and will need many sketches, and an even worse pain if you are KOS in Jagged Pine. A further thing to keep in mind is that part of the casserole recipe doesn't stack, so you will need plenty of free bag space and/or a mule to help hold your supplies wouldn't hurt either.

Because of all those factors, doing casseroles is a bad choice indeed if you can do anything reasonably comparable.

Poison, lined, and sealed vials can take you from 148 to 188 pottery very quickly and easily and cheaply. Skill ups were FAST for me. I felt like a kid in a candy store. If zombie skin was candy, that is.

A lot of people don't know how to get zombie skin. If evil, try Neriak vendors -- it's a gold mine for them, as many people do not have Neriak faction, especially the people you really compete with in vendor mining -- druids and wizards, the porting classes who can jump around to all the vendors very quickly. They cost 1 gold each if your CHA is at least 105. The gypsy vendors in South Ro are often stuffed with them.

If you're good-aligned, all of the Commons areas -- East Commons, West Commons, the EC tunnel -- often have stack after stack of zombie skins on a good day. Evils can use the EC tunnel, too. North Ro, South Ro, and Oasis vendors are often stuffed with them too. Evils can often use the Oasis vendors; my ogre can, and I think my iksar monk can too.

And Gukta is the greatest for zombie skins. There are regularly more zombie skins than I can possibly buy with my druid.

All this farming can get you other nice goodies sometimes too, like pelts and silks for making leather padding, etc.

And, if you keep your eyes open, you can see other things you can buy to make vials with that most people who buy zombie skins leave untouched. Black wolf skin, thick grizzly bear pelts, and puma skins all can make vials. Considering all the ingredients you can get to make vials, they are a very cheap, fast way for people of any race/religion to get pottery to 188.

Casseroles were living death in comparison, even though I have a druid to make Jagged Pine runs and tons of mules to hold extra sketches, etc.

Someone mentioned making pots in pottery, and detailed making metal bits, if I recall. This is a big pain in the kiester with lots of clicking. Don't bother. Just stick to your jars and bowls and destroy the results without firing them.

By the way, I recommend everyone getting their pottery up high enough to make Thurgadin gate potions. Even at 148 I failed the rare final combine on them from Frieda or whatever her name is in Thurgadin. The gate potions are incredibly useful. Sometimes a succor or evac leaves people behind; sometimes your porters are dead or drained of mana in some battles by mana-sapping spells. I remember a wurm in Akheva sucked dry the mana of every porter/TL'er in our multi-person group, as things repopped around us and our clerics were all out of mana for healing. I'd say WE were screwed, but I wasn't. Even though I couldn't cast gate, I was able to thurg potion out. Everyone who refused to take the time and effort and cash(really not much of any at all) to get pottery high enough to make thurg potions died.

Ever have to gather REALLY fast to get to a mob before it de-popped or before another guild got to it? People eventually getting to one place or another in dribs and drabs as it becomes more and more important you're going to lose out on the mob because your guys just can't seem to get their s__t together? With the thurg potion, everyone gates to thurg from on the very spot they're standing, boom they're all in one spot. Porters immediately group them up or TL them to wherever you have to go and life is a garden of roses.

In short, the thurg potion is a great thing to have. Even if you eventually become KOS in thurg and are afraid you will just die there instead of dying to the mob that's about to kill you, it's a lot easier to get your corpse out of thurgadin than it is out of, say, TOV or Sebilis or any place that takes a good long run through dangerous territory, isn't it?

TAILORING -- some sessions in Crystal Caverns and Velks will get you lots and lots of materials for making crystalline silk combines to take tailoring up to 130-ish. I had several backpacks full and sold many backpacks more because of all the CC/VELKS I did on multiple characters. The velium blocks, bricks, and pieces can also be sold for good money for the guild fund(or yourself) or saved up for further skilling up later in tailoring and smithing.

Raising skills through woven mandrakes can be very expensive. If you're going to do that, or picnic baskets, try to save all of it up, or at least sell it in the bazaar. For people getting baking to high level, both are very nice to have without making them, the woven mandrakes especially, as one stack can make you many picnic baskets when combined with steel bonings.

[Angelsyn]

If you've got the cash, making Golden Ribbons in the Lighthouse in Gunthak is the way to go after 131 Tailoring.

Of course, you need Sylvan Berries, Honey Berry, Plant Shoots, Steamfont Springwater (the list goes on...) but anyone can make the dyes for any race's tailoring, and anyone can make the Ribbons with anyone's dyes.

