Couldn't find info

[Calrain]

Tried using a search on the DoN tradeskill quests about whether once you've completed the Journeyman/Expert/Master/Grandmaster quests to obtain the symbol book, does that book get 'used' up when you combine to get your patterns and stuff like the ancestral book? Or is it permanent?

Calrain Wolfpacer

[Twistagain]

It has multiple uses (10, I think), but eventually gets used up.

[Calrain]

?

So for example you'd have to do the entire killing section again in whatever godforsaken zone you need to go to?

That seems a little much, killing 120 and getting the loot on those was more than a time sink, it took me months convincing guildies to go on that many lower XP missions. (half-elf, spiders)

Calrain Wolfpacer

[Phantron]

The symbol book gives out the 'starts to wear out' emote when you use it. You've to be making/selling an awful lot of stuff to wear out a GM symbol book, though. I've been selling GM armor for a while now and I don't think I've seen enough scales/hide combined to wear out even a stack of 200 BP augs, let alone the whole book.

[Calrain]

Not there yet.

I'm not currently at the GM stage, but even the master stuff is really situational as to which augs move quicky and which don't. I've been finding that certain pieces get bought up faster than others because people are selectively purchasing pieces/augs. I'm finding the experts stuff is moving fastest at the moment (simply because I haven't gotten to GM yet) and while the expert task isn't all that difficult overall, it is still rather time consuming. Seems to me like you should have something similar to the ancestral book in place once you've completed the initial full bore task.....


Calrain Wolfpacer

[Twistagain]

BTW, each use of the book gives you 20 of each pattern (except wrist...you get 40 of those.) So, the whole book will give you 200 of each pattern (400 wrists.)

The only reasons you'd need more are:
1) Skillup. At worst, you'll be skilling up on Master level augs. Those quests are generally not *that* bad to redo. Some, of course, have it worse than others. Also, you can just move to the next piece. So, do 400 wrists, then go to gloves, etc...that's 1600 combines. Just don't start at too low of a level (not cost effective at lower levels, anyway.)

2) Sales. In this case, you will probably be selling GM augs (not much of a market for anything else.) If you can get 200 Metallic Drake Scales/Glossy Drake Hides and enough buyers to make/sell all those augs, then doing the quest again won't be a big deal...and that's just for 1 piece (chest, for instance.) If you can get that many Coarse Spider Silks...then you are hacking.

[Calrain]

But

It's not the total number of patterns that I'm concerned with, it's the individual pieces that I'm running out of (in my case at present) Sleeves, Chest and Leggings for the experts (skillup path to 222) and as I've admitted, that one isn't that horrible, but still a time sink.

The augs do sell quite well, even master and expert (remember they're all slot 11 and nothing else goes in that slot and people step up the augs as they can afford them), but as I said, are pretty much restricted to a few pieces, not sure how many expert/master wrist symbols I've actually had move, but not many at all. But things like leggings and sleeves, I've had a fair number go.

This is basically the first time I've had even a remotely viable skillup path (limited market though) as a half-elf with things like tailoring and smithing, considering the fact that I'm 2 points away from being a journeyman artisan, it's not like I don't know the cost/time involved in skilling up almost all of the TS's, adding yet annother layer to our time sinks doesn't seem entirely fair.

I guess it's the lack of bank space that's bothering me the most, as it's impossible to store all of the excess expert's patterns that I am not, nor ever will use and still have any room for quest items. (think BiC/earring)


Calrain Wolfpacer

[Wyvernwill]

I know that I had no issues solo'ing my expert's book. I think it took maybe two hours to complete in full. That's a fair commitment of time, but nothing major. If anyone burns through 200 combines of any master's aug... you have my respect. CDD are astoundingly annoying to farm and rare as heck. I averaged 2 every 5-6 hours of farming.

Doing the master's level armor is nothing different than doing the journeyman's level armor. Same patterns, same 20 minute lvl 10 quest in whatever newbie zone.

My suggestion would be, if you are worried about running out of GM symbols at any time, I think this might work, but I haven't really tried to be honest. Go back to your quest giver, get the quest again. This way, you can start to work on it slowly, at your leisure while you work on combines off the other book. If you finish the quest, completely use up the GM book you have, do the turn in for the new one.

The arachnid eyes is something I suffered myself, but I found that one considerably easier than the drake claws. But then again... Creator is now the most popular mission and drake claws aren't that bad anymore. I did eyes when Lavaspinner's Locals was considered a really good one to do since it was 41 Crystals.

[crystilla]

Just mentioning this in case you didn't know about it (the news took me about 3 weeks after the patch to realize it).

You CAN stack these augment patterns/armor molds in a single slot up to 200. You aren't held any longer to only having 20 in a stack.

[Calrain]

200?

Does this apply to other tradeskill items? If it doesn't Why? /boggle

Calrain Wolfpacer

[Ishwar]

I think its a good design. Yes it adds a little time requirement for using it as skillup path, but realistically it is very minor compared to the total time involved in skilling up, and the very powerfull stuff you can actually make using tradeskills these days.

[Ngreth Thergn]

Does this apply to other tradeskill items? If it doesn't Why? /boggle

it applies to some other tradeskill items.

But no not everything.

Part of the reason *IS* a balance. It may not seem necessary to players, but there is a bit of a balance to not having EVERYTHING stack to 200. Some of the chalenge IS to make a player go out and collect again between every few hundred things instead of every few thousand things.

[Calrain]

So

So the theory is that all folks that are involved with tradeskilling should have multiple alternate characters that are used to store supplies of multi-tradeskill persons ie (1750 and 2100 tradeskillers) or have single tradeskill operators that are specialized? Considering the limited bank/pack spaces available and multiple tradeskill containers (both cultural and non-cultural, all of which have various capacities) that are needed and considering the multiple subcombines needed on various recipes this is a little shortsighted.

While I realise that balance might potentially be an issue, coming from a perspective of someone who tries very hard to limit thier switching between alternates and mains due to hardware issues and load times it is a consideration that perhaps may have not been evaluated. The sheer volume of space needed for forage items alone is tremendous, not to mention farmed (ie pelts, hides, scales, bloods etc) items. I'm not sure any of the devs have previously considered this at all. I think any of us that strive to the 1750 or 2100 mark are the type that aren't necessarily in it for the sheer profit of being there but in the enjoyment and challenge that it presents.

Yes, this should likely be directed to a primal scream type discussion I realise, and I apologise for this turning into more of a rant/discussion than the innocent question I first asked, but it is something that I have wondered for quite some time.

If I'm talkin out of my hind end, just slap me and tell me to go hide somewhere

Calrain Wolfpacer

[Sharrien]

Well, if we can't have it on everything we want, the one thing I do very much want the stack size increased is celestial essence.

Please, please, please increase the stack size for celestial essence.

[tnexus]

Just outta curiosity, wouldn't removing the degredation from the books essentially almost void the bankspace problem? I'm currently using up 3 bank space slots for DoN armors that I really can't afford to give up. If the books were never worn down to nothing, I'd just destroy the bags after each use as a few pp will hardly break my bank. Furthermore, I doubt anyone has used all 200 patterns yet. I've used maybe 30 of the most used (probably BP) since the beginning of DoN. I can see little reasoning to have the books worn down as how many people will use up all of their book? Maybe 1% by the time EQ shuts down will use them all up.

I suppose another option would to be make a special parchment that stacks to 200 when using the book. Combine the parchment with a tailoring pattern or armor mold for the respective piece to make the DoN armor pattern/mold. In theory this would reduce bank slots from 24 to 3 per rank of armors.

/derailing off

--Tnexus