Trader Etiquette in regard to Pricing and Collecting?

[Dyllwin]

(they priced it at 9p 9g and it only cost them 1p 5g to make)

Just to play devil's advocate here, you are only counting the material costs, totally ignoring the drudgery of keeping a toon in Kaladim to pick up the ground spawns every few minutes. This is the real cost of making KC and shouldn't be discounted when setting a selling price.

As everyone else has said, everyone is free to set their own price for goods, and the guy seems to have been a bit rude, but considering the time and effort to make these I can understand him not wanting anything hurting the market.

Anyway, good luck with your skilling

[Cenebi]

Ok, now though it was rather rude to refuse to just let you sell for about 2p under him (He's only making 1.9p less per bottle, not that big a difference unless he is selling thousands, in which case he would have plenty after you sold out anyways), and I would just get annoyed when some guy claimed he owned the market and that I could not price my good as I pleased (I would actually price them at ridiculous prices out of spite ), I can understand where he is coming from, almost. If I had been selling something at a set price for a while, and someone came and started undercutting me, I would be somewhat upset (not enough to follow you to Kaladim to harass you).

On another note, I firmly believe that the only things that should dictate prices are how much the item costs to make, and how difficult the ingredients are to come by, for example, (gonna use fletching examples here, thats the TS I am most familiar with) if someone were selling Class 1 Wood Point Arrows for 1p each, they would be making a several thousand percent markup, which is ridiculous. However, I can see someone charging up to 2p each for Flame Tipped Acrylia Arrows because the fletching costs a decent amount (considering how many you generally buy) and half the materials must be farmed (or bought at inflated bazaar prices). Now, considering the fact that Kaladim Constitutional ingredients can all either be bought from merchants or picked up off the ground, 9.9p is kinda high. I would probably not sell them for more than 4p each, enough to recover my costs and make a little profit (to compensate for waiting for the ground spawns, you could even pay newbs to sit there are pick them for you while you are off doing other stuff.), unless they are my sole source of income, in which case, I need to find a better source of income. I personally think that Pricing things at insane prices (40p per KC?) is unfair to the buyers who can't afford that much. Always keep in mind that tradeskillers are the only source of some items, just because people are willing to spend that much for an item, does not make it right to charge that much, it just makes the people who either spend all their time farming, or buy plat (ebay, IGE, etc, take your pick) the only ones who can afford what your selling.

Sorry if I went kinda long, I don't post often, and as such, most of my posts can be qualified as essays. That, or they are really, really short. (I also ramble a lot, like I am now... STOP IT! *smacks self* )

[Kemie Dreamshadow]

Hehe I already responded once, but at this point feel like saying something more.

I, too, can understand the pricing issues from two points of view, that of the person who feels someone else is undercutting the "fair price" and trying to steal your sales, and that of the person who gets jumped on for the so-called undercutting.

Individuals experiencing either side often suffer from the fallout, enjoy tradeskilling less, and hence the game, for quite a while.

The reason I cannot appreciate the side of the person in the bazaar with his set price, who continued to spam Svetlana, however, is because of the apparent arrogance evident in his behavior. NOBODY OWNS THE MARKET on any item in the bazaar, nor should they EVER expect to, or feel they have the right to, prevent others from trading.

He was way too quick to jump all over her, and never bothered even to attempt to find out from her if she was doing this on a temporary basis while skilling up, or expected to be doing this long-term.

The truth is that he probably didn't care what her side was. He had found what he thought was a cushy deal (from what he is reported to have said to her) and was vehemently opposed to her cutting into it at all.

If tradeskillers who routinely agree with others on set prices want to operate that way, I have no problem with it. But I do have a problem with rude people who cannot understand they are not the only ones playing this game, or who may have the right to enjoy it without someone making life miserable for them.

It IS just a game, and we play, or should play, for enjoyment. And on the other side of every character in the game, there's a real human being who has feelings too.

