Craft Augmentations, SOE needs input

[Ngreth Thergn]

One idea to make it "more realistic" is...

Go ahead and have anyone be able to use whatever skill to make parts for the augment. Then make a final combine that is either low fail (trivial 5 pottery) or no fail in the kiln to make a piece that "fits" So combine that Sow potion with "absorbtive clay:" in the kiln to make the augment.

Also...

If there are raid level augments... no matter how much people may hate this, they need to be as rare (but don't forget failure rate in the drop rate calculations)

Also... the "augments make the item" idea can be a way to have tradeskillers make items that are "worthy" but then end up not being tradeable in the end (more thoguht needs to go into this thought and I don;t have time!! will try and post more tomorrow)

[Koru]

Pottery is the closest thing we have to glassworking, so pottery augments could be called glass beads or something similar.

Further thought for specific skills: How letting various skills make items used by another skill to make an aug?

Example: Joe the Rogue makes augment component using a black pearl, a distilled version of one of this poisons and a clear mana vial, a small black sphere called Essence of the Cobra. Now Joe doesn't have pottery skill, so instead he gets Dave the Potter to make Glassy Sphere of the Cobra for him using Essence of the Cobra, High Quality Glassworkers Kit, weapon sketch, essence bonder and sand of ro. The result is a +5 Agi +5 Dex, 50 poison proc, weapons only augment. Or Dave could have used an armor sketch and HQ Ceramic kit in place of the weapon sketch for a +5agi +5 Dex +15 hp augment Orb of the Cobra that could go in armor.

The thing to remember about this is that while ultra augs that give equivallent of cultural stats on plain base items are nice, there'd still be a nice market for lower augments. Heck, I'd buy as many poison resistance items as I could for my woefully under-resistant paladin. And to pure melee tradeskillers a few low stat +int or wis augs could make a very nice difference. Ultra augs (the ones you'd insert into the statless base item and that had cultural stats) should probably get their own type, and possibly have some deity/class/race restrictions if such a thing is possible through the coding. They could and should also have recommended or required levels to prevent 1st lvl twinks running around with Elemental quality BP through augs.

I can see each of the tradeskill getting a speciality so to speak. Or perhaps initially a smaller more managable list of stats that relate best to the skill. It's always possible to expand later on.

Brewers: Glob of Grobb's liquid for GLM type stats
Bakers: Ground Essence of the Brownie :P For some of the stats found on MPTs. I see brewers and bakers making augs with more multiple stats, but with lower numbers on those stats than the others. More versatility, but not as high stats.

Pottery: I'd actually want to see this one get focus effect types. There's a few FEs that aren't on any of the LDoN augs that would be nice to see.

Tailoring: Silken Braid of Wu! Ok, maybe not. Insanity Ribbon of the Solstice maybe? Int, wis and dex would look best here, it's something I for one associate with Tailoring.

JC: Again one with big potential. JC covers all stats, so to a degree they should get that as well in augments.

Smithing: Strength and AC are the most obvious stats here, possibly also hps.

Restricted skills:
Alchemy: Alchemy traditionally has spell effects. If it's possible to make a new type of augments that can only be added to items with no click effect that would add a click effect to the item this would be the natural choice. If not, a wide variety of stat augs would work well here. I'm thinking more base stats here than in JC, but not as many hp/mana/end or resistance ones.

Make poison: Great choice for weapon proc augs, agi, dex and poison/disease resistance would also fit in nicely within this trade. Besides, the rogues could use some sellable stuff and this would not break any major boundaries since it's in complete roleplaying harmony with the class.

Tinkering: This is going to sound weird perhaps, but I think tinkerers should among other things get melee focuses. They're the perfect bunch for it, a group of people who tinker with machines all the time. As machines are not usually known for their great intelligence or charming common sense I could see their augs having hp and end.

And just for the heck of it:
Fishing: EB augment. Augments that only work in underwater zones (hey, people fighting in those could happen!). If at all possible to make some type of augment that would give right click effect I'd kill for an effect: Summon bait. But you could put that on an item just as easily I guess.

An important thing in my eyes would be not to make some superduper no-drop augment that requires all trades at 250 skill to make. This does NOTHING good for the economy except drive the prices of skillup supplies up. No traders benefit by selling their finished wares due to such items. Solstice type implementation = good. Gimel type implementation = bad. I rather enjoy being able to sell something people can use to others, more so when it's a completed (or 1 quest combine away from it) item than components. It makes me feel like an actual tradeskiller who has some impact.

