The Barter Area on test

[Sanadila]

Just checked with designers, and on Beta:

There is a direct zone line between the Bartering Quarter and the Bazaar, and both zones are marked "No encumbrance".

Yes and no, Tanker. There is a one-way connection going from the Bartering Quarter to the Bazaar. However, as of yet, there doesn't appear to be a direct return path, and that is a problem. Let me illustrate. I have my buyer up in the Barter zone, and I run out of money. So, I zone over to the Bazaar and get money from the trader there. Well, in order to return to the Barter Quarter, I have to go to the bank, put the money in the bank and toss all my bags in there so I'm not too heavy, then zone from bazaar to nexus, nexus to PoK, and PoK to the Barter Quarter. Then I have to go to the bank there, and get my money and my bags back before I set up again to buy. There really needs to be a direct connection back to the barter quarter from the Bazaar.

If you meant that there is already a direct connection planned, then I apologize for making you read the above drivvle *grin*.

[Trellium]

(No, seriously folks. I can't help but think that placing these buildings over next to the the western trader building will put extra pressure on Dogle's bank and for us small folks its a real pain to have to dodge around everyone elses feet and legs to bank as it is.)

I agree with you on this, that I use the halfling banker for the same reason. The one point I bring up is that the Barter zone is a "weight free" zone like the Bazaar, and it has more bankers in it (several of them, in two different areas). My guess is that it will become more used by people over time.

The maps to the Barter zone are critical, as is the "Find Buyer" function.

I made my own map (I assume they will publish the SOE version of it soon though), it really helped reduce the confusion of that zone and I don't see having too many problems navigating to the other buyers when I need to.

But, at the same time I do think it will be annoying to have to run all the way over to the "other" set of bankers/buyers each time I want to sell or trade something. I think there is a good chance I will use one of the other accounts we have to place a second char in that area, so that I can possibly sell something easier, or to make it easier for other people to buy from me.

So ... do I think the duplciation will decrease lag due to proximity? Only a little, there might be some duplication of characters.

[KyrosKrane]

I puttered around in the Barter zone for a bit. Without a map, this will be hard to describe, but here goes.

The zone is actually split into two distinct parts, connected by a teleporter. The part you zone into has the tradeskill vendors and containers, but not the buyer platforms. You have to use the teleporter pad to get to the other part of the zone with the buyer platforms.

If you are in the tradeskill part, you cannot use the find function to reach a buyer, simply because there is no direct physical path to the buyer.

You have to use the teleporter to get to the buyer area, then use the find function there.

[Maevenniia]

I puttered around in the Barter zone for a bit. Without a map, this will be hard to describe, but here goes.

The zone is actually split into two distinct parts, connected by a teleporter. The part you zone into has the tradeskill vendors and containers, but not the buyer platforms. You have to use the teleporter pad to get to the other part of the zone with the buyer platforms.

If you are in the tradeskill part, you cannot use the find function to reach a buyer, simply because there is no direct physical path to the buyer.

You have to use the teleporter to get to the buyer area, then use the find function there.

I was actually in the Buyer platform area, next to a buyer I was trying to "Find" (because I finally stumbled on him while wandering around), and "Find Buyer" still gave me the "Mysterious forces prevent you...." message.

And I still don't like the layout. /shrug

[Delores Mulva]

I'm also disappointed that the Bazaar and the Barter area will be separate. I don't have two accounts to leave up all night, so I'll have to choose which to use. Since I almost always have something to sell, the choice will be clear - the Bazaar. Possible ideas for reducing the load:

-reduce the trader limit back to 500, or even lower. I can't speak for other servers, but on my server our peak trader load these days is 350. There's room to contract, and if a seller can also be set up as a buyer then the total Trader load shouldn't increase dramatically.
-eliminate the tradeskill containers from the Bazaar/Barter area. PoK has a full set of containers and is one zone away; guild halls have a full set of containers and are right off PoK. If people wish to skill up, there's other areas to do it, and with the shared bank slot buying supplies in The Bazaar for skilling is a mule away.
-there's a Hide Traders button. Would a Hide All button, which made everyone except NPCs disappear, help, or does that only help with graphics lag on the client's side? Can other functions be turned off in The Bazaar, like the ability to do a /who for the zone? Is there any way to turn off information on PC/NPC positions outside of clipping range, so the server wouldn't need to send that information?
-eliminate the arena from The Bazaar, and add a book from PoK to the Arena zone. This leaves the easy-to-access PvP area for people who like to duel, and moves some non-sellers out of the zone.

