Exploit fixed on Live servers

[Takeshi]

You guys really shouldn't be so zealous about deleting details or links in this case. The exploiting is going so far beyond tradeskill combines and macroing that it's almost unbelievable. People playing the game need to know what's happening. I suggest all of you reading this thread go to the popular class boards and read up on exactly what's been going on in your game.

[sumamael]

Do not post dupes, suspected dupes, things that might cause dupes or links to sites with such information (especially if that site also has a link to a plat for cash site).
If you know of a possible dupe, send it to the Dev Corner. We're investigating every report, no matter how crazy they sound.

Posting them and claiming that you want it stopped is like handing out handguns and demanding stronger laws against them at the same time.

Imo it's the first Absor post worth quoting over and over

Anyway, the EQTC staff here is genuinely concerned about people getting into trouble if they try out the exploits posted on this board so posts containing such information will be removed.

It has nothing to do with being over zealous.

[kiztent]

Originally posted by sumamael
Imo it's the first Absor post worth quoting over and over

I disagree. Sony has a history of ignoring various exploits until they make a huge splash on the message boards. The faster dups are publicized, the faster they get spiked.

[sumamael]

You are free to disagree Kiztent, however if EQTC does not wish to be a channel for publication of exploits then it won't be, regardless if the posters' purpose is crusade or havoc.

[KyrosKrane]

I see a lot of similarity between how Sony handles exploits and how Microsoft handles security bugs. If you report a problem quietly to either one, they either don't acknowledge it, or else they give you a generic thank you and file your item at the bottom of a stack of things to do. Maybe if you're lucky, many weeks later, they'll get around to looking at the problem and finding a fix.

If you publicize the problem, though, and make a big enough stink, then miraculously enough, a patch is released post-haste. A few days later, the problem is gone.

Security through obscurity never works unless you can control ALL information about your product. In the real world, when your product is in the open, that cannot happen. Hence, you punish your legitimate users by hiding critical information from them (if you were a system administrator, wouldn't you want to know about that big, gaping hole in your system defenses?), while the hacker-types have full access to the bugs ... and using them, your company's secrets.

Same with EQ. People who figured out the macros/bugs/exploits were able to take advantage of them to wreck the economy, and in large part, nothing was done about it because there was no stink. When people exposed the flaws, Sony stepped in and fixed them ... though perhaps in a non-optimal way. I might post my feelings about this particular fix in the Primal Scream room later.

[Brodder FoamyMugs]

Simple thing to do when you spot macroers...
Wait till they run to the merchant or for a pause and insert an extra item into a bottom slot at random of said combine ...what works best is a no drop item that can be used for tradeskills...he won't be able to pick it up due to code...
Watch and wait...eventually the real person will come to clean the forge/brewbarrel or what not.
And then when he can't use it cause of no-drop in it...
Not sure that works anymore.
But macroers usually are maintained by a porting class that's bound near a bank (for cash transfers when mule-macroer-bot) is too heavy with cash and will be heavy themselves...
Other fun- killing merchants is frowned upon.
BUT SOE could take a page and add to game's immersiveness by making merchants and others take lil potty breaks or in case of dwarfs a Guild sanctioned beer and biskit break every so often.
IF pathing them to the nearest pub is out- then just put a random timer on them. Suddenly... someone goes to buy from them and get's the following message.

"Sorry bub, we're closed for a few . It's our Beer Break/Lunch/Dinner/Breakfast Break. Wouldn't want to be a scab, and break guild rules would I?"
If they continue to pester said merchant it can temporarily affect their faction with said merchant (ala Begging skill) and get em whooped.
Fetching the merchant his/her favorite snack/ale might redeem you, but only once a break...so piss em off too much, you'll need to repair faction with that one merchant, with favors. Of course this faction would reset automatically every patch.
But macroers who are afk and happen to hit a merchant on break would entirely be assured that they'd piss off said merchant to the eventual point of a smack down.
Problem solved.
Puts a pause in their programs, and variations in replies by the merchants can be varied enough that programing them all into if clauses would make life hell and macro programs cumbersome.