Edit: Ngreth's idea is wonderful! Brilliant thinking from da house ogre! I know you guys are working on a way to make bag tokens display the stats for the bag you get by turning the token in. If a similar thing was done with these unfinished augments it would be pretty cool. Make it a no-fail kiln combine to finish the augment to make it no drop and a real augment with stats that can be used. You've just created a nice money sink that won't suffer from resales due to the solvent situation. Same as Solstice earring can't be traded and therefor always at least some market for solstice kits.

[Yarb]

If there were crafted augs that had their own slot type then not all trades would have to make augs to participate. Perhaps the tailors and smiths could be making special armors that have the new slot types, this way they are a vital part of the process and the augs themselves would be implemented in a narrower band of trades.

For brewing, Poison, alchemy and baking perhaps (depending on how much code would be involved) you could allow them to create "Substances" that occupy their own type of slot but are temporary (Either NORENT for easier code or "consumed" like food and drink) They could then make more powerful augs that have a finite life to prevent balance issues and help turn items.

Potters could make ceramic medallions that function like ribbons in cultural tailored robes.

Jewelers... well that’s a cake walk

Fishers... Provide raw materials used in other trades

Fletchers... could create augmentable bows (And arrows?)

Tinkers... Anzacs Augments could be fun... Rebreather aug that goes in a neck or face piece etc...

Yarb

[Nairn Niteraven]

Maybe something along the lines of making the augments slowly degrade over time with the stats gradually lowered; either EQ played time or RL time and adjust the decay rate accordingly.

Obviously, the more powerful the augment, the longer it would take to degrade, the higher the Tradeskill to make it, harder/more expensive ingredients to make it, require several different Tradeskill combinations as you go higher, and you still basically have a consumable that would ensure a market for Tradeskillers.

I haven't thought through all the details or ramifications, just brainstorming

[Tinile]

I haven't read all of the above, but here's my thoughts. Each augment would require all tradeskills to make, including racial/class. The final combine of all the items would be in the kiln, no fail or very low skill.

Pottery - I see the augment requiring a base. This base would be pottered but not fired. Higher level augs would require bases with more customization options (ie slots) and also ability to take on multi-stat options.

Jewelcraft - You would then require gems to determine which stats are involved. These combines would be jewelcrafted. Each gem would house a different stat. For example, opals would be for wisdom, rubies for strength, etc. You would combine your gem(s) with some sort of mixing compound (either bought or a subcombine). If you combine an opal with the compound, you would make a wisdom based augment. For high level augs, the subcombine could be done with multiple gems, ie combine opals for wisdom, rubies for strength, etc with the mixing compound to get augs with str and wis. Depending on how big of options and how many stats can be added, bigger jewel craft kits may be necessary. Higher skills would be multiple gems. For statless augs (effects only), one gem can be designated with no stat, so a combine would still requre a JC combine.

Smithing - You would also require a case. This case can be smithed. Higher level augs would require sturdier cases. Wimpy cases just can't house all that power!

Brewing - To add effects (like FT/Regen/worn effects) to the augment you would brew up a sealant. Higher level brews would have better effects. Low level augs could use a plain sealant, which gives no effect.

Baking - For focus effects, you can bake "discs". Each disc would house a different focus item. Higher level discs would have better foci. Low level discs would be plain, like the sealants.

Tailoring - You would then need some sort of stitching thread to attach it to your armor. These threads would determine the Type of aug. Better threads would be higher level types, ie type 2 or 3, etc. For multi-slot augs, combinations of threads will be done, as adding extra threads in the final combine would make too many items in the kiln.

Fletching - Since fletching is primarily focus with weapons, it would make some sort of wax that determines proc or other weapon types of effects. Higher levels of wax would make better proc/effects. Plain wax would be needed for non-weapons.

Tinkering - To modify a weapon's dmg/dly rate, a tinkered modifier would be needed. Higher levels would make better rates. Plain modifiers would be needed for non-weapons.

Alchemy - To get clicky effects (beneficial) on your augment, you would require an augment potion. These effects could be sow or buffs, etc. Higher level potions would have better effects on them.

PoisonMaking - For detrimental clicky effects, you would have a poison potion. These would have clicky effects of DoTs or DDs, etc. Higher level poisons would be higher level spells/dmg amts.

There would be low level augs, with say a trivial of 50 in each skill. These would produce single low stat augs. The next set would trivial at 100 and these could have higher single stats or maybe even dual stats. Another set could trivial at 150 and maybe add a low level focus/effect. Next set at 200 would be more customization with stats and focus and effects. And then 250 would have more and if you want a > 250, can do an even better set at 335.

