Upcoming Cultural Changes - Next Full Patch (Estimated End of September)

[Ngreth Thergn]

Just to clarify, by seals you mean specifically the Last Blood augments?

It seems that the armor itself is tuned fairly well with regards to AC and should receive a decent boost going from L70 -> L80.

TY again for keeping us informed, Ngreth.

-Zaosha

Specifically the ones coming after the LB augments, since the LB augments are seeing no change. But the equivalent yeah.

[Aldier]

So the current AAAA will be removed and replaced by 3 containers varying based on the seals? Will the AAAA in its current form still work for any level of seal or at least be converted to the higher end versions?

[Zendaken]

sorta what she said

There are 3 NEW ones over the existing on..

1 new for chronal/discordant
the existing one (truly existing... no changing anything whatsoever) for bazu/last blood
2 new ones for some higher level ones coming out.

From farther up the thread. Note that he says "the existing one" "no[t] changing anything whatsoever".

[Roanne]

So the current AAAA will be removed and replaced by 3 containers varying based on the seals? Will the AAAA in its current form still work for any level of seal or at least be converted to the higher end versions?

My guess is that it definately wont be changed. That would be almost the worst decision in a long time (right behind LoN) given the duplication exploit of AAAAs that was badly handeled and destroyed the AAAA market.

[Aldier]

Not sure how I missed that.

Also, I am curious as to what you could change to the AAAA to make it harder. I thought most of the subcombines already were 10 component recipes as well as the final combine is 10 components.

[Ngreth Thergn]

Not sure how I missed that.

Also, I am curious as to what you could change to the AAAA to make it harder. I thought most of the subcombines already were 10 component recipes as well as the final combine is 10 components.

It is not harder. It is a different price point. (the lower one for chronal/discordant is easier because a 5 item drop is removed)

[Aldier]

It is not harder. It is a different price point. (the lower one for chronal/discordant is easier because a 5 item drop is removed)

So you are going to be adding expensive vendor bought components for the higher end boxes. I still do not see where in the recipe there is room to add pricier components until the change to allow for more than 10 component recipes goes in, if it ever does.

I think that is a great idea for the Chronal and Discordant, now if I could just find something that a mid 60s raid type force could take. Zomm is the only one I can think of that drops Chronal/Discordant aug and he is tough for that level range I think.

[Catweazel]

All it would take is a "Meldrathite" Gearbox replacing the "Scrindite" Gearbox (for example) and the sky is the limit in terms of cost.

One Meldrathite Gearbox could require subcombines, or could use 5 clockwork gnome bolts or 5 darkhollow burrin bundles....or something new and equally fiendish.

[Kemie Dreamshadow]

I think I'm getting distressed now, after reading through some of the posts in the SoE site version of this thread.

I've been tradeskilling for a long time now, long enough that I can remember some of the concerns voiced when Planes of Power came along. Many felt tradeskilling should not be dependent on the "experience" level of your character or require your character being the highest level in order to do the best job they could with tradeskills. There are still players who are far more comfortable tradeskilling than fighting, but with all these new "rules" will tradeskilling remain a viable way to play the game?

With PoP, the solution to enable lower level characters to continue to tradeskill using the higher components was that drops could be sold to and purchased from vendors. This worked fairly well until DoN cultural came along, when all of a sudden one could not make the symbols without the character reaching a certain level and completing a level related quest. "Level" was also required to obtain the mastery AA's that made success more likely and even higher levels to obtain Salvage.

At least drops were still likely to be found on vendors....

With TBS, sunshard dust, pebbles and ores became available as an alternate skillup route in several trades. With a very low sale value to vendors, I routinely see very little of the ore on vendors, and the drop rate is slow enough that as a "gimp" soloist (I don't routinely group) I am very, very lucky to see one ore in several nights of play. This means I have to rely on friends to save up their ores for me, or pay huge (for me) prices in the bazaar to scalpers. Since my main source of income was AAAA's (made by my poor level 39 tinker) I've watched my plat go steadily down lately, and I simply can't afford to pay in the neighborhood of 1k per ore while I try to squeeze the last couple of points in my tailoring (and the tinkering). It's agonizing.

So now with the upcoming changes, I read that not only does SoE intend for the cultural drops to have no vendor value, but also the drops will come from mobs of appropriate levels. Where does this leave the lower level tradeskiller who doesn't have deep pockets?

From what I've seen on the occasions I do group, many people don't even bother to check mobs for loot unless they need something for a particular task or quest. Those who do meticulously check mobs often leave items behind that have no sale value to vendors, unless they routinely place tradeskillable items on bazaar traders for massive profits.

