Hypothetical Crafting Masteries Question.

[eniamn]

as long as eq is class based i don't mind not getting foraging on my wizard. on the other hand i don't see a convincing reason to give enchanters a skill like jc mastery and no other class anything similar when considering class balance.

[Angahran]

Sorry Lilosh, must have missed it last time around.

It just always seemed very odd, that these smart little gnomes could come up with these wonderful contraptions, but if they ever annoyed the foragers they wouldn't be able to make anything.

Thats not really all that smart.

Ang.

[Lothay]

Originally posted by Angahran
Sorry Lilosh, must have missed it last time around.

It just always seemed very odd, that these smart little gnomes could come up with these wonderful contraptions, but if they ever annoyed the foragers they wouldn't be able to make anything.

Thats not really all that smart.

Ang.

Well, we are talking about Gnomes here.

[Dolaorn]

Tradeskill AA

I ama 65 Enchanter and I think the JCM aa is cool, and fair. Like stated before JC is geared toward Enchanters, we are the only class that can make the stat jewelry afterall, aside from high end pop.And even with this AA the failure rate on high end pop items like Earth rings is atrocious, like 50pct, maybe i have tired 6 times, and gotten 1 success, and i have 250 JC and JCM3, but i have never faile don a Valorium Ring of Galantry either, so it depends on perspective. On the other AA's I'm not sure I will leave that to you all, since you are more qualified to answer :-) I'm just responding with what I know

[Sanna]

a response to that idea is: If something is said to be geared /towards/ a certain race/class/deity or combination thereof, it is percieved as being geared /away/ from charactors who are not of that r/c/d. That's what starts irking people. So "of course YOU don't have a problem with it, you're an enchanter, you have it cushy." Not that that is my opinion, just that that is what the idea is. you know? ^_^

-- Sanna

[Dolaorn]

re:

Aye in JC due to me beinga encahnter I'm biased so can't make a unbiased opinion, and in JC yes i have it kinda easy, but i pay for it in the other tradeskills, smithing and tailoring is a bitz, that is for everyone i know, but tailoring especially, i can't quad, i did ribbons as much a i can so unless i want to spend hours and days farming when i could be raiding, i have ot buy the items, and im kos to othmirs so i can't even do Enchanted Velium bits without help, cuz i used othmir fur as a skill up route

[Koru]

It's also that no other classes get a similar advantage in a trade. I mean ok, some classes get forage which is a help. But such a drastic upgrade to your success rate - no other class gets that advantage in any trade. A 250 skill gnomish mage baker and 250 skill halfling warrior bakers are going to have the same success rates, the same cost and so on. Doesn't matter if halflings are renowned for their pies and gnomes are known to serve motor oil as dressing, they're still on an even footing when it comes to the actual combine.

Add to that that to make many items you need an enchanter to enchant items and it's not exactly making the hardcore trader go 'yay enchanters, it's your birthday' but instead 'oh great, another class I need to level up for my trades'. Err, well for a hardcore trader I guess enchanter would be the first class you'd start raising after your main due to how many trades use enchanted items but you get my drift.

Is it possible for a non-chanter to make money off of JC? Yes. But the JCM3 chanter will always have lower failure rate, so there's never going to be even the illusion of an even playing ground on that particular market.

[Dolaorn]

re:

Aye im not argueing with that fact, the AA does give a enchanter with those aa a advantage over other classes in JC. But since JC has been a enchanter's forte all along, even though other classes can do the Tradeskill, aside from PoP jewelry, which still needs a enchanter or similar type class, Enchanters have always made more profit from the fact we can enchant the metals used in it. Does this justify the AA and the uneveness to other classes? no of course not as you stated, Enchanters with JCM3 have a edge, and on normal combines it is even noticeable, but if their like me, in a Time guild, and trying ot do elemental combines, there is no real difference, a non enchanter has a less chance of making the item, but even with the AA high level PoP combines are so hard like i said, enchanters have maybe a 50/50 chance, that is 30+kpp on each attempt gone, enchanter or not. I do feel they should make similar AA for other classes for tradeskills, but just like JC is for ench, each class/char can only specialize in one, and encahnters won't get the ability since we specialize in JC already, that is what i think should happen to make it fair, but even from my point of view, i don't see it happening.

[Koru]

I agree that it does make sense. And being a compulsive tradeskiller myself I did the only logical thing when I realized that A. I needed enchanters for so many trades, and B. looked at the success rates of certain JC combines with JC mastery - made an enchanter. The fact that I also get KEI, haste, CC and slow to complement my other account is gravy. So for me, and I suspect for quite a few like me, the enchanter advantage becomes irrelevant since once any class gets very good advantages over others in tradeskills I'll make up a char of said class so I can utilize it.

To someone less dedicated to tradeskills I could see it not being worth it, but I'm not in it for Aid Gimel, I'm in it for the long haul. And in the long haul JC3 + all elemental imbues + ore imbues + probably any future imbues and enhancements - well, lets face it, the enchanter is the tradeskill class of EQ. It's the only class that gets most of what's needed to make the most items. All they need as a class is forage and they'd be set. Sorry, we'd be set. No, wait, I run a druid on other account, they'd be set. Gets confusing after a while. At least we're not talking about ourselves in the plural anymore.

[Fenril Lonewolf]

Re: Tradeskill AA

Originally posted by Dolaorn
I ama 65 Enchanter and I think the JCM aa is cool, and fair. Like stated before JC is geared toward Enchanters, we are the only class that can make the stat jewelry afterall

Are you kidding ???

JC is NOT geared toward Enchanters, you aren't the only class that can make the stat jewelry, anyone can.

The only advandage you had and still have is that only you can enchant the metal or summon a vial of mana, period.

As for the JCM, it's a slap on the face on everyone who worked his JC and isn't an enchanter.

I'm sure that if Alchemy mastery was only for Barbarian because the others "don't desserve it" and I come here to say that's good
and fair, hell... I'll be crushed in no time.

Same with any generic, let me repeat, GENERIC Tradeskill.

And I hope that, if any other Tradeskill Mastery AA come live one day, it won't be handled like JC.
I don't see why I should be better in one TS just because I have the good race/class.

[Dolaorn]

re:

true, anyone can make stat jewelry, AFTER a encahnter enchants the metal for you or makes the vial. point is the Ench is the ONLY class that can make stat jewelry without relying on someone else. and read my other posts before you have a fit. :-)
But like i stated before, and for the reason i just stated now, JC has been and is geared toward Enchanters, do i like the aa? yes, is it fair? no but there isn't much we can do except /feedback and see fi Soe listens

[Aeght]

Same with any generic, let me repeat, GENERIC Tradeskill.

And I hope that, if any other Tradeskill Mastery AA come live one day, it won't be handled like JC.
I don't see why I should be better in one TS just because I have the good race/class.

The problem with your arguement is that you limit it to 'generic' tradeskills.

By the same logic you are using, any class should be able to do alchemy, tinkering, and/or poisonmaking.

For that matter, it is not a large extension to say that every class should be able to wield weapons equally well. In fact weapon skill is probably the better analogy...

After all, all classes can use weapons to some degree... why shouldn't they all be able to use them well?

The answer is that there is class differentiation, and the startard explaination is that different classes simply specialize in different things...

[Quesci]

And Lilosh thought it would be foraging that got people heated

[Lothay]

I can see where this is headed.

Do not go there.

Stop, take a deep breath, and let it out slowly before posting.