Some possibilities for 1750 skilled folks in future expansion...

[Aryse Andenter]

Yes, that means that level 12 players will not be able to craft items desired by level 65 characters in the plane of time -- I'm ok with this. But it would be nice for level 65 characters to be able to craft things that are desired by other level 65 characters.

Yes, this is exactly what is intriguing to me. By players having to be higher level and have met challenges like getting flagged, and it being a smaller more select group, maybe then they will be willing to make the reward that much better that it would actually be useful to the player themselves, or their immediate peers in game, instead of just having to sell down.

I would really like to see those who actually take the time and effort to get to 1750 be rewarded for that - it is a huge accomplishement and a huge amount of work and time and pp. And they don't get anything for taking their skills that extra step.

*
If making a new skill is too hard, why not make getting the new container in the style of a quest? You could have to speak with an NPC (who would check you have the required skills or even ask to 'see' some of your trophies) and who would then give you a container to be used for these new combines (maybe even consumed each time). The same container could be used for all of the new items (I'm thinking of something like The Collector's Box from Curator Merri).
*

Having even ten new items that players who raid would at least consider using would be wonderful beyond words.

[Bolas]

Exactly... being able to make items that people would want to buy... and even more, to use.. would be awesome. The elemental bows were the kind of item that is a perfect example of what a tradeskill should be -- stuff that is desired and used by high end raiding guilds.

-Bolas

[Dyllwin]

I'm all for making items that are desired by the high level players, but doing that by creating a new skill that only folks with AA to burn can have access to is just plain wrong.

If you're going for 1750 for any other reason then bragging rights and the ability to make anything with the best chance possible then I think you have the wrong idea. 1750 shouldn't be a door to better recipes or new tradeskills, each skill should only depend on another as far as cross-combines.

[The Judge, Alchem]

Well I have always been into tradeskiling, and more than that I have always loved getting my own components. And that's why I think you Verandi, while I have always resepcted your opinions on most things here, I think your misinformed to the way things go in the Elementals. I let everyone know when I set up the group that I will forfeit my split to get the Tainted Essences and Immaculate Steel and Liq. Earth. While some are cool with it , most aren't. Most people who have forged ahead to get planes power are fighting for components just like you. I have to explain to Random_Bazaar_Mule_1000 that I would use the component and not just sell the raw ingredient to make the profit. While I think they should go along with this, it's not going to happen. No matter if there are nothing but TS'ers in the Planes we will still have to fight to get components at a decent price to make skill-ups or just make items. It's pretty hard to convince that same guy that you NEED those Obsidianwood Saps so you can do a quest when he's getting 25k a piece for em in the Bazaar.


Now about the tradeskill trophy. You suggested in the first post about combining all the trophies for a new tradeskill container, but what happens to my trophies that I spent so much time on. The ones that I spent al kinds of cash, gave up leveling, no groups or anything just to have it. Heck I even used my Alchemy bag in my range slot for a long itme and I couldn't see giving up, ever.

As much as I LOVE the super trophy idea, I would be more excited to see them take an more active role in trying to fix these corrupt server economies. It would all start with the people stop paying that much for these items. Just cause you have all day to stay at home and farm and buy and sell, doesn't mean that when I get home I want to find out that all Rangers are trying to scrape up a 120k base to buy a SEOC because you did. That kind of stuff sucks.

[Tudani]

I have to completely agree with Verdandi on this.

Alchem, I suggest you go to the elementals with friends instead of pickup groups, or realize that in a pickup group everybody is in it for themselves. The only things that drop there for single groups that are worth anything are tradeskill components, and the non skillers in the group have as much right to benefit from that as anybody. You might suggest offering them 10 - 15k per each sap that they can split between the rest of the group, most groups would then have no problem with letting you have the saps.

[Verdandi]

Well I have always been into tradeskiling, and more than that I have always loved getting my own components. And that's why I think you Verandi, while I have always resepcted your opinions on most things here, I think your misinformed to the way things go in the Elementals.

