HMP vs MTP

[Cigarskunk]

It has often been recomended that one skill up on Halas 10lb meat pies instead of Misty Thicket Picnics because the pies are easier to make - having just put together enough materials for 40 attempts at pies I can only ask "What the heck are you people thinking?!?!?!?"

To make 40 attempts at HMP -

40 mammoth fillets = 4 combines
40 wolf fillets = 4
40 bear fillets = 40
40 lion fillets = 40
160 cream fennel sauce = 31
160 _____ fillet in cream = 160
40 dough (asuming use basilisk egg) = 3
40 HMP attempts = 40

total combines = 322 seperate combines

To make 40 attempts at MTP -

40 mature cheese = 4 combines
40 royal mints = 4
40 jumjum salad = 4
40 jumjum spiced beer = 4
40 marmalade sandwich = 5
40 picnic basket = 12
80 slices jumjum cake = 11
40 MTP attempts = 40

total combines = 83 seperate combines

To make a HMP you need to combine 8 seperate items in the oven.

To make a MTP you need to combine 9 seperate items in the oven.

Cost for components would appear to be about the same per combine.

So, about the only real advantage of HMP over MTP is that the MTP requires a high brewing skill and a moderate smithing and tailoring skill.

Of course, for the 120 extra combines one would need for every stack of HMP vs every stack of MTP - let's say that it only takes one stack of combines per skill point from 191 to 226 - that's 35 points times 120 extra combines which means that using HMP to get those 35 points will result in 4200 extra combines (ie/ 210 extra stacks of combines).

Now, if someone could double check my math since it's been a long day, but I'm fairly sure that I'm correct on these numbers - I will not be doing any more HMP for anything other than profit baking after this.

[Iannyen]

Total combines for HMP > MTP. That is a fact. I find it easier to drag a backpack full of Bear and Lion meat into the field with me and filet them in my downtime though. After a few hours of soloing, I usually have a pack full of filet meat by the end of the day. If I decide to hold off on the HTP combines, I can spend the next day making some creamed filets in the same manner that I did the filets. So after 2 days of xp-farming I basically just have to find an oven and start cramming meat into it. Personal preference though.

Now what I find ridiculos is the name. Halas ten-pound meat pie. No such thing as a pound in Norrath. Items are weighed in "stones". Go figure... :P

[Lunira]

I recommend doing Halas Meat Pies first because they trivial at 226, and the trivial for Picnics is >=250.

I find that I get the most skill ups when I am doing something that is closer to my skill level. I would most likely do HMPs until about skill 220 then switch to picnics.

[Arghargh]

You forgot to include the sub-combines in the MTP (apricot marmalade, woven mandrake, steel bonings, jumjum cake (whole cake), dough, winter chocolate). HMP still takes more combines.

Easier in this context may mean simpler, not quicker. HMP have fewer base ingredients (10), and you do the same thing to each of four meats. MTP has more base ingredients (20), ten unique recipies, and more sub-combines. For HMP, you need to hunt for the wolf, and mammoth meats. MTP only needs one brownie part for 100 MTP attempts. MTP do need the foraged fruit, and veggies, but those aren't hard to find. HMP takes just baking skill, while MTP takes baking, smithing, tailoring, and brewing.

Arghargh Grumble, Darkblood
57 Ogre Shaman of Rallos Zek
Alchemy – 165
Baking – 200
Brewing - 200
Fishing - 200
Fletching – 200
Jewelcraft –200
Potting - 200
Grandmaster Smith - 250
Tailoring – 161

[Ausversucht]

HMP takes just baking skill, while MTP takes baking, smithing, tailoring, and brewing.

And those last two are the real kickers... I've always brought enough ingredients to do 200 combines in one run. Until I got my tailoring up into the 120's I always had to bring extra mandrake and boning, or just premake 40 picnic baskets and hope that would be enough. I still fail often on the beer with a 185 skill in brewing, but only usually 2 or 3 in a run.

This is only annoying because I prefer to do my baking in Freeport and always wind up having to do the last 40 combines in SH because I've run out of ingredients.

[Cigarskunk]

You forgot to include the sub-combines in the MTP (apricot marmalade, woven mandrake, steel bonings, jumjum cake (whole cake), dough, winter chocolate). HMP still takes more combines.

Nope - as you can see, I included all of the sub-combines in the formula - for example, I noted that 40 baskets = 12 combines - that's 4 combines to do the woven mandrake, 4 combines to make the boning and 4 combines of one woven mandrake and one boning.

If someone is doing the subcombines for the HMP while out hunting, I guess that can take the edge out of it - gives you something to do while medding/healing up, so in that case, the HMP would definately be a prefered method. Of course, this means that you're taking up a good chunk of inventory storing the meat, so any hunting would have to pretty much be XP only with limited loot.

Easier in this context may mean simpler, not quicker. HMP have fewer base ingredients (10), and you do the same thing to each of four meats. MTP has more base ingredients (20), ten unique recipies, and more sub-combines. For HMP, you need to hunt for the wolf, and mammoth meats. MTP only needs one brownie part for 100 MTP attempts. MTP do need the foraged fruit, and veggies, but those aren't hard to find. HMP takes just baking skill, while MTP takes baking, smithing, tailoring, and brewing.