All augs would be droppable and sellable in bazaar. If that is not possible, then the pieces will be sellable in bazaar and any player can do the combine, like they do for solstice earring. Actually the pieces would probably be better, as that would allow for more customization by the buyer. This would be a very exciting time for tradeskillers and players alike. I know that none of this may occur, but I'm already excited!

[Eleena Transient]

First, I want to mention that right-click augs are not likely. What if I put one on an item that has a right click already? Which fires when I click it?

Second, I still want to see an alchemy-produced solvent that doesn't dissolve the aug. Even if its a 50% combine with 1500pp in regeants. a forage component, and an existing solvent (to determine slot). I'd glady give up 5k to reuse that 40 hp aug I spent 1150 adv points on, or that ft 3 aug I looted....

[thrashette]

Some stuff.

A thing to remember: Augments are generally sellable ONCE only. After one use, they are destroyed. So these items aren't going to hang around forever if they are useful.

Mid level haste outside the belt slot is a biggie for level 55ish melees. Have you noticed that all but four 28% to 40% haste items are belts?

Useful Type 4 augments for int and wisdom caster epics simply don't exist. Players who don't melee don't need +ac, +damage or procs. So some craftable type 4 hp/mana aug with focus effects would go a long way in the caster realm. Alternatively you could give them a reason to melee, with a pet proc or a cleric type proc.

A good set of augments might be often used self buffs, e.g. Sheild of the Magi for int casters, Liche for necros, and so forth. I'm not sure how those would make the stacking transition from clicky to worn, but any way it is done would make an interesting addition.

I'd like to see something push stats past 305/355, if stat augs can be crafted. It's pretty easy to max a stat at 305 even with the dropped +6 augs.

[Koru]

First, I want to mention that right-click augs are not likely. What if I put one on an item that has a right click already? Which fires when I click it?

The most obvious here would be to have a special dedicated type of augment slot for this type of augment, for the sake of convenience lets call it type11 in this post. You could still stick the generic 'any' type augs into a type11, but by making the effect augs only fit in type11 it would be possible to insure no more than a single click effect could be put on an item. Remember they'd not be retroactive, you wouldn't wake up after a patch and find a type11 augmentation slot on your existing armor and your clickie sow boots are suddenly also dotting you. At least I think that would be highly unlikely since all old armor got only 1 of the most generic augmentation slots when LDoN came out, while the new LDoN armor had more slots. That's the way of the expansions, new items need to have more things going for them than old items.

Now right now we don't even know if the engine *could* handle such a thing even if implemented as above. If it could though, well I'd love to have some of my lower level much-asked-for buffs on a clickie on an item I do actually use. Be honest, how many people really wear Kunark or the lower velious armor in normal use? I don't mean in a "Oh I swap that in when I need the manafree dot" but actual armor you wear most of the time. With appropriate restrictions on levels to use it wouldn't be too overpowering I think.

[splunge]

Bakers could make Fruitcake (which doesnt tecnically count as food and last forever.. like furniture) which would make nice range slots items or even Shields.

Yes, its funny. No im not kidding. =)

[Froni Thunderpaws]

If you remember how the augmentations work in the story they are things that bond into the item so there is no reason that a slice of cake couldn't be absorbed into a sword with any more difficulty than a rock. So items from any of the skills can be incorporated without a huge stretch of the imagination.

If you look at them as adornments you can still come up with real life ways any of the skills could fit - Baking: growing up we would make special cookies that we would hang up with ribbons on trees and around the house (heck I would imagine necros would love some shrunken heads and that would clearly be a baking process); Brewing/Alchemy/Poisons (wet stuff) could be thought of as annointing oils or even the essential oils that people put into phials and use as liquid filled pendants; etc. Smithed medallions and badges, any jewelry, tailored ribbons, tinkered additions, ceramic and glass ornaments, and so on are easy to imagine.

I am all for crafting augments with one or more skills used, but don't restrict them so that only smithed augments can be used on smithing goods. And as Koru pointed out, a bunch of us have been wishing for glassworking to be added into pottery ever since it appeared in the EQRPG guides. (I still wonder if anyone at SOE ever even looked at the huge work up I sent in for glasscraft. Oh well, I had fun putting together at least.) Pottery needs help!!!! (A bunch of us winced with the comment on the SOE boards regarding tinkering being overlooked and so does poison making. Sorry for straying off topic - I do hobby glasswork and pottery in real life and well...)

