Reasonable pricing?

[Elyssanda]

I've been working my tradeskills for over a year now. I've seen prices fluctuate. Most of my toons are foragers. I still buy some foraged goods in the bazaar when I see them at reasonable (to me) prices. (Reasonable to me will now be RTM.. Unreasonable to me will be URTM)

RTM plant shoots 25p and under
URTM plant shoots 50p or above . .. there is a trader in our bazaar who continually has hers priced this high. Now, I have tracked how many she has for sale day-to-day.. I've never noticed her available numbers go down.. started around 40 shoots, as of yesterday its 240 for sale.. still at the 50p price. the only way I can see her getting this many is she is buying out anyone in the bazaar with lower prices in hopes of forcing people to buy hers.. but I have yet to see a dip in her available numbers..

yes, I do sell some foraged goods in the bazaar myself. I price them according to what I think I would be willing to pay for them. Do I check bazaar prices, yes.. after I've priced mine, to make sure I'm not above the normal asking price. None of my foraged goods are more than 25p and that's only on the ultra rare types of forages.

Am I the one out of whack here? or is 25p a decent fair rate for those items which are a rare-ultra-rareforage?

[xaanru]

All I know, is I spent over 4 hours in WC to get one stack of plains roots. If I saw them for ANY price 50pp or below, they would be in my inventory as fast as I could run there. I Might even be tempted to pay more, just to use up all those concussion swatches filling a bag in my bank.

On the plant shoots, I got real lucky, and was able to buy a huge quantity of premade ribbons, for less than the component cost, so I am set there

However, I suspect it was someone using ribbons to skill, just trying to get part of their money back quickly.

IF the price is unreasonable for your server, they will come down. If they sell, the price wasn't unreasonable.

[Sylphan]

It's all about demand. If it's higher than supply something has to give. Paying more is one of the best ways to get more supply.

My ranger is a good example. He's about to ding 51 and has his eye on all those 'level 51 required' armors, his epic, a solstice earring, etc... so he needs money. He's hit on clockwork grease, since he has enough pottery skill to put it in jars.

Clockwork grease isn't even rare -- one out of every four or five. If he could only get 25pp each he wouldn't bother to go forage in such a dangerous place, he'd go do something else. But when the jars sell for 200pp each he'll find time to make about a stack a week. If people weren't willing to pay URTM prices, they'd just have to do without.

[Footsore]

The market determines the “fair” price of an item.

There are many definitions of Fair Market Value, however.

One widely accepted definition reads:
“The price, expressed in terms of cash equivalents, at which a property would change hands between a hypothetical willing and able buyer and a hypothetical willing and able seller, acting at arms length in an open and unrestricted market, when neither is under compulsion to buy nor to sell, and when both have reasonable knowledge of the relevant facts.”

Under this definition, the concept of fair market value is a range, with the fair market value falling somewhere within a range of prices. The low end of the range is the lowest price that a willing seller, who is seeking the highest price, would accept and still enter into the transaction. The high end of the range is the maximum price that a willing buyer, who is seeking the lowest price, will pay and still consummate the deal.

Essentially, this is the definition used by sellers when they initially price an item or by buyers when they make an initial offer.

But I like the definition below much better:
“Fair Market Value is the price for property which would be agreed upon between a willing and informed buyer and a willing and informed seller under usual and ordinary circumstances; it shall be the highest price estimated in terms of money which property will bring if exposed for sale on the open market with reasonable time allowed to find a purchaser who is buying with knowledge of all the uses and purposes to which the property is best adapted.”

This definition brings in a few more very important concepts that are missing from the first definition.
1) The use of the term “highest” price more clearly defines the point that both parties are trying to achieve, not a range of prices. (Yes, you could argue that from the buyer’s point of view it should say, “lowest,” but remember that “highest” doesn’t necessarily mean “high.” i.e., when the buyer says, “I will not go any higher,” that is the “highest.”
2) The inclusion of “time” better explains the concept of lack of compulsion expressed in the first definition. Being in a hurry can be considered a “compulsion.”
3) And, “buying with knowledge of all the uses.” Jord meat sells for much more than the stats of the food produced because it has easy combines at a high triv. We’ve all heard someone in the bazaar /ooc criticizing the price of a droppable quest item because the stats don’t justify the price being asked. They don’t have full knowledge of all the uses – the quest.
4) If you are a seller, you might be able to wait someone with “full knowledge of all the uses” under a “compulsion” to come along to get the price you want. If you are a buyer, and you wait long enough, you may find a seller who is in a hurry (or has decided he/she has held the good too long because they were priced too high), or doesn’t have full knowledge of all uses” to get the price you want. These prices would fall outside the “fair market value," by definition.

I often have things for sale that I’m not really interested in selling (other end of the spectrum from “compulsion). I’m sure others must do the same thing. For example, I've had some Chips of Granite on a bazaar mule priced at 7k each for a couple months. One of these days, I hope to come across enough of the other drops to be able to use them (after I’ve gotten my skills up high enough to have a chance of success). Really not much chance of that happening anytime in the near future though. In the meantime, if someone comes along willing to pay that price, I won’t be too upset about selling them.

