Fan Faire- how'd it go?

[Enchanter]

Originally posted by Taushar
/snip, snip/ When someone complained that the tradeskills were very boring and is there a way to make it more intersting, the panel asked for some suggestion. I volunteered one of my ideas. I told them that if they made the stats of crafted items to be variable, it would be more interesting. For example, if I were to make an item with wisdom of 6 currently, depends on success of the item, same item may come out with wisdom of 10 or 2, with the average being 6. The variation can be on any stats. I think this would make items more interesting to make and you can keep the best to sell and rest can be sold back to vendors or given away/destroyed. The sub-combines also contribute to the final item, so better sub combine items you start with, better chance of making better final item./snippity, snip/

Taushar

It's good to be brainstorming about ideas to make skills more interesting, and less "streaks of mindless clicking". This idea would seriously make me reconsider tradeskills if implemented, however. I'm already too often at the mercy of the RNG, to give it even MORE say in my crafting would just about be enough to take the joy completely out of Norrath for me. Others may feel differently of course, but I imagine I'm not alone either.

[Heartsong_Steelsoul]

re: rpg. The latest book for the RPG is the Temple of Sol Ro, including all the mid level armor quests (plus the non-existant druid, monk and beastlord ones). I haven't bought it yet, but I'll see what it has tradeskill quest wise in it when I do.

I admit I also have the one before it, Al'Kabor's Arcana and haven't gotten a chance to look at it too closely...

[kiztent]

Originally posted by Enchanter
It's good to be brainstorming about ideas to make skills more interesting, and less "streaks of mindless clicking". This idea would seriously make me reconsider tradeskills if implemented, however. I'm already too often at the mercy of the RNG, to give it even MORE say in my crafting would just about be enough to take the joy completely out of Norrath for me. Others may feel differently of course, but I imagine I'm not alone either.

Agreed here. I'm totally and completely opposed to the variable rewards on tradeskill combines. Now instead of mindless hours of retarded farming to hope a combine is successful, I have MORE mindless hours of retarded farming because I need to hope I succeed AND hope I get good stats - no one will buy an item without the 'best' stats, unless the inferior stats are good enough to sell - which they're not in general now.

Imagine farming for, say, a pair of farwater greaves (most of the temper drops are from raid targets in water - or whichever plane doesn't ave single groupable temper targets) and ending up with only 10 HP and 30 AC on them. Back you go to farm again.

[Asmo]

JCM?

Noone asked the imo most important question, if/when will they fix JCM?

[Furyrpied]

Did anyone ask if they broke vendor mining on purpose?


and if so... why????

*sobs*

or did i miss them getting fixed? It's been a while

[eniamn]

wouldn't mind a bonus for being above trivial. maybe a rare extra metal bit at 120+ or an extra couple points in banded ac at 190 instead of 115. that seems appropriate even.

[Taushar]

Originally posted by kiztent
Agreed here. I'm totally and completely opposed to the variable rewards on tradeskill combines. Now instead of mindless hours of retarded farming to hope a combine is successful, I have MORE mindless hours of retarded farming because I need to hope I succeed AND hope I get good stats - no one will buy an item without the 'best' stats, unless the inferior stats are good enough to sell - which they're not in general now.

Imagine farming for, say, a pair of farwater greaves (most of the temper drops are from raid targets in water - or whichever plane doesn't ave single groupable temper targets) and ending up with only 10 HP and 30 AC on them. Back you go to farm again.

Well, I can understand your point of view. However, here is how I see it. The variable stats have to be fair and evenly distributed among stats above current item and stats below current item. If that is the case, I wouldn't mind that at all. I mean if the item had 6 wisdom on it now, I would love to have a chance at the same item made to be at 10 wisdom. Of course there is a chance that it will be lower but that's the chance you take. Yes the people will want the best stat items but they will have to pay for them. If people can't quite afford the best, then they will buy the lower stat ones for cheaper.

I never played DAoC but I am playing SWG and it's kind of similar idea. As an Artisan, I would never need to get the best stats pistols to hunt with since what I need to kill is not for xp but mostly for drops. I need something that will do the job for me but I don't want to pay double for something that gives me 10% increase in stats. I think the economy will handle the same kind of diversity eventually as people who wants the best will buy whatever the cost and the rest will buy what they can afford.

Taushar

[kiztent]

Originally posted by Taushar
Well, I can understand your point of view. However, here is how I see it. The variable stats have to be fair and evenly distributed among stats above current item and stats below current item. If that is the case, I wouldn't mind that at all. I mean if the item had 6 wisdom on it now, I would love to have a chance at the same item made to be at 10 wisdom.

To use your example, you're asking that a combine that would yield Elder spiritist legs should yield tunarian soldier leggings instead. I don't see this happening. Ever.

EQ stats do not have a linear effect on price. Compare say, a polished bone bracer to a golden bracer to a gold chitin bracer. The last 2 are significantly more expensive than the first one - though you'd expect 2 times based on the stats, it was considerably more.

This would imply to me some sort of decay function in the 'making better' rate, that is, an item with better stats will be LESS likely than one with worse stats.

For example, let's say the items referenced above were priced at 100pp, 2000pp and 5000pp (old prices I know), you'd need 3 PBBs for every gold chitin bracer to preserve the same net gain from the combine (a 2k average item).

I bet it would cause more complaining than good (adding some way to improve items that repected the average value of the sold good). WAY more complaining.