I'm half German, so organisational issues have never bothered me - making everything work and having everything in it's proper place is more of an entertainment than an issue.

I do concure that they require a bit more running depending on what zone you're in, but once you've got your grove down and you lock down certain supplies at thier proper locations than that becomes a non-issue (atleast for me).

I've also had lousy luck with the mamoth meat - in the time it took me to score enough mammoth for 100 shots (the wolf meat is so easy to get that it's not even considered part of the equation) I was able to get enough brownie parts and foraged stuff for 1000 MTP attempts (I've actually got enough brownie parts to probobly get me to 250 actually ). But that's more a personal thing - some folks will find it easier to get mammoth than brownie and foraged items.

All said though, once I burn these last HMP combines, I'm only doing these suckers for sale and use - 8 subcombines per attempt vs 2 subcombines per attempt loses in my book

[Soulfiend]

MTP's all the way. I have made, 1000's of MTP's. Got it down to a fine art now and can make 200 in about 35 mins

My only attempts at HMP's was a disaster. Camping mamoths, then killing wolfs, filleting etc etc. It cost me a fortune in the end and I didn't have the right bags to carry them all, so I just gave them away to newbies in GFay and I didn't get a skill up

I must admit that MTP's is a real all-round tradeskill item. I really hated failing the picnic basket stage, but I have got the skills to do it 95% of the time.

ANyone want to buy some? :mrgreen:

[Noni DeeCups]

I made MTP for skill ups. Everything else was just for money or just to make something different for a break.

What I did... Killed brownies ( I needed the parts ) and got exp. While I would wait for the respawn I would do all the sub combines for the Halas Pies.

Go to SH and make the pies, dump them on my trader. Make Holy Cakes with the brownie parts, dump on trader.

Make a bazillion MTP. Dump on mules. I had over 3000 MTP's on one of my mules, that is all she was created for.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

Note: When I first started making the MTP for skill up the yields were not 10 on the sub combines

[Raolinx]

Hehe I Have been debating which i should do. Brewing is sufficient, Tailoring is slightly lagging but still doable, Smithing is horibble but can do bonnings. Did have limited space but with the new expansion hopefully that issue will be resolved. (multiple rentable bank slots anyone??) God i hope at least a doubling of current bank space.

I have enought supplies to do around 500 HMP then I will more than likely switch to MTP. (skil 191)



Edit cool didn't relize megelo 2 went live. So all my skills are current on that sight. (but not equipment.)

[Borick]

Misty Thicket Picnics are easier. So much easier that I'd get my tailoring and brewing up rather than do those ****ed pies.

If you know how to organize and combine things, you can make hundreds of MTP's in very short order in Shadowhaven. It just requires that you have about 5 empty ten-slot bags, a collapsed bowl and a sewing kit with you. Make up ten stacks of the beer before you do anything else, then make one stack of each of the subcombine components (Two stacks of cakes). Line everything up (Should take three bags), open the bags up, open a bowl up, then open the oven with an empty bag to the right and left of the oven.

Do your subcombines and line the stacks of items up in the empty bags on either side of the oven, four on one side, four on the other. Then just whip through the combines and stack the completed picnics in the available empty slots. As you finish twenty combines, you can go through the other subcombines to whip up the next 20 without ever leaving the oven. You can make 200 combines in about half an hour or so.

Do this eight to ten times and you will go from 200 to 250 baking and earn about 5-10k pp (I sold ALL of my picnics in the bazaar for 15pp each).

[Noni DeeCups]

Do this eight to ten times and you will go from 200 to 250 baking

Took me a lot longer than that! Then again, they changed the skill up rate after I already hit 250 /shrug

[Cigarskunk]

Do this eight to ten times and you will go from 200 to 250 baking and earn about 5-10k pp (I sold ALL of my picnics in the bazaar for 15pp each).

What was your INT - with an average INT of 160 I'm at 1000+ attempts and still at just 210 baking - unless things get really easy over the next 600-1000 combines, I'm not seeing me picking up another 40 skill ups.

Profit on success isn't half bad though - even at the current price of 8-10pp each, I'm not doing half bad for myself.

[Angelsyn]

Do this eight to ten times and you will go from 200 to 250 baking and earn about 5-10k pp (I sold ALL of my picnics in the bazaar for 15pp each).

What was your INT - with an average INT of 160 I'm at 1000+ attempts and still at just 210 baking - unless things get really easy over the next 600-1000 combines, I'm not seeing me picking up another 40 skill ups.

Profit on success isn't half bad though - even at the current price of 8-10pp each, I'm not doing half bad for myself.

The 190-210 range (and slightly above/below) seems to be the "hell levels" for most tradeskills... It certainly is for Smithing!

[Noni DeeCups]

Hell level or not - It took me a LOT more than that to get to 250 in Baking and my wis was already at 255 since around 130 in baking.

That is a gross understatement. I do not think I was incredibly unlucky either. Then again - I hit 250 before they made it easier to get skill ups /shrug I still doubt they made it THAT much easier.

[Borick]

Sorry for the lateness of the reply. My Wisdom was at 275 for the entire time that I was skilling up. From 200 to 250 took me just over 1600 combines, or eight sessions of making MTP's.

I didn't really do that all with MTP's though. I had about 300 combines between HMP's (The devil) and cheese casseroles (Lousy payoff). I only did about 1300 MTP combines all told.