Determining Tradeskill Difficulty - raw data

[Suani]

Fletching

This data on fletching came from two characters on Test.

S is the maximum adjusted stat, Trivial is the trivial level of the item attempted, Skill is the skill when the attempt is made (not the skill achieved), Made is the number of times the item was successfully made, Failed is the number of times the attempt failed, and SuOnMd is true when the skillup came on a successful combine.

The data begins with a compilation for Kaisha's log. I also added the seven SuOnMd=false skillup data presented by mysharona. I cannot use his other data because his S is too high to distinguish between Y=2 and Y=3. I wanted to use Jarak's data but there are inconsistencies in it at the moment.

[B]S	Triv	Skill	Made	Failed	SuOnMd[/B]
99	122	0	1	15	FALSE
99	122	1	0	4	FALSE
99	122	2	2	10	FALSE
99	122	3	0	7	FALSE
99	122	4	0	10	FALSE
99	122	5	0	15	FALSE
99	122	6	1	8	TRUE
99	122	7	0	1	FALSE
99	122	8	0	8	FALSE
99	122	9	1	17	FALSE
99	122	10	1	11	FALSE
99	122	11	5	25	FALSE
99	122	12	1	5	FALSE
99	122	13	1	24	FALSE
99	122	14	0	2	FALSE
99	122	15	0	4	FALSE
99	122	16	1	1	TRUE
99	122	17	0	3	FALSE
99	122	18	2	19	FALSE
99	122	19	0	5	FALSE
99	122	20	0	17	FALSE
99	122	21	1	13	TRUE
99	122	22	0	1	FALSE
99	122	23	0	12	FALSE
99	122	24	0	8	FALSE
99	122	25	0	7	FALSE
99	122	26	1	8	FALSE
99	122	27	3	23	FALSE
99	122	28	0	4	FALSE
99	122	29	1	30	FALSE
99	122	30	0	3	FALSE
99	122	31	0	11	FALSE
99	122	32	1	8	FALSE
99	122	33	0	6	FALSE
99	122	34	1	1	TRUE
99	122	35	1	31	FALSE
99	122	36	1	6	TRUE
99	122	37	0	7	FALSE
99	122	38	1	10	FALSE
99	122	39	0	4	FALSE
99	122	40	1	5	TRUE
99	122	41	0	7	FALSE
99	122	42	0	11	FALSE
99	122	43	1	7	TRUE
99	122	44	0	5	FALSE
305	??	206	29	2	FALSE
305	??	238	21	7	FALSE
305	??	239	6	4	FALSE
305	??	242	39	67	FALSE
305	??	245	2	1	FALSE
305	??	246	23	32	FALSE
305	??	250	1	5	FALSE
115	31	0	1	3	FALSE
115	31	1	2	2	TRUE
115	31	2	6	4	TRUE
115	31	3	6	1	TRUE
115	31	4	4	6	TRUE
115	31	5	4	7	FALSE
115	31	6	4	2	TRUE
115	31	7	3	3	TRUE
115	31	8	1	12	TRUE
115	31	9	1	0	TRUE
115	31	10	1	1	FALSE
115	31	11	2	3	TRUE
115	31	12	1	1	TRUE
115	31	13	3	3	TRUE
115	31	14	1	0	TRUE
115	31	15	0	1	FALSE
115	31	16	1	0	TRUE
115	31	17	2	4	FALSE
115	31	18	1	0	TRUE
115	31	19	2	2	FALSE
115	31	20	4	0	TRUE
115	31	21	0	1	FALSE
115	31	22	1	1	TRUE
115	31	23	3	1	FALSE
115	31	24	1	2	FALSE
115	31	25	3	3	FALSE
115	31	26	2	2	TRUE
115	31	27	9	1	TRUE
115	31	28	1	4	TRUE
115	31	29	1	0	TRUE
115	31	30	0	1	FALSE
105	31	0	6	5	TRUE
105	31	1	3	6	TRUE
105	31	2	1	0	TRUE
105	31	3	2	4	TRUE
105	31	4	0	1	FALSE
105	31	5	1	1	TRUE
105	31	6	2	0	TRUE
105	31	7	1	2	TRUE
105	31	8	1	0	TRUE
105	31	9	1	0	TRUE
105	31	10	3	4	TRUE
105	31	11	5	3	TRUE
105	31	12	1	1	TRUE
105	31	13	2	0	TRUE
105	31	14	2	5	FALSE
105	31	15	18	7	TRUE
105	31	16	3	2	FALSE
105	31	17	2	1	TRUE
105	31	18	3	4	TRUE
105	31	19	7	5	TRUE
105	31	20	1	0	TRUE
105	31	21	2	0	TRUE
105	31	22	5	6	FALSE
105	31	23	2	0	TRUE
105	31	24	9	6	TRUE
105	31	25	3	0	TRUE
105	31	26	2	0	TRUE
105	31	27	1	0	TRUE
105	31	28	9	7	TRUE
105	31	29	7	4	TRUE
105	31	30	8	2	TRUE

[Suani]

Jewelcraft

This data on Jewelcraft came from two characters on Test.