Don't make "breaks" standard. Ie with set times...give em set times with +/- 45 minutes. No break to take longer than 5 +/-4.5 minutes.
That'd make it at most a 9.5 minute break, and would let side show dialogues to take place in game between merchants and passing PC's.
A woman passes by and they could hoot/holler whistle...
Gnome merchants could beg passing players and make jokes about it.
Script possibilities are endless and would not cut into normal quest dialogues they have. It's on or off... Quest stuff is ON when they are OFF break and open shop. Quest stuff and selling/buying is Off when they are on break.

Start with the most popular macro merchants.
hell, introduce Repairmen, cleaners, inspectors that path between forges brewbarrels etc and take em offline for cleaning, maintenance and inspection.
Bug them and they take longer and get pissed off.
Max time again 5 minutes on each one. Once every 5-6 hours +/- 4 hours.
Highly used sites would need more cleaning, inspecting too neh?
For areas like Kaladim allow em to zone too.

[eniamn]

god that would be awesome brodder. the dwarves whislting at the girls going by. make a comment about them high elves are too stuck up and scrawny. i want a women with some hair. would ad so much more immersiveness and rp value while stopping macroers.

[warrenn]

It wasn't the macro-ers who were throwing the economy out of whack. There have been worse macros in the past than the MQ ore one and they never tilted the economy so much.

What happened this time is that there was a way to dupe plat using the shared slot in your bank. People could generate millions of plat in a matter of minutes. So start with 10k, turn that into 20k, turn that into 40k, etc. There was no upper limit. Double your cash whenever you wanted. That's what caused the problem this time.

[Sanna]

Hm. Just gotta be careful of new EQ players, or people otherwise out of the loop, unintentionally ruining their faction. Stopping illegal macroers = good. Hurting legit yet clueless players = bad.


Repairmen, cleaners, inspectors
Heheheh, reminds me of Rollercoaster Tycooon 2. That game is serious fun for like 4 weeks and 3 days. Then suddenly you have 0 desire to play it. /shrug. But I was ALWAYS having to hire more cleaning men, esp around the Really Thrilling Rides. Heh. I ended up having to pay more attention to my sweepers and mowers than I did to my park itself...

woops, sorry, that was way offtopic. Nice nostalgia tho.


Yes, brodder's idea sounds hilarious ^_^ and does sound verrrrrrry appropriate for the 'live' cities like starting cities, thurg, Katta, Shadowhaven. But Pok is a 'dead' city, that's why it's a no-pk zone on sullon and shadowhaven is a pking zone. SH is a live city, where race and faction matter and can be positively and negatively altered. I can see people getting a little miffed if the one person they need in pok suddenly takes a ten minute break, and then starts yelling random interjections at the nearest PC, which just so happens to be them.

On the other hand, EQ is still being touted as an MMPOR(p)G. I'm all for putting more RP back in ^_^.





to post an exploit or not to post an exploit. I hate to be a fence sitter here, I really do. Exploiters need to be stopped, and they need to be stopped in ways that are fair to and don't hurt legits. (The Cultural Needles 'fix' is, in my opinion, a way that hurt the legit players too.) I can completely understand the mindset of "Yes, post the exploit, put it up on boards all over the web; make a little mess into a big mess, and force SOE's hand in dealing with it."


On the other hand, this is not 'our' board. This is EQTC's board. If they don't want exploits or links to such posted here, that IS their right and prerogative.

(Look, I can learn my lesson. /close-sarcasm.)


Unfortunately, I don't see a solution. There has to be one, there always has to be one, but.... I don't know what it is. ^_^. Maybe we should get our own board; I can volunteer my dinky little EZBoard; and we can post exploit there in large letters and crappy leetspeak, and email the address to SOE and say 'fix this now plz k thx.'


