Ancient Spells...Researchable now?

[Loupe]

Hey guys.

I'm just coming back from a year "EQ Re-establish my sanity Hiatus" and enjoy the game greatly again.

I'm currently a lvl 66 Necro with my Research skill capped at whatever the max was pre-DON. Please excuse my n00bness...I'm still trying to get into the swing of things.

My buddy who got me back into the game told me he thinks the Ancient spells are researchable now.

Is this true? If so, I haven't been able to find ANY data on this.

I don't understand why every spell hasn't been made researchable yet. I thnk research is the hardest to lvl, and the most useless in it's current form.

I like how EQ has taken a page out of EQ2's working book when it comes to some things, but wish they would follow and make all spells researchable.

I should be able to get Ancient spells without being the luckiest Caster in an Ultra Uber raiding guild.

Granted....It makes total sense that I should have to camp a rune or research component for like 20 hours....but at least make it possible for me to get it.

Not only would that create another money sink, ( and a wonderful one at that ) but it would give those of us that spent so much darn time raising our research a way to make some PP.

Thanks again!

[Nolrog]

My buddy who got me back into the game told me he thinks the Ancient spells are researchable now.

Ancient spells are not researchable now, nor should they ever be.

[Loupe]

Yes, they should be.

In any game, if there is something you want, you should be able to get it with alittle effort.

In this case, I shouldn't be forced to get 500 AA's, give up my family and friends in order to join a Uber guild in order to get an Ancient rune.

Even then, I'm not even promised an Ancient rune cause they are soooo incredibly rare that any guild member before me that would want it (that would be EVERY CASTER) would get one before me.

That's stupid. I played EQ2 long enough to get lvl 50 in Spell Research. And there were some UBER spells that existed in the game at very powerful lvls. And guess what? I could make them all.

EQ needs to do this to make Researching useful. Not to mention introduce 60-70 spells.

[Cyrint Aircaller]

Ancients should never be researchable, following your flawed logic then any kind of gear should be able to be made with tradeskills, even that who drops of the high end raid encounters.
As for caster melee balance then 1 reason casters are screwed is becouse spells are so easy obtaineble.
I do agree it is time to make pop spells researcheable (that would hopefully also give us a way to raise research to level 300).

My own personal opinion is that i enjoy EQ becouse it provide a challenge, if all was handed on a platter i would not play it anymore.

[Sharrien]

I don't think ancients should be researchable, they are special and should remain so. (BTW, I have none on either of my highest characters who are also frequent raiders) But I do think that all the LDoN spells, the GoD stone spells and maybe some of the PoP spells could be researchable without breaking the game any.

[Loupe]

Listen,

I agree with EQ2 being too darn easy. They made the game too easy.

However. Their tradeskilling concept is MUCH better than EQ's current.

Ok, maybe it's alittle easier, (which they could adjust) but generally...most of the items you see people wearing are player made. Now, I wouldn't be one for removing the cool drops from EQ...(one of the things I hated about EQ2)

But how would you feel actually MAKING something for someone to wear?

My Rogue is 200 capped in all tradeskills, and you know what? Except for the odd quest item that I had to make on someone's request...the only thing I ever did in tradeskilling was grind to lvl it up.

Sure, an enchanter with a 300 JC is in high demand because of the augs, but what about a Smithy?

They spend so much time lvl'ing, and don't do anything once they are high lvl.
They don't make armor for people and sell it in the bazaar.

Baking and JC are the only "high demand" tradeskills.

If you think EQ2 was easy in way of tradeskilling, what do you think of EQ?

I mean, you can be a master tradeskiller in every avenue. Can you be a cleric and a warrior? No.

In most new MMORPG's you can only do one tradeskill. The interdependancy on others in the community is paramount.

Which, I must admit....if you didn't play EQ2 and see the tradeskilling community at work, your really missing out.

Was great fun.

[Loupe]

Perhaps then, making the Ancient spells alittle more accessible then would be nice. I don't see why lvl 60 Ancient spells couldn't be researched...I mean...they ARE worthless at lvl 70.