One thing I would love to see if right click effects are considered is that some of the fun class effects get included. Spells like bind sight, voice graft, minor illusion, etc. could be included without worrying about being overbalancing. (OK so maybe not bind sight, but I would really like to have access to it besides on my little chanter.)

[Maddoc-the-Wayfarer]

Right click augments are not only not likely, but not possible, so...

-- Maddoc

[Ngreth Thergn]

One of the major problems with tradeskills in the "balance" minds is that it can be "easilly" repeated over and over.

Now as far as I Know, augmenting an item makes it no-drop. So doing, this CAN be used as a way to make an augment a one time purchase, becasue once in the person is "stuck" with it, and cannot sell it.

If level limits are posible, these can also be used to keep the augments from being used to "twink"

That said, if we tradeskillers want to be able to make something EQUALLY powerfull as Raid level items, then they also have to be just as rare. This means if the trivial is set so that there is a 50 percent chance of success at 250, then it needs to drop twice as often as the raid drop does.

But then this means that either

A. the "limiting" component needs to drop on a raid (doesn't solve the "I am not in a raiding guild so I never hav a chance problem) or
B. Drop so extremely rarely that people may get frustrated at the rate of drop. if a raid can only be completed once a week, then the limiting component could only drop from "less than raid spawns" twice a week. ( to allow for the 50% fail chance)

Would anyone be happy with that?

Of course with that siad... if an item made continues to be LESS than raid level... it needs to have its controlling item to drop more often!!! (I.E. the problem with planar drops curently for planar tradeskilling... the "raid" drops which result in BETTER items, drop more often than the controling compnents of the tradeskilled armor, which is of lesser value/usefullness than the "riad" drops)

[kiztent]

Right click augments are not only not likely, but not possible, so...

-- Maddoc

I could dig up a list of all the impossible things that are in game now if I had the energy and interest.

[Angahran]

Augments from all trades...

Someone, I think, suggested that not all trades would be able to make augments, so I thought I'd have a go at suggesting some for all of them :P

As the idea of the augments is that they mystically bond with the item, there should be a common 'bonding agent', available from the wayfarers camp that is a component of all augment recipies.

You wouldn't be able to make every augment with every skill, different tradeskills would obviously have different 'strengths' and 'weaknesses'.

Alchemy - stat boosts and effects, e.g. a charm for the face slot that grants Enduring Breath

Baking - Not everything that is baked has to be edible, so glazes and tempers and that sort of thing could be made from animals/plants.

Brewing - Much the same as baking, brew up a temper or a glaze and apply it to an item.

Fishing - Much the same as baking, brew up a temper or a glaze and apply it to an item.

Fletching - Not just bows and arrows, although that would probably be fletchings 'strong' area, but anything involving woodcrafting could be included.
e.g. finely inlaid wooden handles for a sword that enhance its balance, or an intricately carved emblem for a shield.

Jewelcraft - An easy one here, any form of jewelry applied to equipment.

Make Poison - similar to alchemy, probably strong in 'proc' effects for weapons.

Pottery - similar to jewelcraft, clay emblems applied to weapons or armour or clothing, etc

Smithing - strong in the weapons/armour augments, stats, buffs, procs, etc

Spell Research - taking the power of a spell and trapping it in something more durable than a paper scroll.

Tailoring - ornamentation for clothing, or weapons.

Tinkering - just about anything :P those gnomes are tricky individuals.

[Krazick]

Drop so extremely rarely that people may get frustrated at the rate of drop.

I can gaurantee you that even if the item drops EVERY time off Mob x... there will be whiners saying it doesn't drop enough.

One of the major problems with tradeskills in the "balance" minds is that it can be "easilly" repeated over and over.

I can see the situation where an Augument Recipe is setup to make a minor augment... say +5 HP. If that Augment is applicable to ANY Slot, on any Piece of equipment... there is nothing currently that would stop a Tradeskiller from producing 10 of these, and putting one in each of 10 items they wear. Ending up with +50HP. Now, if you say... well 50HP isn't much for a level 65... and you are correct... but for a Level 20? or a Level 1?

Augments, just like other equipment needs to be balanced to not trivialize encounters. To prevent this sort of overpowering... the Augment would have to be either:
1. LORE - Which makes resellers upset... they can't stock more than one at a time
2. Single Slot - Which makes buyers upset... if they already have something in their belt's augment slot... the augment does them no good.
3. LORE when APPLIED to an Augment Slot... Not sure if they can make this work with the current mechanics.

I am not sure what the solution is... I am just highlighting what some of the pitfalls I see.