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with me on, Alchem. I didn't say that tradeskill components are easy to get in the elementals. I said that people who can get to the elementals already have the reward of being able to use a zone that many of the rest of us can't. (And that many of those who can't are held back only due to an inability to regularly play for long stretches to raid for the flags, not to a lack of effort, skill, or time played overall.) My point is that to make additional tradeskills contingent on elemental access is unfair to those of us who can't get there and goes against the grain of what tradeskills should be. "Should" being my personal opinion, of course.

I can't comment on how hard it is to get drops by hunting in the elementals because I can't hunt in them. I can say they certainly seem too rare, based on Bazaar prices. I spent over 50k for components for inferno chain gloves (and then had it fail on me). So I can certainly sympathize to a point.

BUT...all that is really not relevent to the super trophy point. Elementals came up because Bolas used them as a suggestion for where the components for the proposed new tradeskill would come from. Adjusting the current drops (and adding new ones) would presumably be a part of making the changes Bolas suggests.

[Qilue Shar'Molo]

I have to say; though I am no where near 250 in all my trade skills I like this super trophy Idea... Simple Quest

Speak to so and so, get 10 slot bag, put all (7) trophies in it, click combine, turn it in and Receive Gem of Talent (Str: +35 Cha: +175 Wis: +35 Int: +35) (that’s ½ of the total stats from all 7 tropies)

I do NOT like the idea of giving the Privileged more Privileges Everything seems to be heaped onto the High end raiding guild, all the best Tradeskill made items already come from the Eps and sell for asctonomical ammounts on every server. I don't like the idea of giving EP flagged people another way to make buttloads of money.

[Faerwynd]

I do NOT like the idea of giving the Privileged more Privileges Everything seems to be heaped onto the High end raiding guild, all the best Tradeskill made items already come from the Eps and sell for asctonomical ammounts on every server. I don't like the idea of giving EP flagged people another way to make buttloads of money.

I'm going to argue here and flat out call you wrong. Price on most EP TS items on my server (dro) at least has dropped to a half-third of what it was - probably because more and more guilds are getting EP flagged (there are roughly a dozen on my server, and last I checked we were behind most servers), and with GoD gear available people don't WANT EP TS gear. I can't believe my server is unique in this respect.

Hi end is not being EP flagged anymore. There are a number of servers that have open raids on every EP flagging target now. If the drops were in GoD in Tacvi or something I might have some sympathy for you. Personally, I think the drops should be off of level 65+ monsters - so that means GoD or EP or OoW

[Moraganth]

EP is still high end to non-raiders.

I am in firm agreeance... NO tradeskill component should be in a locked/keyed/flagged zone that a non-raider cannot get into. Tradeskills weren't about raiding until PoP. Now, all of the most desirable ts item components are in zones that require large, high end raids to gain access to. This is an artificial limit that gives the monopoly of components to a small fraction of people, and destroys the marketability of things below that.

And no.. paying some uber_loot_*****_23 farmer for components isn't access. It doesn't matter if it's half, a third, a whatever of what they used to be... THEY SHOULDN'T BE ACCESSABLE TO ONLY RAIDING GUILDS.

Tradeskills are.. get this... TRADESKILLS. They SHOULD NOT be a reward for uber_guild_raiders.

[Spirish]

Amen Moraganth!

[Faerwynd]

Aside from having the TS necessary to do the quest, the drop should be hard to obtain.

Odds are good the drop would be in GoD or OoW, is the 'non raider' going to be able to handle those zones? Skill can only make up the gap in gear to a certain point, after that, you HAVE to have better gear. The average BoT tank will be as successful as a wizard when trying to tank in KT (as a harsh example)

[The Judge, Alchem]

I didn't say that tradeskill components are easy to get in the elementals. I said that people who can get to the elementals already have the reward of being able to use a zone that many of the rest of us can't.