If you can tell us what sorts of things cause load in a zone, we might be able to suggest things that can be turned off because they aren't needed to buy/sell.

Delores Mulva
Lotus Cult
Quellious

[Laurelleii]

I haven't seen our trader population go above about 320 in a couple months so that on top of the Hide Traders button means to me also that lag is a none issue. I am sure there are other technical reasons to keep them separate at this time but it is going to be hassle for a lot of us. I am not happy about having to use a slot on another account to do my buying, even though I am thrilled about actually being able to become a "Buyer". Sometimes the hassle created can steal some of the thunder of the wonderful new idea. I do have faith that it will work itself out though.

I have to add my opinion about the PoK situation like a couple others above have. It's not that big of an issue to me which bank the zone ins are nearest to as I use both banks, though I do prefer the smaller bank most times. I do have to say that the entry ways just look terrible. There has always been that smooth round walk way right around the inside there of PoK and now you run smack into these big ugly walls not once, but twice. They look completely out of place and just plain tacky jutting out that far like they do. I realize we want people to see them but there has got to be a better way then throwing them in the way they are.

Also the one is almost directly on top of the Druid/Wizard port in spot. I play a Druid and I can tell you that you land, each and every time, right smack with your face into that stone corner. It's a small thing but it's annoying. If these entry ways cannot be scaled back to look more like they belong there, can we possibly adjust the landing point for the port in so we stop landing on top of it?

Laurelleii~

[Kakg]

can we possibly adjust the landing point for the port in so we stop landing on top of it?

That's a valid point I hadn't realised until you mentioned it. The area around the wizard port in is one of the quieter, calmer areas where you can layout a blanket and enjoy a misty thicket picnic basket with friends. Stuffing a building on that green field site is taking away one of the largest areas of grass available in PoK.

I would suggest that rather than cramming new buildings into the existing space in PoK that instead it is about time that the big wigs in the tower got down to some serious expansion. Why not build a new neutral west wing to PoK? That would give plenty of room for these new buildings, some good clear green space for MGBing outside the guild hall and room for extra portal stones for the future. And more importantly it would leave that green space for what it was intended for, a clear space to allow Wizards to come to a crashing halt which is wide enough to avoid damage to surrounding buildings and boundry walls if they muck it up and implode in landing.

[Verdandi]

There have been some suggestions of making additions or significant changes to existing zones. I'm no expert on the file systems and such for the game, but my understanding is that when a change is made to the actual structure of a zone, every player has to get an entirely new copy of all the zones files, which are quite big. Those who buy an expansion can get those files from the expansion CDs, although space on those may be a precious commodity in and of itself. But then all those who don't buy an expansion have to download those very big files. That adds considerably to patch times, irritating everyone involved (especially those with slow connections) and increases the already huge burden on the patch server(s). I've gotten the distinct impression through the years that changes to existing zones are avoided as much as possible. (Many times an object is added instead of changing the entire structure. You can recognize these because if you stand a little way away and click on them, you get the message that you're too far, even though it's not something that does anything when you click on it. They're added to the zone like doors and aren't part of the actual, physical zone structure, so they didn't require distributing new zone files.)

Ergo, suggestions that depend on changes to physical zone structure are probably a lot less likely to be used than those that can be accomplished without.

[Nolrog]

There have been some suggestions of making additions or significant changes to existing zones. I'm no expert on the file systems and such for the game, but my understanding is that when a change is made to the actual structure of a zone, every player has to get an entirely new copy of all the zones files, which are quite big. Those who buy an expansion can get those files from the expansion CDs, although space on those may be a precious commodity in and of itself.

Chances are that most, if not all changes at this point in time will need to be downloaded (if not now, then very soon.) The expansion comes out in less than 2 weeks, and they need time to press all the CDs, box them up and ship them out to the stores. Maybe another 4 days to get stuff on the CDs, but not much more than that.