Sorry I know I'm getting pretty long-winded here, but like I said at the start, I'm distressed. Please, Ngreth, argue for at least a nominally small vendor sale price similar to the sunshard example for cultural drops. Not all of us are aggressively active fighting players with a lot of plat to throw around!

Kemie

[Catweazel]

It might be interesting to explore the EQ2 concept of a Tradeskill only character who can progress with levels and experience through non-combat methods. On the surface it sounds pretty complex in terms of mechanics (code) within the existing EQ - however - there have been a number of innovative changes recently.

Tradeskill quests, impressions, LON trivial loot code and i am sure some other mechanisms could all be used to "level" a tradeskill character. It would be radical and time consuming and require a distinct policy shift within SOE I would guess.

[Zopharr]

So now with the upcoming changes, I read that not only does SoE intend for the cultural drops to have no vendor value, but also the drops will come from mobs of appropriate levels. Where does this leave the lower level tradeskiller who doesn't have deep pockets?

-->snip<--
Please, Ngreth, argue for at least a nominally small vendor sale price similar to the sunshard example for cultural drops. Not all of us are aggressively active fighting players with a lot of plat to throw around!

Kemie

I agree - add in a vendor value for the TS drops.

Especially with server populations stagnant and the number of traders [read: suppliers] dwindling (averaging 270 on Quellious vice 450+ a year or two ago), it is far easier now for scalpers to try and corner markets than previously. Some vendor value of on a par with velium or the like would help ameliorate it somewhat.

Garshok

[Ngreth Thergn]

I can try.

It is a decree from my direct boss though, and he seems fairly adamant about it. He really wants it to be a player market, not an NPC market.

[Xenephex]

I hate to buck the trend, but I believe that this will end up working out reasonably well, even for fairly low level players. Stuff from mobs in the 40's will allow you to skill up close to 200 in both tailoring and smithing and the stuff becomes more and more common the farther down you go.

Combine that with the fact that the template (skill-up) combines are so incredibly easy and relatively cheap to do, and I think you will find a ready market for low level farmers at almost any level. I have kind of calculated the time involved and if I was simply farming all by myself, then I would say it is still probably more time efficient to go farm stuff for EVB's than it is to farm new cultural drops at the same level (rubicite / Indium).

But... if I could walk into the bazaar and buy stacks of the stuff at even 20 or 30 plat each, it is more than worth it. And it's the same thing with almost anything above banded level for smithing, and probably even more so for tailoring drops.

I really think these new drops will become the 'new' Spider silk or leather padding in terms of farmable and sellable tradeskill components. I was on the vendor side of that market back when I started in EQ and I look forward to seeing what these drops may do to bring some new life to the TS component economy.

[Flehmen]

Hmm, what is the assumed rate of pickup(ie. how much is expected to be picked up by PCs) and how is it justified?
I've occasionally gone around behind an experience group and cleaned up the corpses(they were very appriciative ) I've seen anything that might require the least little time or effort to sell, or the stuff that is under 100pp to a vendor get left behind. It simple isn't worth the time and effort to most XP groups to pick stuff up. I can't see any TS item that isn't going way high in the baz... in other words either best gear in the game or from the freshest expansion... being picked up.

Anyhow, some arguements for your boss... oh, you might want to bring your club too.

[Catweazel]

I can't see any TS item that isn't going way high in the baz... in other words either best gear in the game or from the freshest expansion... being picked up.

If we assume that the sunshard ore++ equivalents are for the best gear in the game, then by example they will achieve a market value driven by the player economy in the bazaar, and they will not be cheap.

The exact same argument should apply to lesser tiers of dropped TS components, as it does today with Sunshard Dust and Pebbles.

The exact same argument also applies to parchments and papers for Research.

In any LFG or guild experience group since these items were introduced we have picked up anything without a "quest" label and then gone straight to the Bazaar buyers to sell our "loot". If we have Tradeskillers in the group they are offered the items at the going buyer rate. Everything is sold and split. The items then move from the Buyers to the Traders. Anything remaining is dumped off at the NPC vendors or destroyed.

The only drawback I can see from zero NPC vendor value is that Vendor Mining might suffer. There will still presumably be existing tradeskill items on vendors to mine if people enjoy that as a pastime.

If something on a corpse has no value to anyone and is "left behind" I fail to see where there is an issue? If there are not sufficient buyers for an item, and it is something you want, I guess you will be setting up a buyer to take advantage of that mini-game opportunity. I know in the early days of Sunshards, I was buying Ore at 200pp and either using it or selling it at a profit.