New Tradeskill UI on Test

[Mumboh]

Main problem is lack of materials

One thing that hasn't been discussed is what an increase in tradeskilling will do to the price of raw materials. More tradeskillers means more demand for raw materials (mainly for the "skillup" combines). It also may mean less supply if some of the people who are supplying raw materials turn to consuming them to learn new tradeskills.

Increased Demand + Decreased Supply ==> Price Increases

Also, this is not meant as a criticism, but it did make me smile to read: "around 80k so the average person could afford them." Even at the height of the PoTC craze when I was selling Steins and Idols as fast as I could make them, I rarely had that much cash. Not 1-in-10 of the people I know in the game could afford 80k, and almost all of the ones who could afford 80k could afford 125k.

You mostly receive pride from Grandmastering skills because it makes you stand out

Not me. Getting to 250 was nearly meaningless for me. Once I had achieved effective 250+ with a gearlock, the rest of it was next to nothing, and I stopped actively skilling up. In fact, to this day the biggest thrill and source of pride I have ever had in tradeskill was in the fall of 2000 when I put my first HQ Bear Skin in my sewing kit, clicked combined, and got a backpack. Since then, tradeskills has done nothing but get easier.

I think part of the debate on this thread is because different folks TS for different reasons. Some get a kick out of the magic of 250. Some out of the feeling of accomplishment at making stuff. I mainly do it to add structure to my game.

(Edited to correct year)

[Cayleu Starshine]

Mumboh, that will be temporary. The end items will not be affected at all, the prices for materials will spike a bit untill everyone and their dog is a GM. Then end-item prices will fall through the freaking basement as disgusted tradeskillers sell under cost for items they thought they would be making money on.

However, I dont care anymore, because prices for non-ele stuff are already at break-even anyway.

[Cayleu Starshine]

Not me. Getting to 250 was nearly meaningless for me

Fine, good for you. You wont be disappointed when no one thinks you are special in the slightest for your efforts.

This arguement is not aimed at you, its aimed at those silly deluded souls on here who try to say that this change wont diminish their sence of accomplishment.

[Daikoku Ashikaga]

The anti skill up crowd seems to be stuck on "I want to be 31337" I am the best Smith for my race, on my server 1st or second to be at capped skill, what accomplishment is this to me, nada, I just want to make things. I am in the third guild on our server to go PoT, what accomplishment is this to me? None, that I did it with out selling out to the local uber guild means something, but not the flag itself, what it means is that I can get equipemnt to keep me in line with my friends (Meaning get 7khp unbuffed)

the accomplishment is in the making not the skilling, and I prefer to do it without sore wrists.

Dai

In other words a good bulk of this community (Minority/majority? /shrug) would not be in favor of enforcing more elitism in the game.

[Cayleu Starshine]

You then are also an odd duck. I am assuming by "making things", you have absolutely no intention of trying to sell it. After the change, why in the world would you want to bother making anything? After you get your earring, then the purpose of tradeskills has ended for you.

If supply of tradeskilled items is never ever scarce, and you can purchase items at break-even prices, why waste all the money and time to make stuff that you could simply purchase for so much less, and then go exp?

You may have fun "making stuff", but how fun is that going to be when you have no more room in your bank because you cant even give it away? Are you going to sit in a corner as a GM, making lots of neat things, and then destroy it, over and over again, and call that fun?

[andyhre]

In all of the argument, there is on facet I have missed on HOW it works. Will it be possible to make hotkeys? Can I have a "Silk Thread" hot button that combines two Spiderling Silks?

Or will I still have to position a mouse and click it? Admittedly many fewer times than before, but keystroke>>mouse click, so i was just curious.

[Maevenniia]

Ok, let's calm it down a little, please.

[Daikoku Ashikaga]

I am about 50/50 given away grais about as much as I have made, If I just run some, usually just find someone that wants and make it.

Why bother, because there are still people that I can make their day withwhat took me a few hours to farm, that more value then the PP to be made, heck I can XP and sell stuff and make more PP.

I was after smithing long before luchlin, forget pop, I likely will still be buying kaladims even if they are trivial to me, will prolly make my own heros.


I guuess I am most odd that I am not a one trick pony, I am known as a raider,well to all but the hardcore, whom believe I am a slack, I am (pre AG) a knowaglble source on tradeskills, but I not see the point in 1750, I like duoing and LDoN or a day grinding in the planes, I have alts one over 50, but not 56+.