S is the maximum adjusted stat, Trivial is the trivial level of the item attempted, Skill is the skill when the attempt is made (not the skill achieved), Made is the number of times the item was successfully made, Failed is the number of times the attempt failed, and SuOnMd is true when the skillup came on a successful combine.

The data begins with a compilation from Kaisha's log.

[B]S	Triv	Skill	Made	Failed	SuOnMd[/B]
63	124	0	4	22	FALSE
63	124	1	0	2	FALSE
63	124	2	1	21	FALSE
63	124	3	3	0	FALSE
63	124	4	1	8	FALSE
63	124	5	1	12	FALSE
63	124	6	1	9	FALSE
63	124	7	0	2	FALSE
63	124	8	0	3	FALSE
63	124	9	1	0	TRUE
63	124	10	0	1	FALSE
63	124	11	0	13	FALSE
63	124	12	0	4	FALSE
63	124	13	0	7	FALSE
63	124	14	2	17	FALSE
63	124	15	0	3	FALSE
63	124	16	0	7	FALSE
63	124	17	0	10	FALSE
63	124	18	0	2	FALSE
63	124	19	1	0	TRUE
100	31	0	1	0	TRUE
100	31	1	2	2	TRUE
100	31	2	1	1	TRUE
100	31	3	1	0	TRUE
100	31	4	1	2	TRUE
100	31	5	4	9	FALSE
100	31	6	1	0	TRUE
100	31	7	11	7	TRUE
100	31	8	1	3	FALSE
100	31	9	0	2	FALSE
100	31	10	1	0	TRUE
100	31	11	1	1	TRUE
100	31	12	2	1	FALSE
100	31	13	3	4	FALSE
100	31	14	1	0	TRUE
100	31	15	2	6	FALSE
100	31	16	10	9	TRUE
100	31	17	1	0	TRUE
100	31	18	2	0	TRUE
100	31	19	0	3	FALSE
100	31	20	4	0	TRUE
100	31	21	6	5	FALSE
100	31	22	2	0	TRUE
100	31	23	2	0	TRUE
100	31	24	1	0	TRUE
100	31	25	6	0	TRUE
100	31	26	7	3	FALSE
100	31	27	2	0	TRUE
100	31	28	1	2	FALSE
100	31	29	1	0	TRUE
100	31	30	2	3	FALSE
90	31	0	1	0	TRUE
90	31	1	4	8	TRUE
90	31	2	4	3	TRUE
90	31	3	2	0	TRUE
90	31	4	7	10	TRUE
90	31	5	8	9	FALSE
90	31	6	1	0	TRUE
90	31	7	1	1	TRUE
90	31	8	2	0	TRUE
90	31	9	5	5	TRUE
90	31	10	1	1	TRUE
90	31	11	9	10	TRUE
90	31	12	7	3	TRUE
90	31	13	0	1	FALSE
90	31	14	1	2	TRUE
90	31	15	4	5	TRUE
90	31	16	1	0	TRUE
90	31	17	2	3	TRUE
90	31	18	0	1	FALSE
90	31	19	6	5	FALSE
90	31	20	3	2	TRUE
90	31	21	3	5	TRUE
90	31	22	2	4	FALSE
90	31	23	6	3	TRUE
90	31	24	2	4	FALSE
90	31	25	3	1	TRUE
90	31	26	2	1	TRUE
90	31	27	2	0	TRUE
90	31	28	15	7	TRUE
90	31	29	1	2	TRUE
90	31	30	1	0	TRUE

[Suani]

Pottery

This data on pottery came from two characters on Test.

S is the maximum adjusted stat, Trivial is the trivial level of the item attempted, Skill is the skill when the attempt is made (not the skill achieved), Made is the number of times the item was successfully made, Failed is the number of times the attempt failed, and SuOnMd is true when the skillup came on a successful combine.