I think as the lvl cap is raised, you must adjust the lower end when it comes to spells and such.

Personally, I'm one of those people who feel "incomplete" if I don't have ALL my spells for a toon, or all my skills capped etc.

It's just a personal thing I have, and that's a part of the game I enjoy.

I understand all your thoughts on the matter, I just don't agree on SOE's concept of how absolutely RARE they indeed are.
Like I said, you shouldn't have to raid 7 days a week for 4-5 hrs a night in hopes that someday you MIGHT....get ONE Ancient spell.

[Nolrog]

Yes, they should be.

In any game, if there is something you want, you should be able to get it with alittle effort.

In this case, I shouldn't be forced to get 500 AA's, give up my family and friends in order to join a Uber guild in order to get an Ancient rune.

Even then, I'm not even promised an Ancient rune cause they are soooo incredibly rare that any guild member before me that would want it (that would be EVERY CASTER) would get one before me.

That's stupid. I played EQ2 long enough to get lvl 50 in Spell Research. And there were some UBER spells that existed in the game at very powerful lvls. And guess what? I could make them all.

EQ needs to do this to make Researching useful. Not to mention introduce 60-70 spells.

Ancient spells are a very special breed. Not everyone should be able to get them with "a little effort." They should require a great deal of effort to get, and should remain super rare.

I agree that more spells should be researchable (however, I disagree that spells all the way up to 70 should be. Spells up to 65 should be, because the content is a few years old, but 66+ should not be, because the content is rather new.)

The thing you need to keep in mind, is that EQ is not EQ2. They are very different games.

[Itek]

The "ancient" spells are a totally different CLASS of item. The name "ancient" implies and proves this.

This is NOT your father's spell... (sorry Oldsmobile..)

No one, let me say that again... NO ONE absolutely NEEDS an ancient spell. The other spells of the same type (nuke, heal, buff, etc) are more than sufficient.

Do they need to add some research, yeah...
Do they need to increast research drops, oh yeah... (40k for RGC... deal)
Do they need to make tradeskills, all of them, have smoother and more clear learning paths, heck yeah...

But EQ2 is so different from EQ you might as well say "we had wild cards when we played at home, why don't they have wild cards in the World Series of Poker?"

Just re-watched Pulp Fiction...

Jules: .... It's not the same ball-park, it's not the same -league- ... heck, it's not the same SPORT!!

Besides, there are OTHER benefits to getting level 70, 500 AA, and accepted into a top raiding guild besides Ancient spells. (It's not a 'sunk cost' kinda deal.)

[Tudani]

Perhaps then, making the Ancient spells alittle more accessible then would be nice. I don't see why lvl 60 Ancient spells couldn't be researched...I mean...they ARE worthless at lvl 70.

If they were worthless nobody would want them.
In fact, they've really become status symbols more than anything. The concept behind ancient spells back when they were first put into the game was to be the equivalant to high end raid level gear. They're a bit better (but not game breakingly better) than the non ancient versions. But like raid gear should be hard to get. I guess I defend ancient spells the way they are not because it's necessarily the best way (because believe me, when you have people fighting over who gets what spells in what order it's...well...not exactly fun). But because it wouldn't mean anything to have them if they were easy to get. Everytime something gets easier it means less and less to have that benchmark. And it's nice to have something in the game that you can be proud of years later.

[Wystler]

Like I said, you shouldn't have to raid 7 days a week for 4-5 hrs a night in hopes that someday you MIGHT....get ONE Ancient spell.

/shrug I have all my ancients/chaos songs for the level of content I'm raiding (endgame GoD, midgame OoW atm, just dropped the Gelaqua for the first time last night) and don't play the game like that. I have a full time+ job and a healthy social life. If I can do it, you can too. It's not near as "big" a deal as you're making it out to be.