Kemie

[Eoghnved]

I don't usually worry too much about undercutters, since they're likely to sell out and go away soon enough. What annoys me are the ones who undercut by a ridiculously small margin. Several months back Misty Thicket Picnics were selling for 15p on my server, so this one guy priced his at 14p 9g 9s 9c. I figure if you're going to undercut for quick sales you should at least be bold about it instead of doing this fractional pricing rubbish. When I'm buying, I have a policy to never buy from someone with a fractional price like that. I'll pay the extra two silver coins per stack just to keep from rewarding that sort of trader.

[Sanadila]

*laughs* I have my Qeynos Afternoon Teas priced permanently at 5 pp just because of a situation like this. I'd been selling the for 8 pp for a while, but had been out of stock for a month or so. A couple of others started selling them for 10 pp. When I got some time to farm feathers again, I put up my supply at my usual 8pp. One of the other sellers posted a nasty note on the server board about a "new* trader undercutting the market and that in response, he was going to put his up at cost for 5 pp.

Needless to say, he pissed me off royally. I posted the actual cost of making the things, even considering failures (*giggle* I keep a spreadsheet with all my tradeskills, costs, success rates) and showed that at 5 pp it was still a tidy little profit coming from these. That the only reason I ever had them up at 8pp (originally I'd had them at 6) was because it was the lowest price I could put that would stop other traders buying them up and reselling them at a much higher price. And so, since this guy wanted to be snotty, I'd just put my teas at 5 pp permanently. And so they have been ever since.

Yeah, I've got a nasty temper, I can't help it.

Right now, with the increase in skill caps, just about every product I make is being undercut. But I don't really care. My prices have pretty much stayed the same. I've got enough plat in the bank to weather things until the tradeskill runs are all sold. And enough people buy from me out of loyalty just because they know I keep my prices fair and I'm usually on-line. They don't have to take time to do a bazaar search to see who's selling for what. They just run to my trader (or perhaps I should say, my husband and my string of traders *laughs*) to get all their needs met in one stop. So, while the undercutters have hurt my business a bit, they haven't hurt it much, and really, it's just not that important to me. I know they are just trying to clear bank space to from a skillup run and when it's over, it'll just be me selling them again.

On notes of annoying things, though. My husband and I have multiple accounts and usually have at least 3 traders up. We usually are in one corner of the bazaar grouped together away from anyone else. It's a huge bazaar and we generally only have 10 or 15 traders up at a time (on Test here). We aren't on the first platform coming up from the bank, we're two rooms over. The reason we're two rooms over, is because some idiot insists on setting up in the middle of our group, time after time. His only possible reason for setting up there (since there's not an empty room between us and the rest of the traders) is to take advantage of our foot traffic. I assume he's hoping someone else will click on him by accident instead of us. Annoying git....

*giggles and dashes off to plot further domination of the Test tradeskill market)

[mewkus]

If someone complains about you undercutting their market, just do what I do and tell them to buy out your stock and resell it. Maybe if you tell them your just trying to reoup your costs as you skill up, they'll be more likely to buy your stock (instead of thinking you're gonna be a perminant competitor or theirs).

[Ravenswood]

Although I stated that I'd never voice another opinion here, I just have to say something and I think this one's safe enough that I won't get myself into trouble...

I undercut price on every item I sell. Everything. When I log a trader on, I check prices on just about everything I have, and if an adjustment is needed and I feel I can afford to reduce my price 50-100pp below the lowest in the bazaar, I'll change it. Why? Three main reasons:

1) I reserve the right to charge anything I want for these items, as has been stated numerous times by others in this thread.

2) I feel no obligation to price items at the same rate as others out there to be fair. Why should someone who sets a price and walks away for 12 hours be gauranteed the same profits as someone like me who checks market prices frequently? Additonally, you can bet that eventually someone will come along and undercut your price and thus you have to remain competetive.

3) Running a bazaar mule is an unbelievable bore. Checking prices, adjusting for market rates, etc, makes it a much more fun and exciting process.

Competition is the name of the game here, folks. WE're not talking about some sort of egalitarian, pseudo-hippie, communist farm market here, we're talking free-market economy! Have fun with it!

Regarding my response to the original poster, the person you were dealing with has some serious issues to deal with. He/she was completely out of line, and seriously needs to be put on a few /ignore lists.