[B]S	Trivial	Skill	Made	Failed	SuOnMd[/B]
100	31	0	4	5	FALSE
100	31	1	2	4	TRUE
100	31	2	2	0	TRUE
100	31	3	1	1	FALSE
100	31	4	2	3	TRUE
100	31	5	3	6	TRUE
100	31	6	0	2	FALSE
100	31	7	1	3	FALSE
100	31	8	4	4	TRUE
100	31	9	2	1	TRUE
100	31	10	5	4	TRUE
100	31	11	2	2	TRUE
100	31	12	2	0	TRUE
100	31	13	9	14	FALSE
100	31	14	6	3	FALSE
100	31	15	2	4	FALSE
100	31	16	3	4	TRUE
100	31	17	1	1	TRUE
100	31	18	6	3	TRUE
100	31	19	6	3	TRUE
100	31	20	0	1	FALSE
100	31	21	1	0	TRUE
100	31	22	4	2	TRUE
100	31	23	13	6	TRUE
100	31	24	2	2	TRUE
100	31	25	10	5	TRUE
100	31	26	1	1	TRUE
100	31	27	5	2	TRUE
100	31	28	5	0	TRUE
100	31	29	4	3	FALSE
100	31	30	5	3	TRUE
90	31	0	1	3	FALSE
90	31	1	3	2	TRUE
90	31	2	10	9	TRUE
90	31	3	1	0	TRUE
90	31	4	4	3	TRUE
90	31	5	9	5	TRUE
90	31	6	4	10	FALSE
90	31	7	1	0	TRUE
90	31	8	2	1	TRUE
90	31	9	2	3	TRUE
90	31	10	2	2	FALSE
90	31	11	0	1	FALSE
90	31	12	1	2	TRUE
90	31	13	2	1	FALSE
90	31	14	6	2	FALSE
90	31	15	2	6	FALSE
90	31	16	7	2	TRUE
90	31	17	2	3	FALSE
90	31	18	3	0	TRUE
90	31	19	1	0	TRUE
90	31	20	12	11	TRUE
90	31	21	5	1	TRUE
90	31	22	1	0	TRUE
90	31	23	1	2	TRUE
90	31	24	12	3	TRUE
90	31	25	2	0	TRUE
90	31	26	1	0	TRUE
90	31	27	5	6	TRUE
90	31	28	2	0	TRUE
90	31	29	6	6	FALSE
90	31	30	0	1	FALSE

[Suani]

Smithing

This data on smithing came from two characters on Test.

S is the maximum adjusted stat, Trivial is the trivial level of the item attempted, Skill is the skill when the attempt is made (not the skill achieved), Made is the number of times the item was successfully made, Failed is the number of times the attempt failed, and SuOnMd is true when the skillup came on a successful combine.

The data begins with a compilation from Kaisha's log.