---You said it exactly right when you used the word "reward." It is a reward for us because we sacrificed and did whatever it took to get there, so yes it's a reward, and rewards are earned not given.

(And that many of those who can't are held back only due to an inability to regularly play for long stretches to raid for the flags, not to a lack of effort, skill, or time played overall.)

---Actually this statement seems hiporcritical to me. To get the flags you have to spend time and effort to get flagged there, so if you don't make the sacrifices or the extra effort then you will be stuck where you are, that's your choice. Voicing how you think others should be penalized or stricken of their rewards for this effort and play time that you can not commit is obsurd and comes off a little whiney. You are right that skill has nothing to do with it. You can ride coat tails and piggyback all the way there to EP, I have seen people do it. But then again, that takes time and effort. An earlier suggestion was right on point when suggesting open raids on your server might be an option, or get the strats and lead one. Heck I'll give ya strats to accomplish that goal.

My point is that to make additional tradeskills contingent on elemental access is unfair to those of us who can't get there and goes against the grain of what tradeskills should be. "Should" being my personal opinion, of course.

---If this is your opinion, and your entitled to your own, then you're missing everything EQ is about, progression, development, and constant challenges. I have arguements about TSing with the straight melee people in my guild and server all the time but it doesn't change the fact that if your going to be a TS'er then you do what's neccessary to get the itmes you want. It goes the same way for basic loot, gear wise. If they dropped liquified earth in Butcherblock no one would make the effort to actually play the game which means progression. It isn't a reward for getting EP flagged either, it's a bonus we get to reaching this plateau and it IS fitting of the accomplishment. Restricting drops to zones that require no forward progression in the game, and I don't mean just flagging and keying, which be ridiculous and would be taking a step back for SOE as I see it. You saying it's unfair to those who "can't" get there is a bit whiney. You can get there, you choose not to or to not find a way to get there.

I can't comment on how hard it is to get drops by hunting in the elementals because I can't hunt in them. I can say they certainly seem too rare, based on Bazaar prices. I spent over 50k for components for inferno chain gloves (and then had it fail on me). So I can certainly sympathize to a point.

---They are expensive because that's what people will pay for them, not just because of rarity. This goes back to the last paragraph in my earlier post about the economy. People sell things based on what people will pay, plain and simple. Supply and demand is all, and I think we are all familiar with this system.

BUT...all that is really not relevent to the super trophy point. Elementals came up because Bolas used them as a suggestion for where the components for the proposed new tradeskill would come from. Adjusting the current drops (and adding new ones) would presumably be a part of making the changes Bolas suggests.

--And his point was valid and strong. A super trophy should mean more than gathering up components in n00bie zones and making combines til you get it right. This is EQuest, it should be a quest to obtain much, if not all, of the most prized posessions in this game. If it was so easy as your suggesting it be there wouldn't be thousands on each server everyday, instead they would playing Diablo 2. People log in everyday because of different reasons but they all play the game for the same reason, challenges.


Now I read and re-read my post several times and yes I might come off like I went on a tangent, but I assure I'm not. Verandi, I have always taken your advice and contributions back to my guildmates and servermates and help them in high regard, but you're wrong here my friend. This game presents challenges that either you will overcome or you will find a way to be happy hunting in PoP or Velious. I use to think the same thing before I was flagged and keyed. I joined a raiding guild about 2 months ago, maybe a week or two less. I had no real flags except for PoJ trials and had 0 keys. Within two weeks I put in the effort to get Emp keyed, ST, VT, and all the way Elemental access, in "2" weeks time. It took some sacrificing and rearranging but I'm now there reaping the rewards. It can be done you just have to want it enough. If people are fine sitting in early expansions that's great, I'll see you in the bazaar buying me left overs.