I agree with Nol though, they should be obtained the way they are currently. They're not required to progress through the game, they're a bonus. So if you want them, go put the time in to get them like the rest of us did. Just use the time you DO log in inteligently and you'll get all the things accomplished that you want. If you'd rather just mess around in game and not have to think and plan your time out, well then you won't obatin the items in the game that do require some planning.

This is one of the main reasons I'm not playing EQ2. I don't like what they did to the progression of gear/items/character. If you dig that, far as I know EQ2 is still chugging along. Takes all kinds and there's plenty of options out there for each type of player.

[Neebat]

Listen,
Their tradeskilling concept is MUCH better than EQ's current.

It might be better for you to spend a bit more time listening and watching, getting to know the current state of EQ tradeskilling. As it is, it sounds like you want to lecture us on the game we've all been playing and enjoying for the last year. If it doesn't appeal to YOU, that's something YOU can handle, because it does appeal to ME. Until you understand why it appeals to the existing tradeskill community, don't assume the other game's systems would be better for everyone. You'll get some folks very upset this way and I'm probably one of them.

But how would you feel actually MAKING something for someone to wear?

Quite a lot of people are spending good money on player-made equipment, so it's not as unusual as you assume. Making items people use is hard. It takes a lot of work, but it happens. My paladin is wearing magnetic sleeves, my ranger is wearing bazu leggings and a cultural breastplate and my wizard makes caster armor for gnomes that people BUY. Based on my experience, it feels really good.

Your lack of experience with the EQ of today is showing.

Sure, an enchanter with a 300 JC is in high demand because of the augs, but what about a Smithy?

3 of the four items listed above were made by a smith. It also happens that I'm using 3 augs made by a jewel crafter, but there's now very little advantage for an enchanter to be a jewel crafter.

Baking and JC are the only "high demand" tradeskills.

ROFL. I was talking to a fellow baker last night who has run into the same problems I have, being unable to give away the items he makes. Good, solid stat items are being destroyed. I've made my best profits on TINKERING, items that a lot of people use, but I can't break even at baking.

Which, I must admit....if you didn't play EQ2 and see the tradeskilling community at work, your really missing out.

Was great fun.

If we're missing out, then so are you. Why are you here?

Do you know why Sony created Ancient spells? They were created for a specific disparity and before suggesting that everyone should have a chance at them, you'd do well to understand the purpose. Ancient spells were created as slightly powered-up versions of existing high level spells. They exist to give casters the same incentive and reward that raid-level weapon drops give to the melee types. I don't agree that raid-level weapons should be available as tradeskill items and the same goes for research spells.

[Maevenniia]

Ancient Spells are not meant to be had by everyone, so no, they should not be researchable. Not every warrior is meant to have the "Uber Breastplate of Amazing Super-Duperness" that drops from the end-game boss, and not every caster is meant to have their Ancient spell(s).

I agree with Nolrog, most spells up to level 65 (PoP & GoD) need to be researchable, excluding QUEST spells (ex: spells from LoY) and spells bought with DoN crystals.

[Neebat]

There are two real problems:
1. Not enough post-200 research recipes
2. Very few people hunting in GoD, LoY and SoL, so those spells are no longer dropping.

I support solving both problems in one step by making spells from those expansions available by research.

That's STILL a separate issue from the uber-weapons those expansions provide.

[Nolrog]

There are two real problems:
1. Not enough post-200 research recipes
2. Very few people hunting in GoD, LoY and SoL, so those spells are no longer dropping.

I support solving both problems in one step by making spells from those expansions available by research.

That's STILL a separate issue from the uber-weapons those expansions provide.

Personally, I don't think any quest spells should be researchable. Most of the SoL spells already are researchable, I think (you can research spells up to level 60, which includes those, though, some components are a tad bit on the rare side.) The PoP spells are the ones that I think should be researchable. That would be the most obvious candidate to bring research up to 300. The GoD spells, perhaps. I don't hunt there myself, so I don't know how many are there. When I start looking for the GoD spells, I'll drag a group of friends to hunt there for some of them. We're always looking for new zones to explore.