Artisan Charm

[Maevenniia]

lol, I'd pay just to see someone USE that clicky...

Or a "summon winged boar" clicky (just so when someone says "when pigs fly" I can click it! LOL)

[Wycca]

Quote---------------------------------------------------
And Finally... the items guys make the final choices... the Only reason it is staying as good as it is... is because there ARE choices for people to make. This item has potentially the best base STATS in the game for a charm... but, because it *IS* missing the combat stats, it is not the best choice for everyone... It makes people CHOOSE, and in the end we want that.
---------------------------------------------------------

/Agree
Do people really want a single item to have everything??? What that will mean is every player in the game will be trying to get the same item. Then shortly after that, everyone will have the same item. Then we will be just like Guildwars!

Look what happened with the POP tradeskill earing. It turned into the item everyone wanted. People bought their way through tradeskills simply to get that one item. It no longer rewarded the people that loved tradeskills (like the shawl quest did), it also rewarded those with money, or anyone in a high lev guild with pots of cash to fund their members.

If combat effects were added, and maybe a spell shield, Oh, and a summon flying monkeys from my butt clicky....... then every player in the game is going to be powerskilling. Everytime a blue diamond drops there will be 16 people /rand'ing for it. Baz prices on tradeskill skillup items would be more insane than they are now. Queues at the Oven in POK, 5 people long!!!!

Oh the humanity!!!

There was lucky to be 4 or 5 people in most guilds who bothered with Aid Grimel (and most of them were already in tradeskills decently), and after PoTime items started filtering out...far less (or none except those who already were 250).

You're also unlikely to create an item good enough that people will simply pick up tradeskills to do it. At best, you're going to get a handful of people who already had decent tradeskills (or at least a healthy interest) decide to persue it. Is that such a bad thing, or do you think tradeskills are only for the handful a server who wish to preserve their income/elite status/etc?

I'm suprised you mentioned the shawl quest also, I know of more people who did that at the time...than almost any other quest in the game that wasn't required for progression. I recall on Vazaelle and on The Nameless that at the time, every single person who could use it was pretty much working on it- guilds nightly were doing parts of it. I don't see it as a shining example of tradeskill quests. I finished it on 2 alts during velious - at a time when I utterly despised tradeskills.

As far as blowing plat to max tradeskills...do you really think thats possible for all of them? The ones that it is possible for...how is that different from how anyone skills up- because on those tradeskills everything is pretty much buyable anyways from merchants. It just seems like a panic statement that likes to get thrown around.

I don't think you're magically going to see people competing with you on group drops (and if they do- so what? theyre in the group earning it, I'm not sure how its magically yours by right of tradeskilling). They're going to be farming super-trivial content in luclin, pop, velious, etc for skillups on Tailoring, Fletching, Smithing.

Okay, so I did find one problem. The price on celestial essence may very well skyrocket as people plow through brewing and pottery.

I just don't think its going to happen, yet I keep hearing it. This is of course, assuming it is a process that is as involving as Aid Grimel/Trophies, plus 300 in all, to get something thats *on par* with the highest raid charm available. Currently, the artisan charm isn't on par. It's nice, but its not going to be 600hp augged, with combat effects/etc. As a note, I'm wanting an Aid Gimel type upgrade to the Artisan Charm in the next expansion, not any upgrades to the current charm (its fine as-is imo).

[Dutchy]

I'm very happy with the Artisan Charm myself the way it currently is. Finally a quest I can use my tradeskills for that results into something usefull. (I never did the shawl quest because it was useless for melees... never did the Aid Grimel because I dislike raiding).
A charm that we can get up to 400hp/mana/end, great sidestats, AC and resists with single groupable content is just amazing. We've never been able to craft anything this good =)
I like the fact that the charm itself is based on tradeskills only and not on raid content and I hope it stays that way. I think it should reflect a player's skills rather than the content he or she is doing.
It might not be on par with the best raid charms available, but why should it be? You can just pick the charm you like best. Same way you filled the other 20 gearslots with raidgear instead of tradeskilled gear.