[Cerpicio]

Two words: game theory.

If there are only two people selling (for example) and you agree to not go below a price, you both profit. Otherwise you can end up in a pricing war and both may end up with no profit.

If it's a hot-selling item, you know you'll sell it sooner or later. I'd rather be patient and sell it at the higher price then fight to get the lowest price and the first sale.

I don't want to sit there and watch prices all the time. If I'm going to be at the computer that much, I'd rather be hunting/grouping/XPing.


-- C.

[Neebat]

Each person's prices should reflect that individuals GOALS. These are different. It sounds like Svetlana's goal in putting up a bazaar vendor was to clear bank space, picking up some cash in the process. Since the inventory was worthless, (hence giving it away) but the time spent selling it was valuable, setting the price low was the best strategy. To sell a limited supply fast, it only makes good practical sense to under price the manufacturers and outlet malls do it all the time.

The great thing about a vendor like that is you can raise their price yourself. Just walk over, buy it and stick it in a trader's satchel. That gets one person out of the bazaar and back to the game sooner. They're happy that the stuff is gone, you're happy that your fixed price is back. You get more stock without having to farm and the public has a more reliable supply. If you're intent on selling that one item indefinately, then you'll still be in the bazaar charging your fixed price long after that vendor is gone.

To Svetlana: More power to you! If you've got something you want to sell, find the best price you can get in the amount of time you're willing to commit. If you're not interested in keeping a bazaar mule up all the time, aim low. Respond to those harrassing tells with a price for the whole lot.

To the folks who want fixed prices: My goals are different than yours and so are my prices. My trader wants empty slots so I can log in and play, not half your sales for the next month. Rather than telling me to raise my price, send me an offer for the whole stock. I'll be out of your way.

To the Cerpico, I appreciate game theory (a serious branch of mathematics) as much as the next guy, but in business it's called collusion and in real life, that's illegal. It hurts the buyers and ultimately may be hurting you, the seller. Real competition encourages innovation, and even in EQ that's a good thing. Getting driven out of one market by under-cutters may well drive you to a much more profitable persuit. Let those undercutters have their razor margins and find a new product. If you're selling commodities, expect commodities pricing.

You can't make Solstice Robes and sell them for a profit when there's people selling hordes for 50pp each, but there is probably still something that is under-served with a healthy mark up, for the moment. I've found tinkering to be an under-served market on my server, so my gizmos are selling fast. If they stop selling, either because of lack of demand or excess of supply, then I'll go do something else.

[GrimwoodCT]

The bazaar brings out the worst in lots of folks.

For several months over the fall/winter there was a fellow that took the time to actually 2 and sometimes 3 box in the Cazic Thule bazaar. He was running some questionable /casinos (having his alts win big prizes or having them praise his honesty), having one character praise another's prices, etc. He was pretty slick and I didn't realize it was being done till I caught him in a mistell and I called him on it in a /tell.

Well, then it was on. I was a cheater, a griefer, he "knew all about me". Other people, that had suspected the same of this guy, chimed in that they had the same feeling that he was playing fast and loose with good bazaar practices. When others confronted him the bazaar became a flame fest. Later, in a truly Kafkesque moment, the guy accused me of being HIM. I was being /reported anytime I auc'd the same thing he was selling, etc.

He eventually tried to buy me off with "donations" of gear, promises to buy all my stuff if I'd just go away, etc. When I declined he began the same shtick. Finally, he disappeared after EQ2 and WoW came out. All for the best I assume.

Platinum pieces, like HPs and mana, are the lifeblood of the game. People get very antsy when its cut off or threatened.

Grim

[Wyvernwill]

Pricing on goods is always a touchy subject. Dropped or Tradeskilled.

As for the collusion of prices and market cornering, if this was real life, legal action would be taken against anyone trying to corner or fix the market. Incase you guys don't pay attention to news... Microsoft has taken multiple law suits because they have most of the PC industry cornered mercilessly. Their prices set that no new companies can really take footing in the business before being crushed to death. Microsoft keeps expanding it's grounds, and in having the money to do so, may end up crushing out the console gaming system industry also. Playstation and Nintendo have been somewhat not as cool since I have actually been exploring more of the X Box games. There are things that Xbox lacks, just because certain game designers have stayed with Playstation. Wal-mart is quickly becoming the Microsoft of retail.

