HMP vs MTP

[Lilirith]

I went form 201 to 250 doing MTP and only MTP..sold what I made as fast as I made em.. took me 5 days to go from 202 to 250 doing 200 combines a day. int of only 212.

[Cigarskunk]

Then again - I hit 250 before they made it easier to get skill ups

I don't recall them ever saying that they were making anything other than smithing and tailoring easier? I do know that they made fletching and pottery harder, but I thought that they left everything else alone?

[Noni DeeCups]

They made them all easier except fletching and pottery which they made harder - why??? I dunno /shrug

I can understand the pottery due to the Thurg potion but I don't understand why they had to fiddle with fletching.

Edit: Figured I would add the patch message just in case you had any doubts:

Patch Message for October 16th, 2002
October 16, 2002 4:30 am
------------------------------

** Trade Skills **

- Made it slightly easier to get skill increases while doing Tailoring, Tinkering, Smithing, Baking, Brewing and Alchemy. Made it slightly more difficult to get skill increases with Pottery and Fletching

http://eqlive.station.sony.com/community/dev_view.jsp?id=52319

[Cigarskunk]

Edit: Figured I would add the patch message just in case you had any doubts:

Interesting - tinkering and baking did not register to me - especially odd since I'm a baker.

Thanks for the info - now I can take console in the fact that if it wasn't for the patch I'd not be nearly as far as I am on the close to 1500 combines I did from 191-216. :shock:

[chernabog]

Now what I find ridiculos is the name. Halas ten-pound meat pie. No such thing as a pound in Norrath. Items are weighed in "stones". Go figure... :P

To pick a bit of a nit here, actually 10 lb Halas pie is totally accurate. The weight in game is 7.2 stones. A Stone is a British measurement that equals 14 lb. So, 7.2 st * 14lb/st = 10 lb. Still don't know why they didn't call it a 7 Stone Halas Pie.

& BTW, I make HMPs since I can sell them a lot easier.

[payens]

Now what I find ridiculos is the name. Halas ten-pound meat pie. No such thing as a pound in Norrath. Items are weighed in "stones". Go figure... :P

To pick a bit of a nit here, actually 10 lb Halas pie is totally accurate. The weight in game is 7.2 stones. A Stone is a British measurement that equals 14 lb. So, 7.2 st * 14lb/st = 10 lb. Still don't know why they didn't call it a 7 Stone Halas Pie.

& BTW, I make HMPs since I can sell them a lot easier.

Actually, that would make it a Halas 100 lb. meat pie (7.2 X 14 = 100.8)

Referring to pounds in the name is silly anyway, it should have been called 7 stone pie just to be consistent

[Cigarskunk]

To pick a bit of a nit here, actually 10 lb Halas pie is totally accurate. The weight in game is 7.2 stones. A Stone is a British measurement that equals 14 lb. So, 7.2 st * 14lb/st = 10 lb. Still don't know why they didn't call it a 7 Stone Halas Pie.

They never equated any real world weight to the game weights - 7.2 is 7.2 Norath standard weight units - they aren't pounds, they aren't stones, they aren't kilos, they aren't anything - they just are.

And for the less serious standard answer to the wieght to name disparity - obviously the 10lb refers to the before cooking weight just like 16oz steaks and 1/4 pound burgers don't weigh that much when they're put in front of you.

[KyrosKrane]

I think this is careening towards a dead-horse post, but here goes anyway.

Aren't there a bunch of fish named X lb. Fetid Bass or some such? I remember seeing links to several of those at one point, and the in-game weight was always exactly 1/10th of the named weight. That is, the 10-lb. fish had a weight of 1.0, the 13-lb. version had a weight of 1.3, and so on.

That would suggest some basis for comparison. Either these fish REALLY shrink in cooking (and for that matter, you can eat them raw! Sushi anyone? Where does the weight go there?) or else either the fish or the pies are on the wrong scale.

Perhaps it's an archaic naming convention on Norrath? 10-lb. fish really did used to weight 10 pounds, but right about the time the beta ended, a cataclysmic event shook the oceans and shrunk some things to 1/10th their previous size, while enlarging others! That would explain the odd visual discrepancy between the nominally-small pirana and the nominally-huge sharks.

