Craft Augmentations, SOE needs input

[kiztent]

I can see the situation where an Augument Recipe is setup to make a minor augment... say +5 HP. If that Augment is applicable to ANY Slot, on any Piece of equipment... there is nothing currently that would stop a Tradeskiller from producing 10 of these, and putting one in each of 10 items they wear. Ending up with +50HP. Now, if you say... well 50HP isn't much for a level 65... and you are correct... but for a Level 20? or a Level 1?

Augments, just like other equipment needs to be balanced to not trivialize encounters.

I'm not sure I'd be overly concerned about trivializing level 1. I mean, that's trivializing, oh, 10 minutes of EQ?

Augments would be a power increase. But they are already. 5 percent of my shaman's mana pool is augments. So is 36 points of his wisdom. That's not counting the LDoN purchased and augmented armour he wears (FT3 for starters there).

To prevent this sort of overpowering... the Augment would have to be either:
1. LORE - Which makes resellers upset... they can't stock more than one at a time
2. Single Slot - Which makes buyers upset... if they already have something in their belt's augment slot... the augment does them no good.
3. LORE when APPLIED to an Augment Slot... Not sure if they can make this work with the current mechanics.

I am not sure what the solution is... I am just highlighting what some of the pitfalls I see.

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=42205

solid coal of prowess: 40HP aug, recommended level of 65. 31 HP aug at 50, 12HP aug at 20. If a level 20 can afford to pay for 12 HP what a level 65 will for 40... let them.

Personally, I wouldn't mind paying a bit of money for a 3 wis aug for slot 7 (throw a recommended level of, say, 60 on those). Yes, the augs I get on adventures are better. But 3 wis in a slot is better than 0 wis in a slot. If the augs were cheap enough I'd buy them to fill all my aug slots and throw them away if I ever saw an augment drop in an advent (5 of my 6 wis augs are pre-GoD before you ask). By cheap enough, I mean I'd pay 1kpp without blinking (though I'd consider waiting until the undercutters took the market down lower). Make them cheaper still and I'd swap destroyable augments in and out to alter my resists as I upgrade gear.

[Sylphan]

I'd like to see the augment recipes require dropped augments as a component. That way they can't be mass produced, and it wouldn't be a retroactive upgrade either -- augments already placed on armor wouldn't get to be upgraded, only new ones.

Add a recipe with a trivial of about 300 that uses one dropped +6 int augment and some viscous mana, maybe a bar of velium... and if successful makes a +9 augment. Then make a recipe that uses one dropped +30hp augment, some mana and velium, and if successful makes a +40hp augment.

In the long run you'd end up with non-tradeskillers filled up with +6 int and 30hp augments, while tradeskillers fill up with +9 int and 40hp augments. A small advantage for the tradeskillers. If you made the new augments tradeable, though, it would have a whole different dynamic... tradeskillers would tend to sell their creations rather than keeping them.

I'd also like to see recipes that combine two augments into one -- a way to combine a +6 int and a +6 str to make a single augment that's +6 int +6 str. Or even a way to combine two +6 int augments into a single +12 int augment.

[Zephaus]

We had some ideas for some pottery augments come up in this thread about the future of pottery in the pottery section...

[Kilauea Bacchus]

For baking, would it be possible to make an augment that would make a given food last longer? Not necessarily to put ON food, but to put on an item you have that gives you increased metabolism similar to the AA? Same for brewing.

[Angahran]

I'd like to see the augment recipes require dropped augments as a component. That way they can't be mass produced, and it wouldn't be a retroactive upgrade either -- augments already placed on armor wouldn't get to be upgraded, only new ones.

Dropped augs are NODROP, so these 'tradeskilled' augs would also be NODROP?

Add a recipe with a trivial of about 300 that uses one dropped +6 int augment and some viscous mana, maybe a bar of velium... and if successful makes a +9 augment. Then make a recipe that uses one dropped +30hp augment, some mana and velium, and if successful makes a +40hp augment.

I don't know if it is just me or perhaps the SoE brainwashing isn't working or something.
But it really confuses me when people post suggestions for tradeskills and seem to deliberately make them as difficult and painful as possible.
Usually the initial idea is quite good, then it seems as if the poster thinks that by making it rediculously difficult to actually make the item perhaps SoE may listen.

e.g.

Idea: Make tradeskilled augments - (Nice idea, how can we make this so difficult that noone will actually do it?)

So, to make an aug, you need a dropped aug, plus a foraged component (from an elemental plane), plus a bottle of super-viscious mana, plus Innoruuks wristwatch pickpocketed by a karana worshipping half-elven rogue.

That'll work well.

This isn't aimed at anyone, just a general observation on many posts I've seen here.

