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  • Possible Cultural Armor Changes

    I have read about cultural armor changes coming in the next expansion, including doing away with TS AAs.

    But I have heard rumors about lifting the restrictions on class/deity requirements to make cultural armor for differing classes/deities, can anyone confirm/deny this?

  • #2
    The only people who can confirm or deny anything about the next expansion are the devs and they may not even have decided for sure on the details yet. Even if they have, they aren't likely to set anything in stone by addressing rumors because they may want to change it again before the expansion's official release

    Anyone can already make any augmentation for any other deity. This has never been restricted.

    It's also been stated cultural will not see another tier increase in its current state. Whether that means there will be no form of cultural armor in the next expansion or some sort of restricted augmentation system introduced, I'm not sure but I suspect the prior.

    I doubt the devs will go back and remove the racial restriction on making cultural armor. I suppose it's not out of the question but probably not before the current armor is deemed 'obsolete' at which point it will also have the 'old content' factor against it.

    I just hope the next expansion brings something useful with it to replace the market gap that's going to be left without cultural armor.
    Roanne LeFaye
    Warrior Barbarian of the Tribunal
    Outsider Domination
    The Seventh Hammer
    2100 Club + 300 melee Research

    Comment


    • #3
      Cultural armor is on hiatus and will not be included or changed in the coming expansion. Anything else is just rumors.

      And there will be a market for smithing and tailoring in its current form for a long time, so I disagree that it "needs" something to "replace lost sales." That said, there is still something planned but I am saying no more than that.
      Ngreth Thergn

      Ngreth nice Ogre. Ngreth not eat you. Well.... Ngreth not eat you if you still wiggle!
      Grandmaster Smith 250
      Master Tailor 200
      Ogres not dumb - we not lose entire city to froggies

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Ngreth Thergn View Post
        And there will be a market for smithing and tailoring in its current form for a long time, so I disagree that it "needs" something to "replace lost sales." That said, there is still something planned but I am saying no more than that.
        The "need" for cultural in its current form depends a lot on the size of the stat inflation that comes out in the next expansion. If we see another jump like what was seen in SOF, then current form cultural will likely not have much of a future.

        I have no doubts though that whatever you come up with will help the tradeskill community and provide us with some new and exciting challenges as well as quality and useful items that people would actually want to use.
        Shawlweaver Sphynx on Cazic Thule
        Master Artisan Aldier on Cazic Thule

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        • #5
          Cultural Armor

          Originally posted by Ngreth Thergn View Post
          Cultural armor is on hiatus and will not be included or changed in the coming expansion. Anything else is just rumors.

          And there will be a market for smithing and tailoring in its current form for a long time, so I disagree that it "needs" something to "replace lost sales." That said, there is still something planned but I am saying no more than that.
          Thanks for the info Ngreth, helps me to evaluate how much activity to put into upgrading TS at the current time. The new Defiant Armor drops were worrysome about encroaching on the need/market for Elaborate Cultural Armor items.

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          • #6
            It is still possibly going to encroach a bit. It will be interesting to see.

            In the end we believe that the purpose for the defiant armor is more important than preserving the integrity of cultural armor, but I think the the stats for elaborate are far enough out of bounds that this will not really be a worry. It is more likely that the 20 and 40 armor will no longer be needed as much.
            Ngreth Thergn

            Ngreth nice Ogre. Ngreth not eat you. Well.... Ngreth not eat you if you still wiggle!
            Grandmaster Smith 250
            Master Tailor 200
            Ogres not dumb - we not lose entire city to froggies

            Comment


            • #7
              I'd say it encroaches more than a bit at the level 70 and below point. Im in the process of upgrading gear on several of my alts in the level 70 range and there is no reason for them to choose elaborate/eminent armor over defiant. The raw stats of defiant are as good or better and the addition of foci swing the favor to defiant armor every time. I suspect within a few weeks as the supply of this armor increases pricing will also make it an easy choice over the time sink to both find parts then make cultural.

              Cultural armor still wins the market with exalted and sublime augs for stats, and some pure melee classes may still choose cultural over defiant at level 75 and above. Again, the supply effect of pricing will probably keep defiant armor the choice of many in this range as I expect it will be much more expensive to acquire and take longer to make the cultural augs than to just browse whatever random merchant found defiant armor to sell in the bazaar.