Edit: Perhaps the meat pies themselves got misnamed at some point? It was really supposed to be 100-lb. meat pie pre-cooked weight, which would fit with the fish weight scale, and also justify their Giant size. Somewhere along the line, the name lost a zero, and we ended up with the 10-lb. meat pies.

[Frabbens]

Actually, 7.2 stone at 14lb/stone would be 100 pounds, not ten. A hundred pounds of meat pie could feed all of Rivervale for about twelve minutes. Maybe Norrathian weight is in tenths of British stone?

Exercise for the reader: anyone have a weight list for the various sizes of fetid bass fished in Firiona Vie? Those have assigned weights (3lb fetid bass, etc.), so there should be a pattern. (Been debating setting up a guild "bassmaster" event on the docks there.)

EDIT: That's really creepy. (I didn't notice there was a page two to the thread already.) That's cool if it's correct about the fetid bass weights, but obivously gets us no closer to a standard convertible weight unit.

[Velurian]

Re: HMP vs MTP

To make 40 attempts at HMP -
(snip...)
40 dough (asuming use basilisk egg) = 3

Did just notice one problem in your numbers, though it only changes the total number of combines by three -- each HMP requires two dough, rather than one.

Just did my first stack of HMP, working on the last ten points or so to 200 (not high enough level for NTCM yet, and even when I am, baking isn't my first priority for those 3 AAs ). It's going to be my last stack for a while. Did get one skillup, so it wasn't a total loss, but MTPs have got to be better than this. (On the positive side, I didn't have a single fail on the final combines, which seemed vaguely freakish given that I'm still 30-some points from trivial.) I can also be fairly sure of selling as many MTPs as I can make at 10pp or more -- HMPs seem to go for 4pp or less the vast majority of the time.

[Cigarskunk]

but MTPs have got to be better than this

Hey, we're back on track!

That's what I keep telling folks.

To make the pie, you're not doing better than 10 combines off of any one ingredient that you're using which means that if you can't buy them (and I wasn't finding any mamoth meat on Xev atleast) then you're going to have to farm it yourself - that's two dead mamoths for every stack of combines (asuming that EVERY mamoth drops meat). That means that for me to have trivialed on them I would have needed 210 mamoth meats - that's a boat load of mamoths.

On the other hand, the picnics only real choke point item (the brownie parts) give you 100 combines per part which means that I've only used one stack of brownie parts to get just as far on MTPs.

Now, true, the MTPs do require some skill in the four other tradeskills, but hey, anyone who's pig headed enough to GM any tradeskill is gonna get sucked into doing the rest of them anyhow.

[kiztent]

The problem I have with MTP is that I believe, deep down in my heart of hearts, that they are the devil. I believe the skill up fairy has cursed MTPs so that they may never bear fruit. I do HMP runs when my trader is sold out and buy PoP meat from vendors and bake those when I feel like I'm carrying too much jukn around.

Personally, I find HMP to be easier, and take up less bag space per combine (7 versus 8 stacks of ingredients per 20 combines) - which I know is minor.

[Laliana Silverfangs]

I have found that I skill-up faster on the HMP, then on the MTP. I however find that doing MTP are easier/quicker to get started on the finally combines. I find that after you've hit 200 baking that I have more skill-ups on the Anaconda melts, Griffon melts, and Cheesy vegetable casseroles. Example: I skill-up every 15 - 30 combines on the melts/casseroles, but I skill-up every 70 - 100 combines on the MTP. unfortunately, I don't remember now my skill-up to combines on the HMP.

So, in my opinion, if you can lvl in JP, it would be worthwhile to only make MTP, and HMP for resale purposes only, and not skill-ups. My choice however if I couldn't lvl in JP, would be HMP. Not because they are faster, but because I haven't triv'ed them, yet. I have more successes with them, and therefore, is more to my advantage.

Laliana Silverfangs
Druid of the 54th season
216 Baking, 187 Brewing

[Noni DeeCups]

Picnics. They taste better anyway and I am a halfling so maybeI am a litte bias :twisted: