The Barter Area on test

[Maevenniia]

regarding #3 (Faded Salil pages)...is there a way of knowing when you buy them in the bazaar ot off NPC merchants, what they will "become" when you unfade them? (I dunno, maybe chanters have a trik that works.)

If not, then why expect that you can tell the difference in buyer mode? Just set up buy lines for each of the faded pages and take the same risk that you do when buying em off NPCs or in bazaar.

[Trellium]

I think the only trick we have is to do the combine on the page before selling/buying so we are sure of which one we have. If there is another way, I also want to know it , however, that is what I tended to do with those pages. As I recall (and this was a long time ago for me), the npc vendors had slightly different prices for those pages and you could tell them apart that way before the combine was done.

For that matter, I don't think we could cast an Identify on a particular item in the inventory either. There are some items that are identical graphics and description; you need the identify spell to help you make sure you have the right one. Confusing for both seller and buyer ... and probably not something to try to automate. Still best to do somethings one-on-one. It really doesn't need to cover all possible scenarios for it to be useful.

Now, as for the multiple charge items, I thought I would go check my sow potions ... turns out that every single sow potion I had on every character has the potions bug of showing 0 charges left. I don't think anything I do as a test will be very valid, since 0 dose potions don't normally fill your inventory. lol.

Edit:
Ok, I tried to set up one /buyer to purchase 10 dose sow potions, and then tried to sell that char my 0 dose potion. It looked like it was going to work . The 0 dose potion showed as a viable item to sell to this buyer, and the "Sell" button is active unlike other items I don't have on me (so the UI thinks this is a valid trade). But, the sale did not go through, although everything appeared on the display as if it had (the sell button greyed out, and my item inventory was refreshed, and the 0 dose potion no longer was selected). But, the sale was not done ... the buyer char didnt have a 0 dose potion, and no pp was exchanged. So, it works as intended, but there should be some indication that the trade failed and why. Did /feedback on that.

[Trellium]

The Barter zone really, REALLY needs the map added to it, even on test server. The issue is that even when we set up a /buyer to do testing, few people find us to do anything. The Find feature isn't working yet, and the zone is very confusing to navigate since its a maze of rooms that are largely identical (especially when unpopulated such as it is now).

People in /ooc seem frustrated by that. Testing is being hampered by it, since we get very little action on our sellers, unless we go to the zone-in and show each person how to find us. That isn't very efficient, lol.

The only system I have thought of is to set my AFK message with the instructions of how to find me from the zone in ... but I still get people having problems even with that. Someone mentioned that signs would be so helpful at the first circular room.

Here is a verbal description of how to find our traders on TEST server (not Beta):

* Zone in from PoK, all you have to do is run up the steps toward the door, clicking isn't necessary.

* Follow hallway, take first left (going right here would take you to the stables).

* You arrive at a circular room. If you went South you go to another zoneout. If you went east you get to the tradeskill room. Take the northeast one passge, its to the right of the pottery wheel (the northwest passage to the left of the pottery wheel goes to an identical room, with identical portal, to another section of the trader maze).

* You should see a portal on the ground at the end of that hallway, step on to it.

* You arrive at another circular room. Nearby (to the south) is a small room with another portal on the ground, it takes you back to where you just came from. The bankers are in this area as well, its a big round room. There are many passages that you can leave by, but they all eventually come back to this banker area (info just in case you get lost). The bankers are near the portal spot that takes you back to the zoneout/stables/tradeskill areas.

* From the bankers, take the north passage, the one right near you when you portal up. Follow that, and on the left side of the next room is where we are.

You see why the map would be useful?

For buying, Sanadila uses either herself or one of her army of "Glendell's". She sells her tradeskill items in the bazaar with several "Glendell" characters, each with a slightly different name. She has some set up as Buyers as well in the new zone. Right now, I have Trelly buying the same items (we copied the item list between characters).

We set up our buyers for some common things such as spider silks. People come to Test, and make level 25 characters within a few minutes using /testbuff, but then feel like they have no money. Well, spend a bit of time farming greenies (to your new level 25 character), and collect a few items to sell to our buyers.

Then, maybe we will have more testing done for SOE

As far as a map goes - I have made a simple one up for Sana and I, and I am willing to post it if its permitted by SOE. As far as I unerstand it, the Barter zone isn't under the NDA, since its active and publicly available on test server. Anyone who has an active EQ account can check it out, so the map to it isn't really disclosing any secrets, its just making sense of what is there and removing some frustration from everyone testing it.

That said - both Sana and I are in the beta, and we did accept the NDA, so I won't post the map until an SOE rep says its ok to do so (hint, hint). Someone else who isn't in the Beta might post it, but we really can't without getting in to a grey area.

[Flacked]

In a word - Useless

I tested the new Barter System on the Test server today. In a word it is useless.

The biggest problem its that it still requres that players remain in the game in order to buy anything. You cannot set up an automated buyer and then go play EQ or log out. Players with dial up connections cannot remain in buyer mode 24/7. This means that a large number of EQ players (possibly the majority) are going to be excluded from using the barter system. Worse it means that there will be a lot lest trading going on since the market is smaller than it would be with automated traders. When the servers crash or the user has a brief internet outage, they get dumped form the system and may not log back on for days. This means that everything they are buying or selling is unavailable to other players.

EQ requires high end computers and graphics cards. These computers burn energy at a high rate. I think that in California it costs a lot more to run a computer for a full month than it costs for an EQ subscription. This is a huge waste of resources. SoE should be ashamed for designing a game that causes this much energy waste at a time when we are supposed to be conserving. Think of it this way: If you save your player's money on their power bills, they may chose to spend it on Sony products.

Other annoying features of the Barter System is that there is no seller window. You can list items you want to buy, how many and the price but there is no way to list items for sale as there is in the Bazaar. Worse the Bazaar and Barter System are in two different zones. There is no way to both buy and sell items at the same time.

In order to buy an item, you type in a name and search for it. I tested it and was able to find every droppable item I could think of. Unfotunately there is no way to display the item's stats. There is also no way to search for an item by stats so you could not, for example, find a breast piece with more HP you want to buy.

In the end the Barter System fails to meet the basic needs of most players. Sony needs to re-think this project from the beginning. They need to look at the far better ebay like trading systems on other MMRPGs which have solved this problem far more effectively.

{Remaining text removed by Verdandi. You can disagree and disapprove all you like, provided it remains courtous and on topic. But you can not personally attack any individuals, even indirectly. This includes SOE staff as well as anyone else. Consider yourself warned.}

[Trellium]

I tested the new Barter System on the Test server today. In a word it is useless.

Problem is, by your definition the new system is as "useless" as the existing bazaar system. I don't consider teh bazaar as useless, and I don't really want an automated mailbox system such as you seem to desire. As a Test server player, our traders go down at least once a day with server resets or patches ... its not really a big deal. When we get home we put them back up again.

In the end the Barter System fails to meet the basic needs of most players. Sony needs to re-think this project from the beginning. They need to look at the far better ebay like trading systems on other MMRPGs which have solved this problem far more effectively.

That is the worst possible solution, and those ebay type games are precisely the type of game I don't play them.

[Deedolith]

I tested the new Barter System on the Test server today. In a word it is useless.

The biggest problem its that it still requres that players remain in the game in order to buy anything. You cannot set up .....

The bazaar have the same issues and is far from useless.

EQ requires high end computers and graphics cards. These computers burn energy at a high rate. I think that in California .....

Athlon 1600+ / GEforce2 / 500Mo ram work just fine

Other annoying features of the Barter System is that there is no seller window. You can list items .....

this have already been answered, see previous posts

In order to buy an item, you type in a name and search for it. I tested it and was able to find every droppable item ......

That's why it is on Test.

Ho, in case you don't know, this isn't a whine message board.

[Dyllwin]

I hope this doesn't come across as a whine, because it's not meant to be, but I'm extremely disappointed that the bazaar and buyer zones are separate. I understand the concern about overloading the systems with the searches and people, but I know on my server and several others the bazaar population is already half of what it was months ago. Couple that with the reduction that will come as some people choose the barter system over selling in the bazaar and we may see the bazaar turn into a true ghost town. That doesn't help the people trying to sell, and it doesn't make things easier for the folks trying to buy or trade.

I don't know what the solution is, I just hope that the reason to separate has been thought through and is only being used because there's no other way, as opposed to separating it out because it's from a different expansion, meaning it needs to be made available to those who get DoN and not SoL....Better solution in that case would be to open up Bazaar to all, it's too old to be a selling factor anymore....

[Flacked]

So let me get this straight...

Let me get this straight. You DON'T want the extra items for sale that having more traders would bring to the game? You LIKE having to be in trader mode in order to buy or sell anything. You think that having separate zones to buy and sell makes sense somehow. You don't like the idea of an ebay like trading system but love whatever SoE provides. You think that all problems will somehow get fixed before it is released in two weeks. You see nothing wrong with SoE wasting energy by forcing tens of thousands of users to leave their computers on 24/7. There is no way you can imagine to improve the current barter and bazaar trading systems. You absolutely don't want any critical thinking in the forurm.

{Check your private messages - Verdandi}

[Dolaorn]

1st off flacked you don't have to be in trader mode to buy or sell anything anyway. If your server is like most you have a auction channel at your disposal, so if keeping a trader up isn't to your liking use that channel when your playing, just don't judge others who do put up traders when their asleep or at work. Second, the energy use isn't that bad for computers. Have a system that can support Everquest already do what I and others do. Set up your trader and turn off the monitor. This saves 1/3 of the energy as it is. Think about it, on your computer there are only 3 things involved in trader mode that draw electricity. The tower, the monitor and the modem. Turn off the monitor and you save power. Plus the energy concerns aren't that big of a deal, if you are seeing a jump in your energy bill right now, it's probably because your using more heating, due to it being winter. And like I said if you don't want to do that, use the auction channel to buy or sell items as you want, each person plays differently just as each person thinks differently, so if this idea dosn't appeal to you, don't use it.

[Deedolith]

Exactly, you can always play as you want. Using or not using the tools that SoE provide is your decision. There are alternative available out here.