It's a tad expensive, but it'll get you to ~165 Tailoring without the nightmare of Wu's.

[Greymantle]

Baking..

Something to consider for baking skill ups, filited meats. Takes a vender bought (or looted) piece of meat+filet knife. Cheap and easy, trivials in the 140's as well. meat can be purchased in thurg and shadowhaven for sure. I carry one of those collapsable spits with me and my knife. If i get any meats as loot , quick food.

[andaerice]

Because of all those factors, doing casseroles is a bad choice indeed if you can do anything reasonably comparable.

Poison, lined, and sealed vials can take you from 148 to 188 pottery very quickly and easily and cheaply.

I have to agree with that. I finally gave up on the casserole dishes out of sheer frustration and went with the vials. With 216 WIS (or more with KEI), I was still having to go through nearly a stack of final combines per skillup. The unstackable lining combines were just driving me nuts.

Also, you can sell the vials at the bazaar for a bit of money back as long as you stay under the price of merchants. Even to merchants they sold back for a bit of recovery of costs, unlike the cost of casserole dishes (about 1.5pp to make, only silvers to sell back).

[FeroceFV]

I actually went from 148 to 199 that way... it took me a couple of days, though, I'll admit. OK, I'll revise the guide.

[Balkin]

Alright, an update for you. I decided to GM brewing with my Wizard.

Erudite Wizard
20th level
256 INT
112 CHA
All merchants Indifferent or better faction. (Mino's brew was at apprehensive faction. It was the best I could find where the ingredients were all in one zone)

***********************************

Fetid Essence

0 - 122 Total Cost 4pp 6gp 7sp 1cp

385 attemtps 126 successes (one skill up per 3.15 attempts)

***********************************

Ol' Tujim's Fierce Brew

122 - 135 Total cost 5gp 1sp

54 attemtps 43 successes (one skill up per 4.15 attempts)

***********************************

2x Brewed 2x Stout Dwarven Ale

135 - 142 Total Cost 1pp 3gp 7sp 6cp

32 attempts 30 successes (one skill up per 4.57 attempts)

***********************************

Faydwer Shaker

142 - 188 Total Cost 32pp 1gp 9sp 8cp

453 attempts 384 successes (one skill up per 9.85 attempts)

***********************************

OVERALL COST 0 - 188 BREWING 38pp 7gp 3sp 5cp

That's right, 188 brewing skill for under 40pp.

EDIT: Forgot to add, ONE KEI so add 50 PP to that for just under 90 total.

*shrug* Now to Mino Hero's brew to give myself carpal tunnel and get to 248. I'll update this at 200 (for those who can't go over that due to GMing another skill etc) and then again at 248. I'll even do constitutionals to get to 250. I have a tinker friend who's going to make me a couple corking devices.

OK Update

***********************************

Minotaur Hero's Brew

188 - 200 Total Cost 18pp 9gp 8sp 2cp

263 attempts 150 successes (one skill up per 21.92 attempts)

TOTAL COST TO 200 57PP 7GP 1SP 7CP

This is the cut off for those who can't exceed 200 for whatever reason.

NOTE!!!!! 2 KEI's for 90pp also, to the grand total to 200 was 148pp

***********************************

Minotaur Hero's Brew

200 - 248 Total cost 47pp 9gp 5sp 1cp

1230 attemtps 838 successes (one skill up per 25.62 attempts)


2417 TOTAL ATTEMPTS (one skill up per 9.75 attempts AVERAGE)

TOTAL COST 0 - 248 170pp for FOUR KEI's AND 105pp 6gp 8sp 8cp ingredients cost

so, 275pp 6gp 8sp 8cp overall cost to 248. I'd say that's a pretty good price.

[KyrosKrane]

Just stick to your jars and bowls and destroy the results without firing them.

I can't understand why this misconception keeps getting perpetuated. I'll be the first to grant that pottery is pretty cheap compared to, say, tailoring or smithing. But it's NOT free, and any chance of recouping money is a good thing.

Firing the results and selling them back is a decent way to keep your costs down. The advice to destroy unfired items only makes sense if your goal is to get skillups as fast as possible, without any need to worry about finances. This is rarely the case.

Let's take a look at an approximated example based on a recent pottery run that I did. You're working on sealed pottery vials, and your cost per combine is around 2pp per attempt. You buy enough supplies for 200 attempts -- costs a little over 400pp. At the end of the run, you have 150 unfired vials. Common wisdom (according to this philosophy) says you destroy those vials. That means you're out 400pp.

