New Tradeskill UI on Test

[Jobrill]

Sure, the Celestial Essence market will drop off...

However, I would imagine the Leather Padding market will be strong as ever, as people will still rather snap them up in the bazaar rather than farm the silks and pelts themselves. Silk Swatches and Silk Threads will probably still be decent sellers as well.

When situations change, you adapt. Personally, I think Celestial Essences were a horrible thing to begin with, and they should have skipped the Solvent step and just sold em as Essences to begin with.

[Kaysha Soulsinger]

I've read the argument that we'll be seeing tons of new GMs ... and wonder about the validity of that argument.

Sure, I won't deny the fact that there are people who have been deterred from doing Tradeskills, purely by the tedium of *click* *click* *click*, who now can reduce that tedium through the new UI. That being said, this group isn't big at all. There are tons of people who still abhor doing Tradeskills, are too lazy doing Tradeskills, or who are just doing Tradeskills to get the 8th Shawl. These people will NOT be acting like the core Tradeskill folks, who are doing it because they like TSing.

Regardless of the UI, TSing is something that only appeals to a certain group of people. The rest can't be interested in it at all. And from the group that is appealed by Tradeskills, a fair number is already close to reaching their goals in TSing. The number of people being held off out of fear of clicking so often is relatively small.

I welcome this new UI. It will make it less of a strain on my wrists to click through the combines. Especially the small, fast, repetetive motions while moving components around in the current method do worry me ...

[Xira]

Funny, where some of u seem concerned about revealing all recipies, I am concerned about having a HUGE recipy book to search of which I will only use very little.

I would prefer a near empty book, and therefore recipies added when I either try or succeed, not much difference in that, imo.

Full books may(will) become available on the net, I will not use them.

[Malthorn]

Repeat after me - CHANGE IS GOOD.

I think several tradeskills will see a large increase in GM's, but how many people are going to farm AA's just to get into the 1750 club.

So when does it go live?

[Tudamorf]

Re: Some analysis on the UI

Originally posted by Aethia
Again, given the current +50 over trivial means that a person must manual combine fish + bat wing until 85. Thus another deterrant against tradeskilling.

Honestly, trade skills don't even begin until ~180, when the 20-25 combines per skill point rule starts to set in, so leave that out of your analysis. Getting to 180 is ridiculously easy for the vendorable skills; if someone doesn't have the patience for that then they won't even have the patience for the new dumbed-down UI system, and they probably won't stay in trade skills anyway.

Originally posted by Cayleu Starshine
At this point though, I dont care anymore, we already have too many tradeskill GM's now, the economy has already been ruined. An extra massive flood of new trade GM's will no longer make a difference.

I agree the ship is sinking (thanks AG!), but just saying screw it and jumping overboard isn't the only option here. It is possible to repair the trade skill situation -- or just about any imbalance -- over time. That's why you should continue to oppose changes like this which harm trade skills.

[Troy]

Xira, I believe you just have to put the recipes from the book in your favorites and not look at them again unless there is something you find yoursefl needing.

That is what it looked like to me when I logged on Test but I did not have much time to mess around with it.

[CillianFV]

So when does it go live?

Next Scheduled Update
Greetings all,

February 10th will be the date for our next update. Some of the items currently on test that may go live with this update are:

The long awaited return of the casino in Shadowhaven

Introduction of the new tradeskill UI

Log on to the Test server and see what other changes may be coming.

Brenlo the Tester

Looks like there is a good chance we will get it the same time as GoD goes live.

[Tinile]

I agree the ship is sinking (thanks AG!), but just saying screw it and jumping overboard isn't the only option here. It is possible to repair the trade skill situation -- or just about any imbalance -- over time. That's why you should continue to oppose changes like this which harm trade skills

Seriously... this will NOT ruin tradeskills. I think you are being too defeatist, too soon. The only group of people that will lose their place in this fake world, are the subcombine sellers of CEs, heady kiolas, and other annoying vendor subs. Yes, there may be a few people that might try some tradeskills for the first time with this new UI, but I bet most of them will drop it, just as fast. No matter how easy they make skilling up, most players are too lazy to do it. Most EQers DO NOT CARE about tradeskills. They only want EXP/AA.