[Kibber]

But it is certainly on par with the Arena charm. A decent group of people can do that from scratch to finish in a day of play, having fun as well

Its not fun getting those last skillups in fletching say, even though you maxed the trophy at 295, and are now using over 100+ combines for one skillup to get to 300. That one skillup took a heck of alot more time to forage and kill stuff for than it would take to get the arena charm.

How many people do you really think would decide to "powerskill" if they realised they had to have 250, 275 or 300 in all skills to get the bonus?

Kibber

[KyrosKrane]

There was lucky to be 4 or 5 people in most guilds who bothered with Aid Grimel (and most of them were already in tradeskills decently), and after PoTime items started filtering out...far less (or none except those who already were 250).

You're also unlikely to create an item good enough that people will simply pick up tradeskills to do it.

I don't think you were playing when Aid Grimel came out -- or at least, I doubt you were tradeskilling. The Aid Grimel earring had a dramatic effect on tradeskills that lasted well into GoD. People with money would buy out every single component in the bazaar that they could use. This caused a massive spike in prices for pretty much anything that can be used to raise tradeskills. On the flip side of the coin, the results of these massive skillup sessions were dumped back on the market, usually at a huge loss, just to clear up inventory space. Thus, tradeskillers who couldn't afford to eat the loss were essentially squeezed out of the market on both ends. The amount of complaining on these boards was phenomenal.

I also think you're underestimating how good the Aid Grimel earring actually is. I have access to loot from Anguish, and my guild just started working on Demiplane of Blood. I still wear my Aid Grimel earring, simply because I've yet to see anything good enough to make me upgrade. (I did see a nice earring in Demi that was worth it, I think, but that was the first drop in a LONG time that I seriously considered.) The AC and resists on Aid Grimel are insanely good; the only problem is a lack of hp compared to current content. I'm willing to sacrifice some hp for the other benefits of the earring -- not to mention the pride of wearing something I effectively made myself.

[Queletan]

I'm inclined to agree with Kryos, however I do have to include a caveat to that. I grew up on Rallos Zek, which had Item loot in pvp for quite some time (If I recall correctly it was changed after LDON and Augments made droppable armor nodrop). As such when Vellious came out a large portion of the population worked on the Shawl (and ring) quests, so alot of people already had their skills up to a reasonable level. When the Aid Grimel quest was discovered, it wasn't that much of a stretch for the majority of them to level their skills up (and again not only was it one of the better earrings pre-time, it was also No-Drop).

That being said though, as was mentioned there is a substantial difference between leveling skills to 220 and leveling them to 300.

Personally, I'm happy as a clam with the charm. With a nearly maxed LDON aug and the Wanderlust aug at stage 16 (need to level for the rest of it ) it is by far the best item I own (and probably will for a while)

Q

[Wycca]

I don't think you were playing when Aid Grimel came out -- or at least, I doubt you were tradeskilling. The Aid Grimel earring had a dramatic effect on tradeskills that lasted well into GoD. People with money would buy out every single component in the bazaar that they could use. This caused a massive spike in prices for pretty much anything that can be used to raise tradeskills. On the flip side of the coin, the results of these massive skillup sessions were dumped back on the market, usually at a huge loss, just to clear up inventory space. Thus, tradeskillers who couldn't afford to eat the loss were essentially squeezed out of the market on both ends. The amount of complaining on these boards was phenomenal.

I also think you're underestimating how good the Aid Grimel earring actually is. I have access to loot from Anguish, and my guild just started working on Demiplane of Blood. I still wear my Aid Grimel earring, simply because I've yet to see anything good enough to make me upgrade. (I did see a nice earring in Demi that was worth it, I think, but that was the first drop in a LONG time that I seriously considered.) The AC and resists on Aid Grimel are insanely good; the only problem is a lack of hp compared to current content. I'm willing to sacrifice some hp for the other benefits of the earring -- not to mention the pride of wearing something I effectively made myself.