              Don't get me wrong here. I'm not against the defiant armor. It has almost no effect on the level 80 mains game and makes the equipping game easier for everyone doing it. Better equipped toons benefit everyone.

              I also dont know how much cultural artisans really care about this part of the market. I know I dont make elaborate/eminent armor at all except by special request. The market impact will depend on how many buyers decide to skip the "upgrade" to level 75 and 80 cultural. I suspect this will be most of them with another level increase and gear upgrades less than 6 months away.
              Roanne LeFaye
              Warrior Barbarian of the Tribunal
              Outsider Domination
              The Seventh Hammer
              2100 Club + 300 melee Research

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Aldier View Post
                The "need" for cultural in its current form depends a lot on the size of the stat inflation that comes out in the next expansion. If we see another jump like what was seen in SOF, then current form cultural will likely not have much of a future.
                I agree that the level of mudflation in the next expansion could have a big impact on the need for a cultural replacement, but looking at past cultural and other armors:

                2002 - Blue Diamond Cultural (PoP armors as well, though not cultural)
                2004 - Magnetic armor (more of a sideways move than an upgrade, except for 'charged magnetic')
                2005 - "Grandmasters" (Elaborate) armor + Last Bloods
                2007 - Elegant

                Unless the next expansion features mudflation on a level similar to SoF, I wouldn't expect much until 2009, and would be (very) pleasantly surprised to be proven wrong.

                Originally posted by Aldier View Post
                I have no doubts though that whatever you come up with will help the tradeskill community and provide us with some new and exciting challenges as well as quality and useful items that people would actually want to use.
                I second your vote of confidence in Ngreth. Would that other developers knew and communicated with their community as much as Ngreth.
                Garshok
                95th Dreadlord, Povar-Quellious, 300 Ogre Grand Master Smith, 300 all skills
                (glad the climb to 300 is finally over)

                Zopharr
                95th Priest of Brell, Povar-Quellious, 300 Dwarven Grand Master Smith, 300 all skills
                (holds his 15% smithing trophy in his off hand and pretends to dual-wield - and hopes the Holy Dirt of Brell he's carried for twelve years will have a use in the new expansion)

                Rishathra
                95th Shaman of Inny, Povar-Quellious, 300 Troll Grand Master Smith
                (got so tired of looking for a troll smith for armor that I made one)

                Marzanna
                95th Necromancer, Povar-Quellious, 300 Tinker - Tailor
                (still working on Solder, Spy)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Roanne View Post
                  I also dont know how much cultural artisans really care about this part of the market. I know I dont make elaborate/eminent armor at all except by special request. The market impact will depend on how many buyers decide to skip the "upgrade" to level 75 and 80 cultural. I suspect this will be most of them with another level increase and gear upgrades less than 6 months away.
                  I'll be curious to see what happens. I'm just the opposite - I haven't made any elegant other than for guildies over the last couple of months, but I keep my trader stocked with elaborate for three races, and sell an average of a suit a week (though I'll do augs only by special request - need more trade slots). Components are also dirt cheap on my server - only 3-4k per combine - so defiant prices will have to be pretty low to compete.

                  I think elaborate+exalted (what I see most of) will hold up well, but I agree that elaborate+emminent - or the folks selling lower level cultural - may be in for a rough ride.
                  Garshok
                  95th Dreadlord, Povar-Quellious, 300 Ogre Grand Master Smith, 300 all skills
                  (glad the climb to 300 is finally over)

                  Zopharr
                  95th Priest of Brell, Povar-Quellious, 300 Dwarven Grand Master Smith, 300 all skills
                  (holds his 15% smithing trophy in his off hand and pretends to dual-wield - and hopes the Holy Dirt of Brell he's carried for twelve years will have a use in the new expansion)

                  Rishathra
                  95th Shaman of Inny, Povar-Quellious, 300 Troll Grand Master Smith
                  (got so tired of looking for a troll smith for armor that I made one)

                  Marzanna
                  95th Necromancer, Povar-Quellious, 300 Tinker - Tailor
                  (still working on Solder, Spy)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    When I first saw these armors, I thought it was a mistake. Turns out it was, but only a tiny one (a few of the mod2's were adjusted).

                    With this new Defiant armor literally being given away, not to mention dropping like candy in trivial zones like LDoN adventures, the market for Elaborate/Eminent and lower armors is pretty much dead. Exalted and Elegant/Sublime still has a chance, but even Exalted is a close call, due to the focus effects on Defiant.

