What are all of the tools?

[Daabu]

That's still coding, PLUS adding a new NPC and a new quest.

This is something Ngreth wants to do for us, not something the Powers That Be are asking him to do. Therefore, the chance of getting a programmer with those sorts of priveleges in the Source Control system to help would be pretty low.

[Telorea]

Please don't take this the wrong way, because we all appreciate that you are trying hard to find a solution for tools - but:

Number One Priority: Please, please, please do not implement a solution that involves: (a) summoning bags/containers of any kind; or; (b) summons large quantities (more than 2 or 3 items) of tools.

All real tradeskillers have big problems with pack and bank space, so anything that takes a lot of pack-space (especially bags) would be extremely inconvienient.

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Something that should be fairly easy to do and would help most tradeskillers enormously would be to simply to make all recipes that use tools return all tools before the result of the combine to returned (you would not believe how much this simple change would help so many people)

[Daabu]

I disagree, summoning bags would be just fine with me.

Most tradeskillers I know keep at least one bag slot available for unpacking collapsable kits. It shouldnt be that big of an inconvenience to summon the bag. I'd rather sit and *destroy* 5 tools I don't need (which takes me 10seconds) than have 20 slots permanently residing in my bank or inventory.

[Queletan]

Summoned bags would be fine with me too. 2 minute delay or so so you can't abuse it for plat if they're that worried, but its short enough you can get something you forgot you needed. I always keep one slot free, so I can carry a JC kit/fletching kit/mixing bowl/etc... Just summon the bag, pull out the things I need, and destroy the bag with the rest inside, easy enough.

Sure as heck beat having to run around collecting stuff to make the bread tin or skinning knife I lost somewhere

Q

[andyhre]

After having read this through, what is the objection to making the tools attuneable? They are not actually equipped, so they would never get "attuned" -- thus they could still be passed through the shared bank or handed out as presents or sold in the bazaar. But with this one flag, you make them all non-macro-exploitable.

Maybe I missed the reason why this wouldn't work, and if so, I apologize.

[Twistagain]

Now why didn't I think of that??

[Daabu]

My guess is that attuneable item flags have no cost associated with them, and therefore cannot be sold by a vendor

[Bobaten]

I don't think it matters in terms of what vendors can sell, I mean, they sell plenty of no drop items (LoY ribbons for example), they just won't buy them back.

[Ngreth Thergn]

The concern brought up currently by Maddoc is that it could "ruin" the player market of selling tools.

A player that can make infinite tools and sell them on the market will ruin the market.

While I don't think there is much of a market, and players just tend to make their own tools, I do see the point.

Currently this idea is mostly on hold. But it is not gone.

Overall we do plan on addressing all tradeskills in time. Some will get drastic changes like Alchemy and Spell research did. Some will be mostly a re-organization of trivials. While we do this, we will look into the tools that are used and make some adjustments. When these adjustments are made, we will implement the solution I was looking too where it is appropriate.

I am looking at something stop gap, but it will leave some skills with little change at this time.

[andyhre]

Also, how about making the tools lore? It's really hard to flood the market with lore stuff. I can see some issues with trying to summon something that's lore if you have it already, but I think once people know what they can summon, they won't have to have the item in stock anymore.

[Gaell Stormracer]

I really don't think there's any sort of "market" for tools that is viable in any way, simply because they are never used up in the normal run of events, and the tools are generally of a very low level of trivial.

Changing the tools to LORE wouldn't work, because that would also affect all the existing ones, and would cause all sorts of problems if you happened to have 2 files for example, 1 in the bank and 1 in a bag -- you would not be able to loot the bag off your corpse with the file until you went back to the bank and destroyed the other.

[Telorea]

I really don't think there's any sort of "market" for tools that is viable in any way, simply because they are never used up in the normal run of events, and the tools are generally of a very low level of trivial.

Gem Cutters and Corking Devices are still major bazaar items for those people who farm the drops and make them.

Ice Cream Churns also, although strictly speaking they are not tools.

People also still regularly auction to buy Pie Tins, non-stick frying pans and other tools that are made with a different tradeskill from the one they are used by.

[Gaell Stormracer]

I bet Gem Cutter and Corking Device were never "in scope" for this thing anyway - as you say, the Ice Cream Churn isn't a tool.

I've not seen anyone auction to buy pie tins etc in the last 2 years at least...

/shrug

[Ti Giel]

Consumed. A quill is an ingredient.



Main tools I always keep are:
Skinning Knife
File
Filleting Knife
Non-stick Fry Pan
Dairy Spoon

[Sukrasisx]

Here's an idea: instead of messing with tools or creating an entirely new set of tools, why not change the summoning item to have long recast timer? ie 1 bag of tool for each tradeskill, max 1 per 3 hours summon timer. That should make the possible exploit useless.

Eek! Some of us actually summon the bags to, you know, carry stuff. A 3-hour recast means summoning bags for loot becomes infeasible; the first bag could easily fill up long before you're able to summon another.

Even a 3-minute recast timer would make it awkward when I'm setting out on a tradeskill session that I know will involve digging lots of ingredients out of the bank and/or vendors. I often start by summoning bags to fill out my slots.