This system has been on test for mere hours and you've already decided it was armageddon. Why not try it for a bit first? All the naysaying and negativity... really needs to go. Ideas and thoughts are great, but you are trying to kill something before it's even been born. Give it a try. Use /feedback.

Change is a good thing. An easier way to click tradeskills is a good thing. This is something they are doing for us. (Yes, they want more skillers to remove plat from the game as well, but they are essentially doing it for us). If you don't like it, you can stop skilling or playing EQ, that's your right, but I don't think you should come here spewing negativity.

[Cayleu Starshine]

If you don't like it, you can stop skilling or playing EQ, that's your right, but I don't think you should come here spewing negativity.

I understand that seeing someone post an opinion that differs from your own can be upsetting to some, but rather than addressing honest criticism with "buzz off", maybe you could try explaining why you think they are wrong?

Personally, I dont believe this is armageddon, because theres really nothing left to kill anymore. Whether our worst suspicions are confirmed and we get a million new GM's, or its all overblown and we get very few new GM's, its already too late. The tradeskill market is already dead.

[fenedari]

/Cheers Tinile

When I first came to these wonderful boards, I was almost turned off of the idea of tradeskilling.
Almost every thread had a complaint or suggestion on how the tradeskills should be quicker, easier, smoother, etc.
But it was the positive attitudes and the show of comaraderie that encouraged me.
I too started tradeskills during the era of single bag open.
When you could open more then one bag, the threads raged across "this is great, finally" to "gah, now everyone will want to do it."
When you could control click, the same thing happened. A large number said great and a small number cried foul.
When progressions were tweaked (not perfect, but definantly better) the crowds screamed again, yay said some and boo said others citing it was too easy for those that came after.

Now I don't claim to know the answer. I have looked back at all the posts and cringed at some (even my own).
I do find a new trend though in some of the posts. That is the ones that are crying foul and stating how this will destroy the purity of those that slave over trade skills and in the next breath admit that they don't even farm their own supplies, choosing instead to utilize the bazaar. I guess I find that ironic.

Maybe I read to much into posts sometimes. I just don't understand some of the ways people define what a "true" tradeskiller is. Combining all the post and objections, it would seem that a "true" tradeskiller is one that farms their own items, does not have more then one bag open at a time and does not use control click. This "true" tradeskiller should also have some dice on their desk so that when they click combine, they see if they need to destroy everything in a random trade container they are using as a backpack (remember accidently hitting combine instead of close and watching all those stacks of HQ bear pelts go poof?). Oh, and despite their posts here, the "true" tradeskiller has never been to a recipe site but instead has searched the world looking for the books and clues to combines, excepting of course those that they learned from others.

I myself have never done tradeskills for profit. I have given away many many more items then I have ever sold. I have destroyed hunderds of combines after they were made. I started it so that my wife and I could have tatered armor with our newbie characters and it grew into an alternate pasttime for me. It is something to do when I don't feel like getting exp or can't find a group I want to join. It is something I do while turning down major exp groups. It is something I do for me.

I think I am done posting in this thread until the next version of the UI comes out. I believe it will be interesting to see which way attitudes change.

Until then, be safe and have fun

[nykor]

To those of you who think this won't change things, you are very wrong. Lowering the difficulty of entry will increase the number of people who enter. That is a very simple reality.

Prices of crafted items are already extremely skewed. I ran through the list of things selling in the bazaar, and was awed at how many "finished" items are selling for less than the items to put them together would cost to purchase at that very moment. There is already a surplus in many areas of sellable trade skill loot.

This leads to the fundamental point of doing a trade skill in the first place. Seriously take a moment and ask yourself...why trade skill in the first place?

There are really only a few answers to that question.
1. Elitist. Simply like to be in a select crowd and be set apart from others. Sense of accomplishment to some.

2. Money. There are niches where there is considerable cash to be made. This explains the undervalued items in the bazaar. They are stepping stones to build a given skill to the point of stepping into a given niche.

3. Quests. Shawl, Aid, and a few others where you need a skill of some sort. Very rarely trade skill items are made for personal use as well.

4. ? help me out... have I missed something?

When you look at what the UI does to this list, it isn't positive.