Note that “fair market value” is used to “estimate” the price of an item that will NOT be sold. Like during divorces or at tax time when figuring the value of something donated to charity. True market value can only be determined by the ultimate sale of a subject property on the open market. If someone buys (or sells) an item at a give price, then that was the item’s true market value at THAT time. If it never changes hands, it is above the fair market value.


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That concludes todays ECON 101 lecture on Fair Market Value at Hafling University of River Vale. One administrative note: We have an opening for the school maskot (must provide own mask). Applications available at the Student Union Office if interested. (Go Rogues!)

If anyone needs to see me after class, you'll have to send me a tell in EQ.

[Koru]

People price their time differently. For instance I'd sell plant shoots cheaper when I was leveling in JP than now that I've outgrown the zone. Also I'm sure some do sell storage. Which is what I call it when you buy something, or store your supplies on the bazaar mule but put a high enough price on it that if someone does buy it the profits will be enough that you won't mind not having the supplies anymore.

Usually if I get something while doing something else and don't need it - that is, forage while hunting or farming something - I will sell at a reasonable price. But if I were foraging purely for profit I wouldn't feel too bad about pricing high since I wouldn't be getting any other compensation for my time. Would I pay 50pp for plant shoots myself though? Heh, no way. I leave that to the elemental farmers with platinum coming out of both ends.

[eniamn]

see i understand that. i charge what i can stand to charge. i normally don't buy stuff. veggies i never pay over 1pp for. however i will trade guildies picnics for veggies though the price is far different. (not really important i try to feed the guild picnics.) i almost never buy anything for mark up though i will include it in trades. get something for half going price and trade it and plat for something i want. there are prices i feel bad charging others so i don't. i know nobody was harmed and an uber with 8 bajillion plat prolly bought it and marked it up 500% and still sold it. oh well.
for things like yew leaves that can take hours to forage a stack i have no problems paying them more than they could have earned during an xp session like ldon. say 4 leaves in an hour and 200pp an ldon is 50pp. numbers vary greatly of course but if i think i will have to spend more time farming plat dropping mobs than they did foraging by a significant amount i wont on principle. they might have been hunting drops or exping and thus have almost free drops for time investment. reason i don't like coughing up over 50pp for polished quartz "forages". :/ surely i could have seen a polished gem on the ground.

[andyhre]

/cheer footsore

[kiztent]

A horse's corpse rises to serve Drivel.

(honest, that's really the name of a necro in my guild)

[eepjr24]

Originally posted by eniamn
for things like yew leaves that can take hours to forage a stack i have no problems paying them more than they could have earned during an xp session like ldon. say 4 leaves in an hour and 200pp an ldon is 50pp.

Obviously, some peoples tolerance for earning or farming is lower than others. In addition, foraging skill affects these numbers. My lowly 22 ranger went to WL to forage Yew Leaves. He spent about 8 hours there over several sessions (with me either reading a book, or coming back to mash the keys whenever I passed the PC). In that time he got 7 Yew leaves, and got the last 8 points to max his foraging, using his foraging machete. I sold them for 250p each in about 2 days on my trader. So I netted 1750p for 8 hours. A fair trade for him, since this will buy him some nice gear for his level, even though it took quite a bit of time to do.

Tyquan Leap
25 Ranger, Tunare Server

[Koru]

Another problem for those of us who don't want to overcharge is the professional traders who buy low and sell high. I've often wanted to charge less for something to well, give the tradeskillers I sell to a bit of a discount but can't, it'll simply get snatched up and resold for twice the price.

[Tudamorf]

Re: Reasonable pricing?

Originally posted by Elyssanda
yes, I do sell some foraged goods in the bazaar myself. I price them according to what I think I would be willing to pay for them.

Odd, are you trying to sell them to yourself? The key is not what you would pay but what your buyer would pay. For example, knowing I can make 10-20K per hour elsewhere, and knowing ultra-rare forages are about 5-10 per hour, I wouldn't even bat an eyelash at a price of 200 each. It's just not worth my time.

On the flip side, if your target market is players lower level than you, they might find your current prices unreasonable. For them, small differences in prices which may seem trivial to you can make or break a transaction.

Know your target market and price accordingly. Obviously, the rich level 65s are the best target.

[Auricula]

For example, knowing I can make 10-20K per hour elsewhere,

/em boggle

[Tudamorf]

Originally posted by Auricula
/em boggle

LDoN is a major cash cow -- 3-4 hours of adventures and I usually get 1 or 2 items that sell pretty quickly for 30-70K, depending on the item. At the same time, I have fun, get some of the best XP in the game, and get points for augs. LDoN has killed off any incentive for me to trade skill for profit.

[Timper Tantrum]

Reasonable pricing?

ROFL oh don't get me started....

[Elyssanda]

Re: Re: Reasonable pricing?

Originally posted by Tudamorf
Odd, are you trying to sell them to yourself? The key is not what you would pay but what your buyer would pay.
On the flip side, if your target market is players lower level than you, they might find your current prices unreasonable.

I started baking when I was under level 10. A year ago. I remember what it was like to try to get supplies. Yes, my prices are probably a little high for the true low level newbie, but they are in line (normally) with what a mid 20's to 30s toon would probablky be willing to spend. I lucked out beyond belief in my baking path. I had joined a guild that had dabblers of tradeskills (shawl people) but no dedicated tradeskillers. They all saved meats and baking things for me. at one point I literrally had 40+ stacks of meats.