I invest, and have invested the time and effort so I really do not have to do much I do not want to, even raid, as I would be survivable for the next year if I stopped, what with my current gear, and LdoN stuff.

I have 419 days played, if I stuck to one thing Dai would have been retired long ago.

Dai

[Rewde]

Originally posted by Ainyan Dar`Mori
As for the new interface, I like it. I'd like to see an option to autoinventory whatever is on your cursor. I pray you impliment the making of stacks. I'll love you forever if you do.

They have one. YOU just have to make a hotkey for it.

/autoinventory

so, it would be click combine, push keypad number. Not too hard to do.

As for the New UI, I can't wait for it to come out. I just hope they take ALL of the advice that is being dished out, weigh the options they have, and then implement it in the best possible way they can.

GRATS to SoE for making TS more fun and not so tedious (with the exception of farming some components)

[Marteeny]

I guess the main reason I do not like the change is that since I started tradeskilling about 2 years ago, my main goal has been to join the 1750 club (well 1450, then tanaan mastery raised it). I am currently about to GM my second skill, tailoring. By the time I get enough AA's to move onto the next skill, this interface will be out.

1750 will no longer be a special club. There will be so many, that I will just feel like another LLegolaaas who just hit 65. It is taking away the main thing that has kept me playing this game.

[Aethia]

Some analysis on the UI

well I went onto Test and did some testing.

I took my lvl 26 necro to Qeynos and gathered some snake eggs. I bought a mixing bowl. I searched the list for 'clump of dough'. Currently, all versions of 'clump of dough' are listed without any unique identifier. In addition, the icons are not consistently shown (i.e. sometimes the egg is in the upper right, other times in the lower left). This makes it difficult for visually looking at the recipe to see if you have the correct egg icon.

I attempted 3 clumps of dough. I got 2 skillups and no successes. But so far, I was intrigued.

So, I went to the old stand by of brewing and Fetid Essence.

I purchased 100 flasks of water, 100 fishing grubs. I went to the brew barrel and searched for Fetid Essence. Nothing shown in the list. Highest trivial was 48.

So, I click the 'Experiment' button (feedback that a different name should be used). Well..... after several attempts, I succeeded and received a message indicating that I know knew how to make Fetid Essence. So I checked the UI. Nothing. I checked my favorites. Nothing. Either Fetid Essence is not really an AutoLearn, or it is some how based on my current trivial, which at this point was 4.

I manually clicked 5 -6 times (depending on if there was a success that I had to place in inventory). I did this approximately 150 times, until I reached a trivial of 73, at which time the recipe for Fetid Essence could now be seen.

There is a built in delay on the auto combine button. Manually I can click 6 times in 2 seconds. With the auto combine, it took 3 seconds for the button to refresh, and the button cannot be refreshed if you have something on your cursor. It took me 280 fishing grubs to reach 122.

Having looked at this briefly, I pulled out my hard copy recipe books to analyze the typical skill up paths in each tradeskill route.

Brewing: Fetid Essence (122), Shar Vahl Essence (187) OR Skull Ale (151), JumJum Beer (168), Faydwer Shakers (188)

In brewing, you are unable to utilize the auto combine (following the typical skillup path) until 73. If you are money conscience, you will need to manual combine until the mid 130s (payala fruit). So, the huge gap in getting started (using the typical skillup route) is prevented, thus subduing the initial incentive to auto combine.

Baking: Fish Rolls (135), Patty Melts (191)

Again, given the current +50 over trivial means that a person must manual combine fish + bat wing until 85. Thus another deterrant against tradeskilling.

Jewelcraft: Ok most people follow Gumkak's site and given that the steps between trivials are usually 2 -3, and at most 20, the UI will be an ideal way of raising the skill.

Tailoring: Several ways of raising the skill, but unless you are starting with woven mandrake, the UI will be useful from the initial start. I do know several people who have used woven mandrake to raise tailoring from level 1. However, this is an extremely rare case and often one where the individual has so much plat that they just want to get tailoring up and done with (usually in relation to the shawl quest or Aid Grimel). For the rest of the majority, the UI will ease the pain of clicking. The only exception would be those who 1) cannot afford to do ribbons up to 187 and/or 2) those for whom LOY robes are not a possibility. There, manual clicking must be done.

Smithing: Having utilized Zeralenn's Economical Smith, I cannot find an area where the gap between current skill and trivial is > 50. With the introduction of enchanted velium bits and LDON armor, the UI will be utilized.