If it didn't and the different stats were all equally probable it would be massive mudflation to tradeskills - something I don't see happening.

I'd rather see well enough left alone than an idea like this badly implemented.

As for critical successes - I'd rather not see the whole market for tradeskill items, such as it is, handed over to the 250 power skillers.

[Enchanter]

Originally posted by kiztent
/snip, snip/ This would imply to me some sort of decay function in the 'making better' rate, that is, an item with better stats will be LESS likely than one with worse stats./snip/

I'd rather see well enough left alone than an idea like this badly implemented.

As for critical successes - I'd rather not see the whole market for tradeskill items, such as it is, handed over to the 250 power skillers.

/applaud kiztent/ Exactly.

[Taushar]

This would imply to me some sort of decay function in the 'making better' rate, that is, an item with better stats will be LESS likely than one with worse stats.

Again, that's what YOU are implying. What I said was that this would work only if there is a linear relationship between the lower and higher stat items, not a logarithmic relationship. If what you implied is what they implement, I would not want that either. When I mentioned this issue, they clearly understood that the linear function what I asked for.

Again, I never said there would be a linear relationship between the stats and prices. What I said was the market would bear whatever price difference the stats would bring.

Taushar

[Angelsyn]

Unfortunately, applying pure logic to your idea indicates that higher skill people will have a higher chance of getting a better item.

Instead of that, I'd like to see "Advanced Tradeskills".

Maybe with Advanced Tradeskills, you could turn certain existing items into Type-1 Augments.

Or create a new catagory... Type-7 Augment Slots, that only appear on Tradeskill Crafted items. A Type-7 Augment Slot should take any Type-1 or Type-7 Augment.

Then a sufficiently advanced Jewelcrafter (for example) could turn a Plat-Jasper Ring into a Type-7 Augment with +6 Wis. Or a sufficiently advanced Potter could turn a Faithstone of Tunare into a Type-9 Augment with Prayer to Tunare on it.

A sufficiently advanced Tailor might create +Mana augments, while a sufficiently advanced Smith might create +AC augments. A Baker or Brewer might create +1 Regen Augments.

By limiting these items to Type-7 Slots, you make it so that only certain things (Player-made items & PoT Loot {by making Slot-8 accept Type-7 Augments}) can use them.

Which, in turn, increases sales of Player-made items.

[eniamn]

not for or against just something to think about.

BAD: someone saves up for an item. farms everything themself to try and get it cheaper. you combine it for them and the velium jasper (normal +7 wis ring) is +4 wis. normal platinum is 5. they just spent 3 times as much on a ring that isn't much better than the +2 silver ring. for about 100 times the cost.

GOOD: working hard on skilling up. lets say your a cleric making sand blasted. your normal breastplate is better than the average sand blasted breastplate. you do a combine and WOW! you just managed to make yourself an upgrade. not a big one but you can sell your 2k item and get an extra point of wis and +3 ac. (sorry nothing specific here. i a wizard. not good with plate)

if each thing is variable you could end up with the +30 mana, -10 str + 6 int ring for sol ro instead of +45, -8, +8 respectively. if it was all + or - depending on one role would end up with super stuff or absolute ****.
simple answer to all this is select if you want "risky" tradeskilling before each combine. set it as normal default and then can select a "risky" combine to see if the rng smiles on you. would solve most of the problems. wouldn't risk stuff you couldn't really afford too. would end up with kick ass mtps though. stacking issues become a problem though. lots of possible id number issues.

how about allowing tradeskillers to combine augs with items and it gets a star or something. (doesn't have to be a star but for dark cloud ppl) item is permanently auged to that item but gives it a star instead of filling the aug slot. (maybe only tradeskill augs if they make those) that item is now tradeable with that effect. limit number of stars or require things like jasper for 1 star, ruby for 2, blue diamond for 3, brain of cazic thule for 4, quams head for 5 sort of thing. increase dificulty of component cost for each star. tradeskill augs are simpler. this was just an idea i liked. would have to limit it to certain type augs though. maybe up to 3 tops. would get really powerful with 3 star ft2 augs and a normal ft2 aug though. just got ft 8. maybe this would get too powerful.

angelsyn. what type of aug would be made by something with a lot of stats though? my sol ro rings. would love to aug a couple other things with them. then i sticking on +str stuff but have gotten massive +mana and int and fr augs. just curious.

plat sink. make vials of mana from a merchant. about 5pp above enchanter cost item. many ppl wouold go ahead and get from merchant rather than mess with chanter.

[kiztent]

Originally posted by Taushar
Again, that's what YOU are implying. What I said was that this would work only if there is a linear relationship between the lower and higher stat items, not a logarithmic relationship. If what you implied is what they implement, I would not want that either. When I mentioned this issue, they clearly understood that the linear function what I asked for.

Again, I never said there would be a linear relationship between the stats and prices. What I said was the market would bear whatever price difference the stats would bring.

Taushar

Well, yes, I agree. I was pretty sure you had linear in mind, and given the relationship between prices and stats, this would either kick off a massive round of mudflation or cause them to re-value every recipie.

Instead of being annoying, I don't think this will happen given the current trends I see in the game design.

[Maevenniia]

Holy derailed thread Batman!


Guys, nice idea and all, but can we get back to what's important here?


Where's teh l337 Fan Faire infoz ?!

[kiztent]

Originally posted by Maevenniia
Where's teh l337 Fan Faire infoz ?!

That was actually suggested at the 1 pm tradeskill panel