-- Sanna
OMGOSH NEW SMILEYS. I don't normally like smiles but the bookworm is tooooo cute. (mushroom, mushroom!)

[Galain]

Cant leave a no drop item in an environmental container such as a forge or brew barrel anymore.

[Iannyen]

You can if you walk away from the forge, or escape out of it, unless the item won't physically go in the forge anymore.

*still grumbling about the smithing chisel being lore.

[kiztent]

Since no one evidently got this, I was responding to Sumamael's comment that Absor's comment about not posting dupes was a wise idea, not an attempt to set policy on this board.

[Galain]

I guess I should rephrase that. You cannot leave a no drop item in the forge and it still be in the forge for the next person to see it. At least you can't last I checked. I left a no drop item in a forge once to try to transfer it to my monk as a test and it wasn't there when I opened it. I assume it still works the same way.

[Verdandi]

Alrighty, regarding EQTC's policies about the posting and/or discussion of exploits. From Visitor's Corner, posted by Niami:

7. Do not try to use these forums to advertise/discuss cheats, exploits and tradeskill macros. We've worked hard to develop a working relationship with SoE so that bugs can be addressed quickly, and we don't want it ruined by some d00ds who feel the need to exploit game mechanics and then brag about it. If you've found what you think is an exploit and want to get it fixed, please DO contact SoE directly about it. If it needs urgent flagging, you can also PM me and I'll alert the appropriate folks. Once you've reported it, STOP using whatever cheat/exploit it is ... we've known tradeskillers who've gotten banned from the game for using such things after they've reported them in as exploits.

Our reasons, in no particular order:

#1 - We do not want people to get banned for doing something they read about on our boards. I don't care how much you plaster "DO NOT DO THIS" all over the post, people will plunge on without reading it. Anyone who has observed our attempts at information management with new expansions can attest to that. Yes, you could say that it would be their own fault. But it would not have happened had we not allowed the information here.

#2 - We demand respect on our boards. This includes not just respect for fellow players but also for the developers. The responsibility for Everquest ultimately falls on the SOE staff and not on any of us. When something as potentially serious as this sort of exploit is found, we will handle it in the manner they request, because they're the ones in deep doo-doo should the problem escalate.

#3 - We are human. Your moderators and I only have so much time and energy. I enjoy maintaining and furthering knowledge and discussion about tradeskills. We do not enjoy being hijacked for other people's personal causes. If you wish to undertake a crusade to change how SOE handles exploits and related information, you are free to start your own website and/or message board for that purpose. You will not use our time and energy and Niami and Ngreth's bandwidth to do it here.

You can discuss the fact that exploits are out there and how they are handled. It is an issue of interest to the community, that's fine. But you will not describe how they work, link to descriptions of how they work, or in any other way attempt to enable people to do them. And a reminder, although it hasn't been a big problem in this case (which I appreciate): criticism will stick to the policies surrounding exploits and not the people behind them.

That is our stance, unless Niami or Ngreth state otherwise. It is closed for discussion on our boards. As always, you can PM myself or Niami or Ngreth if you have questions about the way things are handled on the boards.

[Niami DenMother]

Verdandi is right on the money on this one.

If you know information on an exploit, do NOT post on these boards with how to use the exploit. Period. As with any of our rulings, if you refuse to respect this ruling, you can be asked to leave without additional warning. It being spelled out in the rules that you're supposed to read before posting here IS your warning.

SoE needs to know about the exploits - our community does not. Posting it here not only gives the site a bad rep, but it can get gullible folks into much trouble. We WILL NOT go there. That's not what we pay for all this bandwidth for.

We have handled PMs (private messages) about some of the more urgent exploits, and forwarded them on to SoE in a pinch, but we'd rather not be put in the middle like that if at all possible, as it adds more delay into getting the issue before the folks that can truly fix it.