1. If lots of people have the exact same thing as you, your sense of being unique, is gone.

2. If there are 100 other people who can make the exact same item as you, competition goes up considerably. With a boom in the ability to supply, not only will the demand go down, the value will plumet as well. Trade skills will no longer be a profitable thing anywhere.

3. Having to acquire a given skill WAS the barrier to entry for things like the shawl. It was an extremely good item for it's time because it came at a fairly significant cost. Hoping for other trade skill quests in the future though becomes moot with this though. If it is significantly easier to gain a given skill, the liklihood of other worthwhile trade skill quests diminishes. The thought of this alone is enough to make me sad.


Take these two basic Econ examples:

Person A works like a dog, and saves up a million dollars. Person B wins the lottery and gets a million dollars. The fact that there are only two people with a million dollars means their money really is worth a million dollars.

Person A works like a dog and saves up a million dollars. Everyone else in the US gets a million dollars. At this point everyone has the same amount of money, but it is no longer really worth a million. Inflation would skyrocket. The cost of basic goods would rise exponentially as the supply would quickly and initially be exhausted. When the supply side catches up, it will outpace demand by such a factor that prices will have to plummet.

Long story short. This isn't the end, this won't ruin EQ. However this WILL destroy tradeskills as we know them, and I am convinced it will not be for the better.

[bana-zir]

I am a GM Tailor on two accounts and GM Smith. I have several other "trivial" GM mules. I have GM's for AG quest on 1 character.

1) I doubt this UI will lessen CE sales. People buy things in the baz because it is available. People buy items in the baz before they look up how to make them or where to buy them. People buy so they don't have to run to X zone or buy A, B, C parts. People buy them so they don't have to carry a M&P.

2) This is good for EQ and good for tradeskills.

3) I doubt this will increase the number of GM's. I see it only helping those that would do it regardless.

4) I like that you can try a combine and it can be added to the list for you to use when your skill is way below (200 points) the trivial.

5) All of the difficulty in tradeskills are the parts. Period. I used to collect massive quantities of parts from vendor mining. I used to hand out "tailoring kits" to people in my guild with enough of the subcombines and silks to reach 158 in tailoring. These people would not have done the tradeskill or shawl if I didn't gather the parts for them. It wasn't about money, they could have bought the parts, but they didn't.

6) GM Smithing via Misty Sickles is a PITA even with this UI. It would also cost approximately 600k if you buy the items at cost. More if you buy imbued emeralds or subcombines. You got 1 or 2 million to use sickles? No? Don't say it can be store bought to 200 then.

7) I doubt this will largely increase the costs of supplies. If it does, it isn't like those costs are not already to the point of making all potentially profitable combines unprofitable. I blame the lack of a baz "buy" option (you can only sell) combined with JC Mastery 3 which helped to train players (that do not tradeskill) that tradeskill parts should cost about 50 percent or more of the cost of the final product. How can that be sustainable where most combines are 25 percent success? It can not be sustained, but many people like to gamble on a 1st try "success."

In short, I read every single comment here from page 1 to 6. I don't agree with any of the comments in opposition to *introducing* this UI. I just don't see the validity of those points. I have extensive knowledge of the tradeskill world in EQ and how the baz interacts.

I see this interface as near perfect as is. I would like to see:

1) More recipes including many quest recipes that are made often (POTC earring items.)

2) An option to toggle the UI on and off with a button on the box that will open up the new UI like the "experiment" button opens up the old UI.

[Xira]

Can anyone check what the recipy for celestial essence and/or clumb of dough looks like ?

Is it 1 recipy or several ? How do I tell them apart ?

Does it eat my rune of zephyr be default ? (*ouch!)

[Milenax]

I tried it, and I like it! A lot!

Didn't find the recipe I wanted at search though... but it came up if I choosed (all).

[Teaamillie]

Aethia, I absolutely LOVED your post. Excellent.

There is a built in delay on the auto combine button. Manually I can click 6 times in 2 seconds. With the auto combine, it took 3 seconds for the button to refresh, and the button cannot be refreshed if you have something on your cursor. It took me 280 fishing grubs to reach 122.

I think that is key on how to slow down macroers. Will it stop them? Sure, temporarily. If they are hell bent on beating the system rest assured they will find a way. Even with the experiment key, they can still macro the old fashioned way but it appears to me Sony tried to keep macroers from using this new UI to do their deeds.