Possible Cultural Armor Changes

[woodlin]

I have read about cultural armor changes coming in the next expansion, including doing away with TS AAs.

But I have heard rumors about lifting the restrictions on class/deity requirements to make cultural armor for differing classes/deities, can anyone confirm/deny this?

[Roanne]

The only people who can confirm or deny anything about the next expansion are the devs and they may not even have decided for sure on the details yet. Even if they have, they aren't likely to set anything in stone by addressing rumors because they may want to change it again before the expansion's official release

Anyone can already make any augmentation for any other deity. This has never been restricted.

It's also been stated cultural will not see another tier increase in its current state. Whether that means there will be no form of cultural armor in the next expansion or some sort of restricted augmentation system introduced, I'm not sure but I suspect the prior.

I doubt the devs will go back and remove the racial restriction on making cultural armor. I suppose it's not out of the question but probably not before the current armor is deemed 'obsolete' at which point it will also have the 'old content' factor against it.

I just hope the next expansion brings something useful with it to replace the market gap that's going to be left without cultural armor.

[Ngreth Thergn]

Cultural armor is on hiatus and will not be included or changed in the coming expansion. Anything else is just rumors.

And there will be a market for smithing and tailoring in its current form for a long time, so I disagree that it "needs" something to "replace lost sales." That said, there is still something planned but I am saying no more than that.

[Aldier]

And there will be a market for smithing and tailoring in its current form for a long time, so I disagree that it "needs" something to "replace lost sales." That said, there is still something planned but I am saying no more than that.

The "need" for cultural in its current form depends a lot on the size of the stat inflation that comes out in the next expansion. If we see another jump like what was seen in SOF, then current form cultural will likely not have much of a future.

I have no doubts though that whatever you come up with will help the tradeskill community and provide us with some new and exciting challenges as well as quality and useful items that people would actually want to use.

[woodlin]

Cultural Armor

Cultural armor is on hiatus and will not be included or changed in the coming expansion. Anything else is just rumors.

And there will be a market for smithing and tailoring in its current form for a long time, so I disagree that it "needs" something to "replace lost sales." That said, there is still something planned but I am saying no more than that.

Thanks for the info Ngreth, helps me to evaluate how much activity to put into upgrading TS at the current time. The new Defiant Armor drops were worrysome about encroaching on the need/market for Elaborate Cultural Armor items.

[Ngreth Thergn]

It is still possibly going to encroach a bit. It will be interesting to see.

In the end we believe that the purpose for the defiant armor is more important than preserving the integrity of cultural armor, but I think the the stats for elaborate are far enough out of bounds that this will not really be a worry. It is more likely that the 20 and 40 armor will no longer be needed as much.

[Roanne]

I'd say it encroaches more than a bit at the level 70 and below point. Im in the process of upgrading gear on several of my alts in the level 70 range and there is no reason for them to choose elaborate/eminent armor over defiant. The raw stats of defiant are as good or better and the addition of foci swing the favor to defiant armor every time. I suspect within a few weeks as the supply of this armor increases pricing will also make it an easy choice over the time sink to both find parts then make cultural.

Cultural armor still wins the market with exalted and sublime augs for stats, and some pure melee classes may still choose cultural over defiant at level 75 and above. Again, the supply effect of pricing will probably keep defiant armor the choice of many in this range as I expect it will be much more expensive to acquire and take longer to make the cultural augs than to just browse whatever random merchant found defiant armor to sell in the bazaar.

Don't get me wrong here. I'm not against the defiant armor. It has almost no effect on the level 80 mains game and makes the equipping game easier for everyone doing it. Better equipped toons benefit everyone.

I also dont know how much cultural artisans really care about this part of the market. I know I dont make elaborate/eminent armor at all except by special request. The market impact will depend on how many buyers decide to skip the "upgrade" to level 75 and 80 cultural. I suspect this will be most of them with another level increase and gear upgrades less than 6 months away.

[Zopharr]

The "need" for cultural in its current form depends a lot on the size of the stat inflation that comes out in the next expansion. If we see another jump like what was seen in SOF, then current form cultural will likely not have much of a future.

I agree that the level of mudflation in the next expansion could have a big impact on the need for a cultural replacement, but looking at past cultural and other armors:

2002 - Blue Diamond Cultural (PoP armors as well, though not cultural)
2004 - Magnetic armor (more of a sideways move than an upgrade, except for 'charged magnetic')
2005 - "Grandmasters" (Elaborate) armor + Last Bloods
2007 - Elegant

Unless the next expansion features mudflation on a level similar to SoF, I wouldn't expect much until 2009, and would be (very) pleasantly surprised to be proven wrong.