[B]S	Trivial	Skill	Made	Failed	SuOnMd[/B]
129	122	0	0	8	FALSE
129	122	1	0	1	FALSE
129	122	2	0	1	FALSE
129	122	3	0	4	FALSE
129	122	4	0	2	FALSE
129	122	5	0	1	FALSE
129	122	6	0	2	FALSE
129	122	7	0	1	FALSE
129	122	8	1	0	TRUE
129	122	9	0	8	FALSE
129	122	10	0	1	FALSE
129	122	11	1	2	TRUE
129	122	12	0	1	FALSE
129	122	13	0	3	FALSE
129	122	14	0	6	FALSE
129	122	15	0	1	FALSE
129	122	16	0	2	FALSE
129	122	17	0	1	FALSE
129	122	18	0	1	FALSE
129	122	19	0	1	FALSE
129	122	20	0	4	FALSE
129	122	21	0	9	FALSE
129	122	22	1	1	TRUE
129	122	23	0	2	FALSE
129	122	24	0	4	FALSE
129	122	25	0	2	FALSE
129	122	26	0	6	FALSE
129	122	27	0	3	FALSE
129	122	28	0	10	FALSE
129	122	29	0	3	FALSE
129	122	30	0	1	FALSE
129	122	31	0	1	FALSE
129	122	32	0	1	FALSE
129	122	33	0	1	FALSE
129	122	34	1	1	TRUE
129	122	35	0	1	FALSE
129	122	36	0	3	FALSE
129	122	37	0	1	FALSE
129	122	38	1	2	TRUE
129	122	39	0	3	FALSE
129	122	40	0	1	FALSE
129	122	41	0	9	FALSE
129	122	42	1	4	FALSE
129	122	43	0	4	FALSE
129	122	44	0	6	FALSE
129	122	45	0	3	FALSE
129	122	46	0	1	FALSE
129	122	47	0	2	FALSE
129	122	48	0	1	FALSE
129	122	49	0	1	FALSE
129	122	50	0	4	FALSE
129	122	51	0	2	FALSE
129	122	52	1	3	FALSE
129	122	53	0	2	FALSE
129	122	54	0	1	FALSE
115	31	0	0	1	FALSE
115	31	1	2	1	TRUE
115	31	2	1	1	TRUE
115	31	3	2	5	FALSE
115	31	4	1	0	TRUE
115	31	5	1	3	TRUE
115	31	6	3	2	TRUE
115	31	7	0	2	FALSE
115	31	8	2	0	TRUE
115	31	9	1	1	TRUE
115	31	10	1	0	TRUE
115	31	11	1	0	TRUE
115	31	12	1	0	TRUE
115	31	13	1	0	TRUE
115	31	14	4	1	TRUE
115	31	15	1	1	TRUE
115	31	16	1	0	TRUE
115	31	17	2	1	TRUE
115	31	18	2	2	TRUE
115	31	19	1	0	TRUE
115	31	20	2	0	TRUE
115	31	21	1	0	TRUE
115	31	22	1	0	TRUE
115	31	23	2	0	TRUE
115	31	24	1	0	TRUE
115	31	25	1	0	TRUE
115	31	26	3	0	TRUE
115	31	27	1	0	TRUE
115	31	28	3	1	TRUE
115	31	29	1	1	TRUE
115	31	30	1	3	TRUE
105	31	0	0	1	FALSE
105	31	1	1	1	TRUE
105	31	2	1	0	TRUE
105	31	3	2	1	TRUE
105	31	4	0	1	FALSE
105	31	5	0	2	FALSE
105	31	6	1	3	TRUE
105	31	7	1	1	FALSE
105	31	8	2	2	TRUE
105	31	9	0	3	FALSE
105	31	10	0	1	FALSE
105	31	11	1	0	TRUE
105	31	12	0	1	FALSE
105	31	13	1	0	TRUE
105	31	14	3	1	TRUE
105	31	15	1	0	TRUE
105	31	16	4	2	TRUE
105	31	17	1	4	TRUE
105	31	18	0	1	FALSE
105	31	19	1	0	TRUE
105	31	20	0	1	FALSE
105	31	21	1	0	TRUE
105	31	22	4	2	TRUE
105	31	23	2	0	TRUE
105	31	24	4	1	TRUE
105	31	25	2	1	TRUE
105	31	26	1	1	TRUE
105	31	27	1	0	TRUE
105	31	28	1	2	TRUE
105	31	29	2	0	TRUE
105	31	30	2	3	FALSE

[Suani]

Tailoring

This data on tailoring came from two characters on Test.

S is the maximum adjusted stat, Trivial is the trivial level of the item attempted, Skill is the skill when the attempt is made (not the skill achieved), Made is the number of times the item was successfully made, Failed is the number of times the attempt failed, and SuOnMd is true when the skillup came on a successful combine.

[B]S	Trivial	Skill	Made	Failed	SuOnMd[/B]
100	31	0	0	3	FALSE
100	31	1	1	0	TRUE
100	31	2	1	0	TRUE
100	31	3	1	0	TRUE
100	31	4	1	5	FALSE
100	31	5	4	9	FALSE
100	31	6	1	0	TRUE
100	31	7	2	0	TRUE
100	31	8	1	0	TRUE
100	31	9	0	3	FALSE
100	31	10	1	0	TRUE
100	31	11	1	0	TRUE
100	31	12	2	1	FALSE
100	31	13	1	0	TRUE
100	31	14	0	1	FALSE
100	31	15	0	1	FALSE
100	31	16	1	1	TRUE
100	31	17	3	1	TRUE
100	31	18	1	0	TRUE
100	31	19	2	0	TRUE
100	31	20	2	3	TRUE
100	31	21	2	0	TRUE
100	31	22	2	0	TRUE
100	31	23	1	0	TRUE
100	31	24	1	0	TRUE
100	31	25	1	1	TRUE
100	31	26	2	1	TRUE
100	31	27	1	0	TRUE
100	31	28	2	3	FALSE
100	31	29	1	0	TRUE
100	31	30	3	1	TRUE
90	31	0	0	2	FALSE
90	31	1	0	1	FALSE
90	31	2	1	1	TRUE
90	31	3	2	1	TRUE
90	31	4	1	1	TRUE
90	31	5	2	2	FALSE
90	31	6	0	5	FALSE
90	31	7	1	0	TRUE
90	31	8	2	0	TRUE
90	31	9	1	0	TRUE
90	31	10	1	0	TRUE
90	31	11	1	2	FALSE
90	31	12	2	3	FALSE
90	31	13	0	1	FALSE
90	31	14	1	6	FALSE
90	31	15	5	6	TRUE
90	31	16	2	1	TRUE
90	31	17	0	2	FALSE
90	31	18	0	1	FALSE
90	31	19	0	2	FALSE
90	31	20	2	1	FALSE
90	31	21	2	2	TRUE
90	31	22	3	2	TRUE
90	31	23	1	0	TRUE
90	31	24	1	0	TRUE
90	31	25	2	2	TRUE
90	31	26	1	2	FALSE
90	31	27	3	0	TRUE
90	31	28	0	1	FALSE
90	31	29	3	0	TRUE
90	31	30	1	0	TRUE