If the zone structure is problematic, and prevents the zone from being used as intended, then it should be changed, regardless of weather or not it will get onto the CDs. IMO, that shouldn't be a rate limiting factor. We download zonefiles all the time, and expansion day patches are always rather large (and the downtime is rather long, so people have plenty of time to download the files necessary.)

[Maevenniia]

I agree, I'd rather re-download a new PoK zonefile with a new wing than endure teh absolute montrosities of teh guild hall and barter quarter entrances that have been placed in PoK. They are an eyesore, they are too big, they block traffic, and take away from the immersion factor.

[mewkus]

Regarding the separation of the barter and bazaar zones due to server loading... The bazaar's been up and going for at least two years. Hasn't the performance of computers (for their servers) improved enough since then to handle the extra load of the barterers? Having them in separate zones isn't going to decrease the number of queries (for the most part), but rather distributes them to different servers. With regards to bandwidth issues, it is likely to use up more bandwidth having different zones since lots of people will set up a seller in the bazaar and a buyer in the barter zone.

[Boleslav]

There seems to be plenty of space in PoK where something could have been done without plopping it where they did. Here's my thought on how to have placed the barter area and the guild hall in a more elegant manner.

There is a courtyard outside the library, where the Priest of Discord is. That courtyard surrounds the library structure, and has a few rather large 'nooks' in it. Each has two entryways, and upon first glance, you would think you are entering a building. If you took the nook to the left of the PoD and made the door to it the guild hall entrance, and then taken the one to the left of the PoD and made it the barter area entrance you would completely eliminate any damage to PoK's skyline.

Also, you funnel everyone up there already to access OoW zones from PoK, so it is capable of handling the traffic. Just an idea.

Boleslav Forgehammer
Paladin of Brell in his 66th Campaign
E'ci – Sacred Desitny

[Maevenniia]

There seems to be plenty of space in PoK where something could have been done without plopping it where they did. Here's my thought on how to have placed the barter area and the guild hall in a more elegant manner.

There is a courtyard outside the library, where the Priest of Discord is. That courtyard surrounds the library structure, and has a few rather large 'nooks' in it. Each has two entryways, and upon first glance, you would think you are entering a building. If you took the nook to the left of the PoD and made the door to it the guild hall entrance, and then taken the one to the left of the PoD and made it the barter area entrance you would completely eliminate any damage to PoK's skyline.

Also, you funnel everyone up there already to access OoW zones from PoK, so it is capable of handling the traffic. Just an idea.

Boleslav Forgehammer
Paladin of Brell in his 66th Campaign
E'ci – Sacred Desitny

That's an excellent idea!

[Trellium]

I'm no expert on the file systems and such for the game, but my understanding is that when a change is made to the actual structure of a zone, every player has to get an entirely new copy of all the zones files, which are quite big. Those who buy an expansion can get those files from the expansion CDs, although space on those may be a precious commodity in and of itself.

PoK isn't an expansion, its part of the basic Everquest. Also, they are already changing the PoK to add in the two new zone lines ... so PoK files will be pushed out anyway. It won't be going to only people who bought the expansion, since everyone has access to PoK. They also get access to other areas new with the expansion such as the Barter zone.

[Verdandi]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean for the zone file stuff to get this complicated. I just mean if you can think of a way to accomplish what you want without altering the zone itself, it might make it more likely to happen. The easier you make it to accomodate your request, the more likely it'll be used, right? (For example, shrink the guild halls entrance and leave it at just one, if it seems too big and in the way.) Just a suggestion! I want to see good ideas happen.

PoK isn't an expansion, its part of the basic Everquest.

My point was that if you change a zone that everyone has access to, everyone has to get copies of the new files. If the changes are coming with an expansion (like guild halls), you can put the new copies on there to save those folks from downloading them, but those who don't get the expansion will still have to download.

Also, they are already changing the PoK to add in the two new zone lines ... so PoK files will be pushed out anyway.

Not necessarily. If they use interactive objects to create a thing that you click on (like doors, as I mentioned) for the zones, then they aren't part of the zone structure files.

(Disclaimer: this is all based on personal observation of things in game and comments by the devs on message boards and such. I could be wrong.)