skillup formula

[Mark]

After 200

>I think there's one detail missing from the formula:
>we haven't yet explained why chance of skillup is
>better with 200+ skill than it is in the 190s.

The ran(200) >= min(190, skill) could very well be
ran(P) >= min(190, skill)

Where P is based on the maximum Possible score in the skill. That is, until I hit 201 in a trade skill the maximum possible is 200, after 201 the maximum becomes 250 because I have chosen it to be grand master.

I would guess the 190 also changes simply because, as a rule, good programmers hate magic numbers. If there are hard coded numbers there instead of variables then changing the system takes a lot of hunting through source code for those hard coded magic numbers.

[Suani]

I estimated the following values for the difficulty Y in the skillup formula:

Baking 3
Brewing 3
Fletching 4
Jewelcraft 4
Pottery 4
Smithing 2
Tailoring 2

I presented the data I gathered here and I showed the analysis here.

Edit: Changed the estimate for jewelcraft to 4. See this post for details.

[gpofcore]

Yay for Suani..... and yay for smithing being a y=2.

This means I don't really need my str-wis-int over 200 in that I won't see much improvement if I am doing combines that triv near my skill lvl.

If I've got this right higher str-wis-int will help on failures though.

[nimchip]

... brain... hurts... can't understand...
can someone send me a PM with a layman term explanation maybe?

[Yakk]

... brain... hurts... can't understand...
can someone send me a PM with a layman term explanation maybe?

1> More stat (int/wis/etc) means faster skillups.

2> Skillups above 190 skill are all equal in difficulty, other than recipies.

3> Skillups on failures are rarer than on success. Successes cause skillup up to twice as often.

4> Some skills go up faster than others. There are 3 difficulty levels, "easy" "medium" and "hard".

5> The easier the skill and the higher your stat (int/wis), the less it matters if you succeed or fail on a skillup attempt.

[SotakoYatako]

**Falls flat on his face after teleporting in****
**Gets up, dusts self off.**
Dang it been way tooooooo long sence I zone have forgoten how to do that.

Ok I've been out of game for about 6 months now, computer bit the dust and don't got the cash to buy one, at school right now so got the net atm.

Just based upon the need for stats, err data to help figure this forulma out. It could be easyest to make a Orge due to there high starting Str and readly avbility of high str items we can get enough data on smithing in the 0 to 150 ish range that we can probly figure out the DF of it and then once we got the exsact data for that, we can go from there, but man I thought i was good at math but this is makeing my head hurt lol.

[nimchip]

1> More stat (int/wis/etc) means faster skillups.

2> Skillups above 190 skill are all equal in difficulty, other than recipies.

3> Skillups on failures are rarer than on success. Successes cause skillup up to twice as often.

4> Some skills go up faster than others. There are 3 difficulty levels, "easy" "medium" and "hard".

5> The easier the skill and the higher your stat (int/wis), the less it matters if you succeed or fail on a skillup attempt.

AH thank you for clearing this up, i now understand the formula. Thanks a lot

[Mientree]

If I recall, which might hurt the level 1 mule going to a skill of 1, is that on a successful combine with a skill less than 15 - you are guaranteed a skill up. So you could only use the failures to help determine it. Unless you went to a skill of 16 or more - you really can't use the successes to help determine the difficulty factors.



Brain lapse - realized this post references one from almost a month ago... it as referring to one on the bottom of page 1... (didn't realize at the time I was going to be posting on page 3) oooppss...

But I didn't see anyone make reference to this fact (that was given at fan faire) up to this message... Keep up the work - so I don't have to.

[LadyAnnaAnna]

Hmm, I guess all I really want to know is what the odds are for spilling your beer while taking in your fishing line

LadyAnnaAnna

[The Icy One]

Uh.....huh...I think

So, for the non-technically inclined folks that have developed carpal tunnel from tradeskilling for the last 4 years, in plain, non-frosted, simple text the formula is...

Let X= Huh?
Let Y= Suuuuurrrreeee.
Let Z= /nod and pretend you understand.

Give me a hand here.
Blacksmithing on my High Elf Mage max what stat?
I can expect to exhaust the 1000 shrieking/wailing substances I farmed for a month and have to go back for more when?
Does character level have anything at all to do with it like it Alchemy?

[Tineras]

Difficulty seems recipe based to me

Everyone seems to be assuming that the skillup difficulty (V) is tradeskill based and not recipe based...

I'm almost positive that, at least a while ago, poison vials (regular/lined/sealed) had a HUGELY faster skillup rate than casserole dishes for pottery...

My potter wasted lots of time and money doing stacks of casserole dishes on at least 2 different days when he ran out of skins to do poison vails.. Vials were skilling up several times per stack where casserole dishes was in the 1 in 30 or higher range (i.e. around 4 times faster for vials).

If the skillup difficulty is recipe based, what does that do to everyones calculetions?

[Kieroth_whiteleaf]

I would venture to assume (not even coming close to claiming knowledge) that the recipes are strictly skill based, not recipe based. Putting an extra variable into each recipe would add hundreds of additional bits of data and would cause more processing on the server side.

Not saying it can't be true, but it would cause a lot of excess code, and the original programmers seemed a bit to lazy to code something like that.

Also, from everthing I've read (like clarifications) it seems like it's very clear that it's tradeskill based rather than specific item based.

I suppose modifiers are possible, but it's hard to say. Again with the harder coding.

SFG

[Lickity]

Coding this would not be terribly difficult if they coded "hot recipes" i.e all smithing recipes have a difficuly of 2, except 1-5 recipes, which would have a switch in the code to use the new V= value. I can say that I agree this seemed to have been a factor at one time in Tailoring as well, when quivers yielded me a VERY high skillup rate. However, with the strength of the RNG, all of our assumptions and intuition goes out the door without a dev to confirm/deny it.

[Aauminki]

I'm not so sure that the STAT used in the first check necessarily caps at 305/355 respectively. Lately (as described in another thread) I did 270 tailoring combines from 200'ish to 230 using 335 trivial Velious combines, that's 27 skillups not counting the ethereal stuff. I'm a wizard, and have 590 INT unbuffed but fully geared. I didn't keep track, but never once were my bags full of masks - I'd say I failed a good 80-90% of the combines.

Conservatively, at 80% failure rate the chance of a skillup post 190 would be:

@355 INT
((355-15)*10)/(3*(1*20%+2*80%)) = 3400/5.4 ~ 630/1000 chance of passing check one, and 5% of those would be skill-ups, or ~3.2% (31 combines per skillup).

@590 INT
((590-15)*10)/(3*(1*20%+2*80%)) = 5750/5.4 = auto-pass check one, lowering the combines per skillup to 20 average (5% skill-ups on 2nd check).

[Kaysha Soulsinger]

I am having a similar experience, but then with Ceremonial Solstice Robes. I've been making them from 184 onwards and my successrate is (luckily! ) at a horrible low; only once did I see a skillup on a success. I am currently at 204 skill, so that's 20 skillups on those Robes; yet, I only needed like 200-250 combines to get them (keeping in mind that I crossed through the "hell" levels with this rate). My Wisdom is capped at 320 for now, but ignoring that cap, my Wisdom would be at 369 (including KEI) or so.

So something is odd; I had a 7-10% skillup rate on failures, where I had expected 2-3% at best, over 20 skillups.