[Suani]

Alchemy

This data on Alchemy came from a character on Test. At level 25, the skill cap is 5. Since the character started with 1 skill point, there are only 4 skillups.

S is the maximum adjusted stat, Trivial is the trivial level of the item attempted, Skill is the skill when the attempt is made (not the skill achieved), Made is the number of times the item was successfully made, Failed is the number of times the attempt failed, and SuOnMd is true when the skillup came on a successful combine.

[B]S	Trivial	Skill	Made	Failed	SuOnMd[/B]
90	31	1	2	5	TRUE
90	31	2	0	4	FALSE
90	31	3	4	6	FALSE
90	31	4	1	1	FALSE

[Kaysha Soulsinger]

The following messages will give you the data for each tradeskill in turn. I compiled them for you rather than showing the logs to save you work and because it's trickier than it seems. A skillup is shown after a failed combine, but before a successful one. I had to match time stamps.

This is the reason I posted my logs with time stamp

From this data I estimate the following values for the difficulty Y in the skillup formula:

• Baking 3
• Brewing 3
• Fletching 4
• Jewelcraft 3
• Pottery 4
• Smithing 2
• Tailoring 2

I think this is the first more or less conclusive list of what we have to deal with when skilling up.

[KyrosKrane]

I think this is the first more or less conclusive list of what we have to deal with when skilling up.

This conflicts with the one difficulty Tanker did give us -- Tailoring is supposed to be three, according to him.

[Ngreth Thergn]

The God Progressive Quests can get us to skill level 54 for free.

This would be time-consuming if all we want is data to estimate the level of difficulty in the skillup formula. However the first level of the quest gets us to level 31 without the need to finish the quest. We can create a new character, gather data, erase the character and start again.

The next problem is getting a newbie pc to Abysmal Sea. You need an Adventurer's Stone from a level 15 quest. This can be done on the Test server. The /testbuffme grows you instantly to level 25.

I didn't have a character on Test before so the first one had to make a little money to pay for tradeskill containers. Two greater lightstones from wisps in North Karana turned in for Concordances of Research were enough for the two characters I created and for many more if I needed them.

I found out to my chagrin that level 25 is not high enough for the level-limited tradeskills. I could get only 4 skillups in alchemy from my shaman starting from skill 1.

The last problem is to use of the data to estimate difficulty. I came up with a way that I will present later here.

The following messages will give you the data for each tradeskill in turn. I compiled them for you rather than showing the logs to save you work and because it's trickier than it seems. A skillup is shown after a failed combine, but before a successful one. I had to match time stamps.

I also compiled Kaysha's logs where available.

From this data I estimate the following values for the difficulty Y in the skillup formula:

• Baking 3
• Brewing 3
• Fletching 4
• Jewelcraft 3
• Pottery 4
• Smithing 2
• Tailoring 2

Very good work.

What I would like to see further, is more people doing the same thing to get a larger data pool. This larger data pool will help deal with the randomness factor, and get us better results. If there can be 10 sets of data for each tradeskill, it at least goes a long way at reducing the random factor. (of course we really need HUGE sets of like 1000 each to be more certain... but that is expecting too much)

[Suani]

This conflicts with the one difficulty Tanker did give us -- Tailoring is supposed to be three, according to him.

I've been worrying about the possibility that dificulties are different on Test. I will dust off a level 20 I haven't played in years and do the quests on Live.

Apart from the math, skilling tailoring did feel easier.

[Ngreth Thergn]

It is also posible that your data pool is too small and you got hit by the randomness factor that is inherant to this. That randomness factor sqewed the numbers.