Actually I was playing, and was in EP's when PoP was still current. My tradeskills at the time was something like - 150 tailoring, 200 brewing. My cleric on the other hand was around 150-200 in everything (I can't recall finishing the final ear, but I do believe I got the next to last - destroyed it years ago though when I got time ears).

I'd disagree with your ear assessment, it was nice, but the main advantage for our people who got it was that they didn't have to spend dkp on something. Most of us (myself included on both toons) ended up going for the better time earrings (which were better than the final Aid Gimel ear by a fair amount- innies ear, spell haste ear, quarm ear, etc).

You may be right on the price of components back then, but I'm not sure its the same nowadays. 1st, the skillup requirements, recipies available, and content it came from was significantly different for aid gimel, vs today. Achieving 300 is alot different than getting high enough for Gimel. The reason I didn't really notice components back then was because I generally either merchant bought, or farmed older/trivial content for skillup parts. Likewise, PoP was the first expansion to really introduce a TON of highly-desirable tradeskill parts. Everyone wanted in on that cash market (including alot of tradeskillers who wern't max), and everyone wanted the final products. To blame it all on Aid Gimel, I think is erronous.

Regardless, its ancient history now, and I think results today, especially with the more intelligent tradeskill design and more intelligent quest design, would not include a massive spikeing.

[Catweazel]

Artisan Charm v2.0

Some ideas reading this thread that would interest me for the future:

A progression quest for augments for the Artisan Charm. This could be as simple or as complicated as the time available to introduce something of value. Neither the SlipGear or Wanderlust augments are particularly difficult to max out, perhaps a few hours at most.

How about a quest arc within each Tradeskill to create something of equivalence to a Wanderlust aug? If the non-holy seven are included, then Tinkers, Rogues, Alchemists and Researchers can add one of these types of augs to the Artisan Charm. As the quest progresses, the aug adds HP, AC, stats and resists, but at the end, adds something unique to Tradeskillers.

A "super" aug which results from completing each individual TS aug that adds Tradeskill effects (random salvage, % bonus to skill, produce double items etc).

A Raiders version of a Tradeskill aug which adds combat effects as the aug progresses from looted non-drop Raid boss (or 1 group named) items.

[Errun]

I am a little confused about the actual calculation for actual values on the charm... currently i have

Baking 300
Blacksmithing 181
Brewing 227
Fletching 202
Jewellery 2
Pottery 200
Tailoring 83

Total 1195

going by your formula.. that would mean (1195-700)/1400 = 35% power or 79hp. The actual value is 43% power or 96hp.

So is the formula incorrect?

Use Daesean's Magelo to confirm actual tradeskill totals and charm value.

[KyrosKrane]

I think I see it. Each subtraction is capped at 0, so your JC and Tailoring are basically ignored.

Here's how it works. For each tradeskill, subtract 100 from your skill. If that number is below zero, use zero instead. Add those numbers up then divide by 1400, and that gives you the final result.

So for example, take Baking and Tailoring. For baking, 300 - 100 = 200, so you use that. For tailoring, 83 - 100 = -17, so you use 0 instead.

In your case, this gives roughly 43.6%, which rounds down to the 43% you saw.

[Baldary]

Thus, tradeskillers who couldn't afford to eat the loss were essentially squeezed out of the market on both ends.

This may have been true for those people that were trying to buy their way up. The people that farmed all of their components were not affected.

Personally, I made a ton of plat farming components and selling them to the people skilling up and when I started skilling up myself, I would buy components when the selling price suited me. If I felt it was too high, I would just go out and farm stuff.

Baldary

[Paloverde]

The short story of my Artisan Charm:

I skilled pottery to 262 spending thousands of pp on steins and idols only to destroy them.

With the help of friends, I collected the materials for the Artisan Clay. Assisted by an equipped Geerlok, I made the clay on the first combine.

I created the unfired charm on the first combine.

I failed the firing on the first combine but "salvage" brought back the unfired charm (and not the firing sheet). I succeeded on the second attempt.

I celebrated!