There's nothing wrong with that, but don't create the arguement that I, or any EP flagged personnel or higher, should be stricken of rewards, access to them, or tell us that our sacrifice and effort means nothing because we aren't part of the elitest group you guys seemed to have formed, that has the overall opinion that anyone who makes forward progression instead of sitting in the first 3 expansions doesn't deserve these rights to these loots and are not real TS'ers. I expect the same people who complained about these drops being in higher zones, will be complaining that they actually have to form a raid or two to get their Epic 2.0, or that it is to hard and requires too much, come on guys let's get real here.

[Ngreth Thergn]

Be Nice.

Only warning.

[Ngreth Thergn]

. Voicing how you think others should be penalized or stricken of their rewards for this effort and play time that you can not commit is obsurd and comes off a little whiney.

Where did anyone say they want to "strike" a reward from EP flaged folks?

Yes there was an opinoin stated that you should not be given an ADITIONAL reward... but nowhere did anyone say that a reward should be REMOVED (whish is what Striking implys).

Like you say... access to these place has its own reward. Faster EXP, better drops, better access to rare tradeskill components, often (not always) a Large groups of freinds...

Now I am also, not stating that I support a super trophy for people not EP flaged... but I do support that it should not be restricted to only EP folks if it does happen... EVEN if that is only that the parts are NOT ND, so that non EP tradeskillers can purchase the parts.

[The Judge, Alchem]

My point is that to make additional tradeskills contingent on elemental access is unfair to those of us who can't get there and goes against the grain of what tradeskills should be. "Should" being my personal opinion, of course.

Right here is your answer Ngreth, albeit not visible to the naked eye. What I took from this statement is that he is asking, pleading, whatever you want to call it to not have high-end tradeskill items, or anything tradeskill related, be limited to EP zones. How can that be without taking, or "striking", this resource from the EP folks. If you take a item such as this, then create a scenario where you have lvl 51 mains hunting in the previous three expansions and not progressing through as intended by releasing new content. When a package is released by Sony what does it say? New exciting challenges in new zones, hundreds of new tradsekill items . blah blah blah. This means it's new to the game then it's new to these zones and will be obtained mainly through them. That means more progression, again, reinforcing my point.

I totally agree with you Ngreth on not making items for these super trophies, or any other stature item, not all be ND in the zones that require keys or flags . . .but wouldn't that be asking them to make it easier on us? -That's not EQ IMO but I'm willing to compromise here on the pure fact it's logical. We should stick to asking them to fix real bugs, like when people sit in zones doing trials that are broke for over 6 hours that lead to weeks when they are finished, or the slim drop rate of Spiderling Silk-these are real issues to me not the discussion of why the really hard combines have the ingredients in hard zones, it's running a circle around a moot subject. EQ will always require us to be inventive, ingenius, overcome and adapt to reach their goals they set forth and to reach our own personal goals. Having it handed to you because you can not afford to play more than hour is not really base for re-implementing items into another part of the game to suit the casual player. Let's look at it from the devs side of things. We expect them to make provisions to keep the casual players and not the hardcore?-Seems that would be a reversed opinion based on logic, it won't happen nor do I believe it will. But then again, EQ is for everybody and I want ti to stay that way, but I will take rewards for my EQ success and revel in the fact that only a few have achieved it, that's what makes it special.

I guess what really gets me upset over this subject is the fact that the people who make comments about not having it available to them are the same ones who I see all day buying and selling in the Bazaar and never playing. Making all kinds of high end tradeskill items from boughten materials to sell them back for profit. You got the right to do what you want, but if you're going to manage your EQ time like this then complaining about not having ample play time or not being able to put in the effort it requires, just doesn't seem liek a good arguement to me when your making more cash per day than I have had all my EQ career . . . I hope you can see my point on this. If it's kept the way it is now, we will see no lvl 1 toons walking around with supertrophies and less people with items of stature. Most items of stature are so easy to get to now that they don't mean what they did when they were first released.

--Off topic, I appreciate your PMs and your concern over the tone of this topic. I hope you can see no one is getting heated here, we all just have our hearst in this and believe each one of us right. Sorry if I offended anyone or came off to brash or bitter, it was not my point.