I have no doubts though that whatever you come up with will help the tradeskill community and provide us with some new and exciting challenges as well as quality and useful items that people would actually want to use.

I second your vote of confidence in Ngreth. Would that other developers knew and communicated with their community as much as Ngreth.

[Zopharr]

I also dont know how much cultural artisans really care about this part of the market. I know I dont make elaborate/eminent armor at all except by special request. The market impact will depend on how many buyers decide to skip the "upgrade" to level 75 and 80 cultural. I suspect this will be most of them with another level increase and gear upgrades less than 6 months away.

I'll be curious to see what happens. I'm just the opposite - I haven't made any elegant other than for guildies over the last couple of months, but I keep my trader stocked with elaborate for three races, and sell an average of a suit a week (though I'll do augs only by special request - need more trade slots). Components are also dirt cheap on my server - only 3-4k per combine - so defiant prices will have to be pretty low to compete.

I think elaborate+exalted (what I see most of) will hold up well, but I agree that elaborate+emminent - or the folks selling lower level cultural - may be in for a rough ride.

[KyrosKrane]

When I first saw these armors, I thought it was a mistake. Turns out it was, but only a tiny one (a few of the mod2's were adjusted).

With this new Defiant armor literally being given away, not to mention dropping like candy in trivial zones like LDoN adventures, the market for Elaborate/Eminent and lower armors is pretty much dead. Exalted and Elegant/Sublime still has a chance, but even Exalted is a close call, due to the focus effects on Defiant.

I'm loathe to jump to a knee-jerk reaction, but I think cultural needs to be re-evaluated in terms of competitiveness at the lower levels (1-70, up to elaborate). A tradeskilled, group-oriented type 12 aug with just a focus/melee effect (or, if you deem it necessary to bring the armors up to snuff compared to these new Defiant armors, some minimal stats) would help keep the cultural armors competitive. I'll see if I can put together a spreadsheet comparing the two types of armors.

[Sharrien]

I agree. If the intention is for the new armors to fall slightly below cultural then cultural should have a level appropriate, group attainable way to get foci in the type 12 slot.

It's not just about the market (although I admit I do frequently sell elaborate armors and eminent augs). Looking at the level ranges, the new drops completely outclass cultural because of the lack of a focus. Attaining a focus that fits in cultural armor up to 70 should come from the same amount of effort as getting the new armor, augs should drop (or components to make them) in level appropriate group content.

[Angelsyn]

Everyone always talks about Plate (and yeah, two of my three mains are Plate-wearers)... but what about the other types?

See this thread: http://mboards.eqtraders.com/eq/showthread.php?t=32031
I posted a screenshot comparing Intricate Leather Caps.

[Ngreth Thergn]

I would love to re-evaluate cultural.

To do that the raid augments have to be adjusted like I wanted to in the first time, I.E. the raid augments need to be adjusted down, then the group stuff can be adjusted up.

But the community wants me to leave it alone, so we are stuck with what we have.

[Roanne]

So its the community's fault...

KryosKrane has the right idea.

[Aaneras]

I think that we're talking about very different things here than in the original cultural controversy. The defiant armor doesn't materially impact the high-level game - e.g. groupable 71+ armor, cultural armor with raid augments, and raid 70+ armor have their relative rankings and strengths unmodified.

What has happened is that cultural and sunshard gear has been removed as a viable alternative below level 70. Essentially, there is a single viable gear path now to level 70 - defiant visible and cultural jewelry for the slots where it can be worn.

I'd therefore suggest:

Simplify cultural armor and symbols for the 65 and below armor/symbols.
Remove racial armor restrictions (e.g. 4 flavors - silk, leather, chain, plate) and remove diety/slot symbol restrictions (symbols would be not lore, fit in visible slot 7, and could be made with any relevant tier template). This makes it reasonable to make it. Then ramp up the stats so that it is a competitive choice with tradeoffs vs. defiant - e.g. slightly better raw stats but no focus for the cultural. I wouldn't worry about the raid seals for balancing, since they're just not relevant for the lower armor tiers. And simplifying it might even make it worth crafting and selling. Similar comments apply for sunshard.

Basically, there was an "old" power curve for cultural/sunshard and the defiant gear is much better at lower levels than the old curve. So redefine the low end cultural+sunshard to match the new power curve - without affecting the higher end cultural or the related balance issues.