Now, off of real life and onto EQ.

In my opinion, some of the stated prices for KCs are completely astronomical in my eyes. I could never charge someone 25pp + per Kaladims. I can't even, in good conscience, sell them for more than 15pp per. When you factor in the "vendor purchased" parts to combine them, they are extremely cheap to make, 1.5pp as stated above. At 15pp you are making 10 times the cost of combines. To me, that's the high end of resonable. 5-10 times the cost for return is a huge gain, especially with something that can be churned out as fast as KCs.

When I raise skill, I attempt to sell off my trash asap. To me, having a vendor with 8 10slot bags completely full is very bad for my cash flow. Yes, it does make for good income as you sell more and more things off... however it does make it hard to keep your main bank clear for more combines. I had major issues with this after skilling up on Arcylia Tipped Arrows, MTP and KC over this last weekend. My trader was fully, my main bank still was full, and one alt still had a good pile on him. I priced things at sub cost to clear space, once I cleared, I moved prices more in line with the common ground of bazaar. While skilling up, I made a LOT of very happy people in PoK. I was selling MTP and KC stacks at 2pp per stack. I got fast sales and generated more money to skill, and made room. To me, win win situation.

Pricing all comes down to how much profit you are willing to sacrifice. Those not willing to sacrifice, will still sell theirs, just in due time. Those willing to sacrifice more PP later, earn smaller amounts sooner. All depends on your personal preference.

[Rissenn]

Was I in the wrong? I felt extremely uncomfortable about the whole matter. All I wanted was to get 300 brewing, and to play EQ in peace.

You were not in the wrong. The Bazaar is a free place where you can set the price to whatever you want. Mainly I would believe that this person who kept sending you tells has kept doing so over and over to otehrs until they have gotten tired. My suggestion would actually be to undercut him again and then report him for harassment when the tells start.

On my server people have been extremely polite about the mushroom patch. If it is busy they will ask to be sent a tell when I leave and viceversa.

What he did was quite pathetic really. Dont worry about it, you are in the right!

[splunge]

*giggles and dashes off to plot further domination of the Test tradeskill market)

Shop Smart! Shop Splungemart!

So has anyone ganked my box yet? =D

[Sanadila]

Sorry, Splungie, but with the new bazaar, all the old spots are gone! The Glendells had to set up a new home for themselves in the new bazaar. And we've had to move twice because we keep getting idgets coming and setting up in the middle of us!! *grumbles under her breath...it's our spot* Although, when it happened again this weekend, I was reorganizing all my mules and kept sending alts over to put stuff on the traders. Every time I went past him I did a /em rolls eyes at %t. *giggles* I thought he was afk. But after the fourth one rolled her eyes at him, he up and left! Hasn't been back.

[Bobaten]

In my opinion, some of the stated prices for KCs are completely astronomical in my eyes. I could never charge someone 25pp + per Kaladims. I can't even, in good conscience, sell them for more than 15pp per. When you factor in the "vendor purchased" parts to combine them, they are extremely cheap to make, 1.5pp as stated above. At 15pp you are making 10 times the cost of combines. To me, that's the high end of resonable. 5-10 times the cost for return is a huge gain, especially with something that can be churned out as fast as KCs.

While KC's do cost 1.5pp each to make now, thats after the skill cap went up. At 250 skill it was around a 50% success rate, so they cost 3pp to make. 25pp is right inline with your 5-10 times then (after the skill cap raise they are down to 12pp on Prexus). But the problem with your calculation is you are discounting the farming time. Again, with the old success rate, you can farm components for about 8 stacks of kc an hour. An hours farming is worth at least as much as the rest of the components (~500pp for 8 stacks).

Of course the real issue is that prices vary from server to server, and from day to day. I started making kc because I wasn't willing to pay the bazaar price of 25pp. I continued to make it because others were.