                    I'm loathe to jump to a knee-jerk reaction, but I think cultural needs to be re-evaluated in terms of competitiveness at the lower levels (1-70, up to elaborate). A tradeskilled, group-oriented type 12 aug with just a focus/melee effect (or, if you deem it necessary to bring the armors up to snuff compared to these new Defiant armors, some minimal stats) would help keep the cultural armors competitive. I'll see if I can put together a spreadsheet comparing the two types of armors.
                    Sir KyrosKrane Sylvanblade
                    Master Artisan (300 + GM Trophy in all) of Luclin (Veeshan)
                    Master Fisherman (200) and possibly Drunk (2xx + 20%), not sober enough to tell!
                    Lightbringer, Redeemer, and Valiant servant of Erollisi Marr

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                    • #11
                      I agree. If the intention is for the new armors to fall slightly below cultural then cultural should have a level appropriate, group attainable way to get foci in the type 12 slot.

                      It's not just about the market (although I admit I do frequently sell elaborate armors and eminent augs). Looking at the level ranges, the new drops completely outclass cultural because of the lack of a focus. Attaining a focus that fits in cultural armor up to 70 should come from the same amount of effort as getting the new armor, augs should drop (or components to make them) in level appropriate group content.
                      Savage Spirit Sharrien Dreamstalker the Kraftin Kitty, Master Artisan
                      Primal Elementalist Ravingronn Blazewarden, Master Artisan, Master Researcher
                      Celestial Navigators, Maelin Starpyre

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                      • #12
                        Everyone always talks about Plate (and yeah, two of my three mains are Plate-wearers)... but what about the other types?

                        See this thread: http://mboards.eqtraders.com/eq/showthread.php?t=32031
                        I posted a screenshot comparing Intricate Leather Caps.
                        Angelsyn Whitewings, Cleric of Tunare for 66! Seasons.
                        Grandmistress Smith - 300, Grandmistress Tailor - 300, Potter - 300, Jeweler - 300, Brewer - 200, Baker - 200, Fletcher - 200, Fisherwoman - 169
                        Keyne Falconer, Paladin of Erollisi Marr for 66 Seasons.
                        Grandmistress Baker - 300, Grandmistress Blacksmith - 300, Potter - 200, Brewer - 139, Tailor - 91

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                        • #13
                          I would love to re-evaluate cultural.

                          To do that the raid augments have to be adjusted like I wanted to in the first time, I.E. the raid augments need to be adjusted down, then the group stuff can be adjusted up.

                          But the community wants me to leave it alone, so we are stuck with what we have.
                          Ngreth Thergn

                          Ngreth nice Ogre. Ngreth not eat you. Well.... Ngreth not eat you if you still wiggle!
                          Grandmaster Smith 250
                          Master Tailor 200
                          Ogres not dumb - we not lose entire city to froggies

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            So its the community's fault...

                            KryosKrane has the right idea.
                            Roanne LeFaye
                            Warrior Barbarian of the Tribunal
                            Outsider Domination
                            The Seventh Hammer
                            2100 Club + 300 melee Research

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I think that we're talking about very different things here than in the original cultural controversy. The defiant armor doesn't materially impact the high-level game - e.g. groupable 71+ armor, cultural armor with raid augments, and raid 70+ armor have their relative rankings and strengths unmodified.

                              What has happened is that cultural and sunshard gear has been removed as a viable alternative below level 70. Essentially, there is a single viable gear path now to level 70 - defiant visible and cultural jewelry for the slots where it can be worn.

                              I'd therefore suggest:

                              Simplify cultural armor and symbols for the 65 and below armor/symbols.
                              Remove racial armor restrictions (e.g. 4 flavors - silk, leather, chain, plate) and remove diety/slot symbol restrictions (symbols would be not lore, fit in visible slot 7, and could be made with any relevant tier template). This makes it reasonable to make it. Then ramp up the stats so that it is a competitive choice with tradeoffs vs. defiant - e.g. slightly better raw stats but no focus for the cultural. I wouldn't worry about the raid seals for balancing, since they're just not relevant for the lower armor tiers. And simplifying it might even make it worth crafting and selling. Similar comments apply for sunshard.

                              Basically, there was an "old" power curve for cultural/sunshard and the defiant gear is much better at lower levels than the old curve. So redefine the low end cultural+sunshard to match the new power curve - without affecting the higher end cultural or the related balance issues.

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