What about if you fire them? Well, each firing sheet costs just over 5sp or so. 150 sheets cost about 8pp. Firing has long since gone trivial, so you'll fail an average of 5% -- 8 failures, 142 success. Now guess what? Those successes sell back for just under 2pp each -- that's 284pp back in your pocket. Subtract the 8pp for the sheets, and you're still ahead 276pp over destroying the vials. You net loss is only 124pp, instead of the 400pp you lost by destroying the vials.

Granted, it takes more time and effort, and you're not getting skillup checks on firing the items. However, you are recovering money that can be put towards future skillup runs, and making an item that may or may not be useful to other tradeskillers and guildmates.

[cattywumpus]

I only recommend destroying pottery skill up pre 148. The sell back on items up to that point is just too poor to be worth the trouble. You can use the time it would take to fire the items and earn more money killing things.

Once you start in on poison vials the resale value does climb up to a point where it is more feasable to fire and sell the vials to finance more skill ups.

[Minta Rose]

Please do bazaar the plain poison vials for 1.5p or less! Vials of mana, especially a run of viscous (the cheap kind, for Wu's armor), chew through more vials than I always think to buy after I've dragged myself to whatever corner of the world has a poison vial merchant.

[Reflan]

"Reflan wrote:
Just stick to your jars and bowls and destroy the results without firing them.


I can't understand why this misconception keeps getting perpetuated"

Well, there's no misconception about it; it's just a piece of advice you don't agree with or perhaps don't like.

Notably, you seem to forget that I was talking about bowls and jars when you mention items that are much higher level -- poison vials. Like you, I fired and sold (almost all) my vials.

If you indeed mean your example of vials to apply to bowls and jars too, the amount of money to be made back by firing your results is incredibly trivial and since these finished products do not stack, adding in the time to fire your results and run back and forth to vendors more than twice as often, and to run to the kiln as well, is a huge expenditure in time compared to just using the pottery wheel and dumping your results without firing them. This wouldn't apply to steins, of course, which can return fair profit on the one hand and are expensive to destroy on the other, but it does at this level.

If you are truly dirt poor, perhaps you'd be willing to take a few hours worth of tasks and turn them into QUITE a few hours to save what for many people, if not most, is a truly negligible amount of money. But whether there really are all that many people who earn cash at such a slow rate that firing their results would mean much in terms of money, it is certainly the case that most people would rather not multiply the time spent on low level pottery if they can help it, especially when it's only to save such a very small amount of money.

Hey, I'm a cheapskate too. I actually hated throwing out fetid essences when brewing! (one fishing grub plus one water for a useless result no one with any brains would buy) But...I have my limits.

By the way, on selling poison vials in the bazaar -- I wouldn't bother. I tried for weeks to sell all three kinds. If someone can buy them from you in the bazaar, they can just as easily buy them in POK, which is right next to the bazaar and probably where they ported into first anyway, and where they probably would much rather do their trades than the laggy, limited bazaar. Selling the vials is kind of like selling pods of water, which I've seen some people do, too. It's just too common an item of too little worth, and sold right next to the bazaar anyway. A lot of people will have to go THROUGH POK to get to you in the bazaar -- and if they're in POK, they can buy their vials their off an NPC merchant without zoning twice. Up to you though. Like I said, I've seen some people selling pods of water.

[Calabar]

I think you would have basically two kinds of customers for poison vials in the bazaar. One group would be those who don’t know which darn vendor in PoK sells the vials. I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve circled PoK six or seven times trying to find a particular item and still not found it. This group has likely shrunk in size somewhat now that we can drop to the desktop and check the web without logging out our characters, but I’d expect that they still exist. The second group consists of those who are too lazy to go searching out an NPC vendor when they’re in the bazaar anyway and are willing to pay a higher price for the convince of being in the same zone. But however you look at it, I’d expect the customer base to be rather small. Still, if you set up a vendor anyway and have the room it wouldn’t hurt to try to sell them.

[Liwsa]

If you want to sell your successes (poison vials) sell them cheaper then the vendor does duh.

vendor sells sealed poison vials for 7pp(or there abouts)
I sell mine for 5pp and they sell rather quickly(dinged 188 so no more making them for me).

[slimb hcarvul]

smithing can be raised pretty easily if you take on banded from the get go - it's not entirely expensive, but it works to get above 100 - easier than making loads of metal bits and going from there in my opinion

[FeroceFV]

Frankly, I disagree. Buying rusties and sharpening them is ridiculously easy. Making metal bits requires no non-stacking ingredients. Skillups happen more often with successes than failures, too, so I think that banded from the get go is a waste of time and money.