{Post edited to remove personal attack. They are unwelcome against anyone, for any reason, period.}

[Trellium]

Let me get this straight. You DON'T want the extra items for sale that having more traders would bring to the game? You LIKE having to be in trader mode in order to buy or sell anything. You think that having separate zones to buy and sell makes sense somehow. You don't like the idea of an ebay like trading system but love whatever SoE provides. You think that all problems will somehow get fixed before it is released in two weeks. You see nothing wrong with SoE wasting energy by forcing tens of thousands of users to leave their computers on 24/7. There is no way you can imagine to improve the current barter and bazaar trading systems. You absolutely don't want any critical thinking in the forurm.

{Check your private messages - Verdandi}

I like having more items for sale, sure but I have no confidence whatsoever that the ideas/complaints Flacked states will do that, most likely it will do the opposite.

I like being in trader mode ... duh. I like the layout, and I like being attached to the system while I make sales, and if I randomly see a person asking for help, to be able to offer it ... and not have a completely dumbed down vendor-machine system like the ones he glorifies. "Never talk to customers! Its PERFECT!!!".

I see relatively few problems with the system as it sits now, don't see an issue with getting them fixed from what I have seen, and if they do find more issues they will patch fixes in, as they usually do.

My computers are on 24/7 anyway, I don't give a rats ass if they are also connected to EQ.

I am all for critical thinking, I am against abusive thinking though.

[Aryse Andenter]

So, I went to take a look at this the other day, and I have to say I was not impressed. There were only a handful of people set up, but as it was, it took me half an hour of running around to be able to find them since the find command didn't work. Even if it did work, the idea of trying to follow the glowy path through those twists and turns and ramps.... well, it will be awkward and annoying, to say the least!

I found the windows a bit confusing and it took me quite a while to figure out how to look for things and how to set up myself. I suppose it is just learning it, but the bazaar window is dummy friendly I found it clumsy trying to put the right things up and verifying what I had done was what I wanted.

I also see it as a problem that it is not integrated into the bazaar system. Having to search in two different zones, and try to decide which to set up in for the night, is just annoying to me. Also - in my view, it will be the same players who do one or the other - the only way you get more people doing it and have it taxing in terms of lag and so on is when you leave it as two zones and two different systems, and people begin to set up a second account for it. If they were integrated I doubt you would see much of an increase in 'traders/buyers', it would probably be the same people who have always setup in the bazaar who will want to set up as a buyer as well.

But, the biggest challenge for me in use of the system is making sure that find command does work. Even the find command in the bazaar refuses to help me sometimes, and that zone is a whole lot more straightforward. If the find command doesn't work, I can say for sure I will just never bother with the system - because, seriously, wandering around for 30 min to find one player and trade an item? No thanks!!

(Yes, go ahead and make fun of me, I am directionally challenged.)

[Boleslav]

I don't think folks will make fun of you, or your post. You were civil, and thoroughly explained your criticisms.

The find issues can be fixed (hopefully), and I bet the volume of users will rise dramatically when this goes live on production servers.

Sounds like the design of the zone was done to keep lag to a minimum, based on the grief they had making the Bazaar work properly. Sometimes the pendulum swings a bit too far when something is done in reaction to another thing, and this may be the case here.

One idea for the Find function would be to let you call up a map, and have your location and the vendor's location marked somehow so you can navigate to it. This may be important if the current find system remains buggy in the barter area.

Boleslav Forgehammer
Paladin of Brell in his 66th Campaign
E'ci – Sacred Destiny

[Maevenniia]

I still think it needs to be open like the bazar, in one large area instead of many small buyer rooms. Lag is a non-isue, since they have the "Hide Buyers" button, imo.

[Kakg]

One issue I might have is the idea of the new buildings in PoK being near the western trader building.

Me, I'm a gnome. I'm not tall enough to bank at the Main bank in PoK so I make use of Dogle's bank. I even rent out the room above the bank from Dogle so I have somewhere to sleep after each days adventuring.

At the moment the vast majority of trade goes through the main bank as this is the one closest to the heart of the PoK - the Nexus Stone MGB area. It strikes me if these new buildings are erected next to the western trader building it will shift the focus of PoK and may bring extra pressure on Dogle's bank.

Now Dogle is a mate and while I don't begrudge him the extra business such a move will bring him I'm already sick to the back teeth with having to dodge out of the way of ignorant trolls and ogres feet while I'm trying to conduct financial transactions. Could someone PLEASE tell them to wash between thier toes after wading through the Plane of Disease, the smell is atrocious.

I feel very strongly about this matter and will be taking up my complaint with the New Tanaan Board of Planning. We just can't have people erecting buildings willy nilly in the PoK without thought for the residents.

(No, seriously folks. I can't help but think that placing these buildings over next to the the western trader building will put extra pressure on Dogle's bank and for us small folks its a real pain to have to dodge around everyone elses feet and legs to bank as it is.)

Expert Tinker Zmatil.
Gnomish representative of the New Tanaan Residents Action Commitee for Sensible Planning (and Clean Feet).