[Akishka]

Well the reason that things are expanded to be more difficult is because if we said "ok, give me everything I want and make it so all I have to do is kill a spiderling" Sony would laugh and move on. However, if we came up with ideas that are actually in line with things that are currently in EQ, we stand a chance of at least being listened to. Much like a little kid asking his Mom for that $5 toy instead of that $500 toy, we know what we can reasonably get away with and whats really a waste of breath.

[Niellya]

Much like a little kid asking his Mom for that $5 toy instead of that $500 toy, we know what we can reasonably get away with and whats really a waste of breath.

Actually the point was that it's more like a kid asking his mom if she would buy the $5 toy for him after he cleans his room, washes the car, takes out the trash, cleans the rest of the house and mows the lawn.

When the mom would have gladly bought the toy for the kid if all he offered was to clean his room.

[Draggar]

I'm drooling right now, trust me, I am!!!

Reverse augs - I LOVE IT!!!

Use tailoring or smithing to create a base item, then pottery, jewelcraft to make the augmentations. Excellent idea, KyrosKrane!!

Hmm, fletching - used for archery / range augs. Add a range aug to give you a + range modifier for thrown weapons, or apply one to a bow to give it extra dmg or range. Augs on arrows = bad idea. Add an aug to a quiver to give it more "haste".

Baking and brewing could be used to make endurance, STA augs.

Poison making and alchemy could be used to make performance enhancing modifiers.

Oh, the possibilities are endless!!

Make a basic aug with JC, then incorperate that into a higher level smithing aug, then add that into an even higher pottery aug, then on to tailoring! Take your tailored item and 'coat' it with a brewing aug.

An augmentation class! Or even a charm / aug crafting skill - charm crafting!

Don't forget, we could also get +% melee augs, +% fishing mods (stackable, throw it on your Fisherman's companion!), more +% tradeskill augs to throw on your geerlok, or even the tradeskill container (just don't augment the brew barrel!), +%tracking augs!

I could go on forever!

+movement speed aug for boots! Charms for every occasion! Rogues and shamen can augment their potions and poisons, making them ore effective or longer lasting!

Very high level (raid level?) AA augs!

Why do the high end items need to have a 'limiting item'? Make it common items, but an insane failure rate. 335 is roughly a 50% success rate at 250, why not make that item trivial at 1000? How about a limiting item that's only available from a merchant in the Coldain fort in caves under EW? How about an expensive NoDrop item for an elf only combine deep inside Calabis? Level limiting could easily be done with NoDrop sold items in the planes.

[Ngreth Thergn]

Why do the high end items need to have a 'limiting item'? Make it common items, but an insane failure rate. 335 is roughly a 50% success rate at 250, why not make that item trivial at 1000? How about a limiting item that's only available from a merchant in the Coldain fort in caves under EW? How about an expensive NoDrop item for an elf only combine deep inside Calabis? Level limiting could easily be done with NoDrop sold items in the planes.

#1, success chance never gets bellow 5%. (unless they change the formula, which makes 398 the point at which there is only a 5% chance)

#2, bots. With #1 this is a nightmare... you have someone with the ability to make 10000 combines and therefore get 500 of the augs on average.

Basically it needs to be limited in such a way that bots don;t make a large diference in the ammount coming into the market.

[Draggar]

#2, bots. With #1 this is a nightmare... you have someone with the ability to make 10000 combines and therefore get 500 of the augs on average.

Basically it needs to be limited in such a way that bots don;t make a large diference in the ammount coming into the market.

Forgot about the truly evil, worse than any troll, Iksar, dark elf, and Ogre combined!

Lets keel zem. Keel zem all!

*Your faction standing with the Botters could not possibly get any worse.
(Oh yes it can...)

[Metra]

I like the idea that crafting an augment should require multiple tradeskills.

[Arista]

Removing Augments

What I would like to see is a new tradeskill process that can be used to remove augments (with a chance to preserve the removed augment).

On a successful combine, it will return both the item (with augment gone) and the augment that was removed. On a failed combine, it will return the item only, much like the way it is now.

The trivial level can be set as high as needed by SOE to prevent abuse. But having at least some chance to keep the augment will make upgrading gear much less painful, especially if lots of hard-earned points were spent to buy the augment. This would also be somewhat like a reward for the people who took the time to work up their tradeskills, since the higher your skill, the better chance you have of preserving your augment.

Currently I've been holding off on buying any augments for fear that I may outgrow the gear soon, so having an enhancement like this would really help me out.

[Myrron]

I like all the ideas posted here. Some things I read that I really liked (just to show my support of them):

• Droppable augments (would create a great new niche for the bazaar)
• Multiple tradeskills. Smithing or jewelcraft for the initial making of one, pottery to finish it up perhaps, etc. Please don't require 250 in all trades though, I would think it would be more beneficial to have a nice range of tradeskill levels required. Easy ones can be made by people with around a 100 skill level, raid-level augments might require a 250 skill in one field and 200 in the others.

Some thoughts of my own:

If it's at all possible, it might just be easier to make a new trade, an "augmentor" tradeskill. It might require base levels from other trades, but the final combine would make use of your augmentor skill level. Example: You collect some pieces, use your jewelcraft skill to mount a few gems, use your smithing skill to make an augment base, then use your augmentor skill level to try and combine the mounted gem and the base together.

Perhaps more likely, and something I'd really like to see, is some cultural augments. New cultural gear has been missing for a good while. Imagine the powerful and wise iksar shamen who for centuries has carried a recipe of great power, and only now have they found a way to bestow that power into a stone. The wood elves, with their closeness to nature, have finally found a way to harness it into a gem. The final augment would of course be race restricted (and maybe have some deity restrictions, but not necessary) but tradeable, and be a highly desireable item to any class of that race. Maybe ogres and iksars can create better regeneration augments than what are currently available. Or, perhaps, specific focus effects could be made for racial augments. It would make sense from a storyline point of view that racial augments could be introduced, since Wayferers can be of any race, and by now The Brotherhood has had time to really study items collected from LDoN adventures. Wayfarers of specific races have probably invested more time studying certain augments than others (why would Erudites want to study items with a lot of wisdom? They would probably focus more on the intelligence augments) and are finally ready to try and create their own.

There's a lot of possibilities here, I hope many from this thread are taken into consideration. Let us know how things progress whenever you have time!

--Myrron Lifewarder

P.S. Please let us remove and keep all kinds of augments!

[Yakk]

3 "styles" of tradeskill augments.

The first are just "normal" augments. They fit in the standard augment slots, but are probably not NO DROP.

The first kind has the disadvantage that it obsoletes low end augments from existing LDoN sources.

The second are "extra slot" augments. Add a "type 9" augment slot to (most if not all) armor, and have either all or a class of tradeskill items be a "type 9".

The second kind have a significant advantage: you can make the gains small or large, and they don't displace LDON adventures for gathering gear.

The third are "whole item" augments. Add a "type 10" augment slot to vendor-purchased NO DROP low or no-stat items.

You augment the low or no-stat item with a tradeskilled augment specifically for that slot.

Example:
Custom Plate Breastplate: 20 AC, 10 HPs, 5 sta, 1 type 7 1 type 10 slot, NO DROP. Vendor sold for a nominal price.
Custom Plate Greaves: 10 AC, 5 agi, 1 type 7 1 type 10 slot, NO DROP. Vendor sold for a nominal price.
Custom Chain Cuirass: 10 AC, 10 END/MANA, 5 str, 5 dex, 1type 7, 1 type 10 slot, NO DROP

Reinforcing Bands: +10 AC, +20 HPs, 5.0 weight, any "armor" slot. Cheap and easy to make.

Hard to make:
Blessing of Tunare: +20 AC, +60 HPs, +10 cha, +30 END/MANA, +10 PR, +3 ATK, slot 10 only, LORE, Chest, Legs
Favour of Tunare: +15 AC, +40 HPs, +50 END/MANA, +5 cha, +5 int, +5 wis, +5 DR, +7 ATK, slot 10 only, LORE, Chest, Legs, Head, Wrists

End result items
Custom Plate BP (augmented): 40 AC, 70 hps, 30 end/mana, 5 sta, 10 cha, 10 PR, 3 ATK, 1 slot 7 empty, LORE, CHEST
Custom Plate Greaves (augmented): 25 AC, 40 HPS, 5 cha int wis agi, 50 end/mana, 7 ATK, 1 slot 7 empty, LORE LEGS

The interesting part is, these items are tradeskilled but not reuseable. A form of NO DROP tradeskill items, with all the economic benefits.

"good" Augments made via this process should be LORE before they can be used, or have extreme slot restrictions, as a general rule. This means that if there is a single amazing augment, you can't load your character down with it.

Lastly, I would advise having creative slot restrictions.

For example:
JC produces finger/ear/neck augments
Smithing produces chest/leg/arm augments (from studs to plates)
Tailoring produces foot/hand/back/belt augments (gloves, boots, belts and cloaks)
Baking produces face augments (smells)
Pottery produces head/wrist augments (bangles!)
Fletching produces range slot augments

Smithing and JC produce 1/2 HS weapon augments
Pottery and Smithing produce 1 HB weapon augments
Tailoring produces H2H weapon augments
Fletching and Smithing produces 2 HB weapon augments (staffs for fletching)
Smithing and Pottery produce shield augments
Fletching produces bow augments

What this does is divide the markets between the tradeskills in a way different than it has been done historically. Everyone under this system needs something from a tailor, not just the leather and silk classes.

[Moraganth]

Slightly off topic (only because Maddoc posted here).. was it my imagination, or was part of a sony post within the past couple days saying that augments would be reusable soon?

I may have misread, i may have been asleep and dreaming.. but i coulda swore that came up somewhere. If so, then that alters the discussion a bit, if they can be stripped off items to reuse.