Pottery: If you start with medium bowls, you are faced with the same issue as baking and brewing - you are forced to manual click for ~ 80 levels. If you go off the medium jar -> small bowl, you can utilize the UI for the intial with only a minimal amount of manual interface.

Fletching: making arrows (and this is from memory) I cannot recall any gap > 50. So the UI can be used.

What does all this mean? Well, as I see it, the lure of the new Tradeskill UI will attract some that see it as an easy way to GM a skill. These individuals are often short sighted and forget about things like getting supplies (whether vendor sold or farmed), selling the final product (bazaar or merchant), and other such things. If they are looking for a cheap and easy trophy, brewing (usually the favorite), may not be right for them as they must manually click for 70+ skillups (in my case with 193 int 150 attempts).

For others who are using tradeskill as an way to obtain something (for a quest or better stuff for themselves), it is an easier way. And as the skill gets higher and the combines become > 2 items, the time saved will be worth it.

Personally I doubt that we'll have 10k GM brewers running around. And yes, there are many ways to GM any of these skills. I was just analyzing what is the common way to skillup on these skills. And for people who dislike tradeskilling, I doubt that the UI will change their mind. But I am looking forward to making CEs with a little less effort (like clicking the container closed, stacking the items, selecting 2 of the same item). All of those misclicks slow me down. And when you need 400 CEs for a run of 100 CVTs, each misclick adds up.

I don't know how the end result will be, but having tested it out, I sent my feedback on every issue I could discover. Whether or not anything will be done... well I'll be watching in February.

[Arghargh]

I suspect this question will be lost in the chatter, but here goes. What does the new trade-UI do when you have more than one tradeskill container open at once? What if the tradeskill containers are for the same skill, or different skills?

Take Blessed fishing rods for example. They take fishing, smithing, tailoring, and brewing to make. I usually have a tackle box, and a forge open. Smith the velium bits, then the reel, and drop it in the tackle box. Will each container have its own recipe and favorites list? Misty Thicket Picnics are another example. I usually have an oven, and a mixing bowl open. This time, two containers, but only one trade skill.

What I've seen so far, I mostly like. However, the combine delay has got to go.

Arghargh Grumble, Darkblood
65 Ogre Shaman of Rallos Zek

200 Alchemy
210 Baking
250 Blacksmithing
250 Brewing
200 Fishing
200 Fletching
200 Jewelry
200 Pottery
170 Tailoring

[Sylphan]

1 praise. Apparently the interface hides any recipes for which you'd have a 20 percent chance of success or less. This seems just right. Already jewelers in the 100-200 range will scroll through a very long list of recipes to find the one they want. But if any more were hidden it would be very difficult to use the interface to skill up tailoring. I doubt there's any chance of changing this short of a major rehaul, such as a decision that the interface should only show trivial recipes.

2 suggestion. I think the Collapsed Fletching Kit should be changed so that its clicky effect brings up the new interface instead of summoning an actual container. Then if you click on the 'experiment' button, it would go ahead and summon the actual container as it does now. This would be a huge boon.

3 plea. I still want a button in the options window to turn off the new interface. I want to have everything work just like it does now when it's disabled. I'll just add that the Collapsed Fletching Kit will also need to skip straight to summoning the actual container when it's disabled.

[Cayleu Starshine]

I am open to the possibility that people like me have overblown the impact of the new UI changes in terms of trivializing the effort. However, the 0-75 skills are not typically painful at all. People tend to quit after 100, after which the new UI will make skilling up pretty trivial. We are going to have a flood of new GM's after this.

However, rather than strongly oppose the new UI, I am only apathetic and a little disgusted, because the tradeskill economy is already wrecked. This change isnt going to inflict a lot of extra damage.

[Velvett]

I registered just to make this post.

As a young bard, I learned quickly that I could make a good profit by making Celestial Essences. I feel this is because, those with lots of plat and little time were willing to pay me 5pp each for my taking the time to make the CE's. I think those with little plat, choose not to take the time to compete with me.

The new UI will do two things Im not very excited about.

1. Those with lots of plat can now save it, because they can click and make CEs much easier than before.

2. Those that saw making CE's a waste of time will now begin to make them.

Both of those points will reduce the amount of plat I can earn as a newbie trade skiller.

Now.. the 200+ smith and the 250 brewer in me.. are liking this new UI.

I just hope that some concern has been placed on how this will effect the newbie, want to earn some plat to buy that Centi Shortsword for 300.

Velvett Fog
Death Misdealt
Sol Ro