Notice of Upcoming Changes to the game. (parody)

[rasi]

Well i couldn t have made my point in a better way than you just did Ngreth....anyway i was able to say what i thought about these tradeskillchanges and the devs that implemented them....
As i stopped tradeskilling it isn t very important anymore (to me personally) and i wish all other peeps good luck on their combines.

rasi Lyonesse
Frayed Knot

[Boleslav]

Some people confuse the editing that gets done here with censoring the idea behind the post. Trust me, if the original post had the tone of "$#@$# SOE they screwed us again", that basic message will still be heard.

The devs that read this board and post here are well aware of the fact that many folks are displeased with the tailoring change. Leaving in the few thousand @#$@#@% that had been edited out would not have communicated that displeasure any more strongly.

There is value in keeping things civil. The main value is to the users of this site! I don't like to read through profanity-laced posts, especially when I am reading them at work, or around my children. Secondarily, keeping things civil allows the community to interact constructively with the devs that choose to post here. It doesn't mean that the community only tells the devs what they want to hear, it just means speaking politely enough to ensure they will listen to the message whatever it is.

Boleslav Forgehammer
Paladin of Brell in his 67th Campaign
E'ci – Sacred Destiny

[Darknyss]

I'm actually interested in the changes being made, and am holding off on smithing until everything is set in place.

I found it absurd that with enough money, one person could do a billion of one item and eventually hit GM... and even moreso when that item was either vendor trash, cheap twink gear, or tribute fodder.

Last time they changed tradeskills, they allowed everybody a window to ramp up their skill before implementing the change... and guilds took advantage of it by flushing out lvl 1 ogre and human GM smiths, and when the change hit, the market was totally out of whack.

We still have some time before they implement the change... and I'm sure even with a good change, it won't please everybody (as if that's possible).

I actually didn't find the post too funny... sarcastic, yes... but it just seemed more like whining than an attempt to be entertaining.

[rasi]

Well i sure would hate it if someone found my posts entertaining ... and i don t consider complaining about a well-planned attack on the tradeskillers as whining.
When someone is screwing me i tend to react whether you like that or not.
If you found it absurd that people with enough money could skill up on making the same combine over and over again.... well mostly there weren t many other ways that could be used as a skill-up path in the first place.
I really don t see how someone could consider this a < good > change getting skill-ups even harder to get (over 250 and 99% of all tradeskillers are at 250 in one or more tradeskills) and all the sony-pr lies won t change that.

rasi

[Lothay]

Rasi - Your comments are out of line. You are bordering on personal attacks, and you're flat out accusing someone of deliberately "screwing" you.

If you can't keep it civil, perhaps you need a vaccation. I'm keeping an eye on your posts. Any further dancing around the rules such as is in your last post will earn you a vaccation from posting here.

Let me remind you all, this is a discussion forum with enforced rules, and if you can't keep it civil, you can't play here.

[rasi]

Well correct me if you think i m wrong but my posts are way more civil than the changes to the tradeskills. I wonder how you can state that this is a " good " nerf?
I havent heard much arguments for the defence so to speak... on the contrary....i sure would have loved to read all the posts that were edited... quite sure my english would have been improved.
Maybe keeping things civil may have advantages ... so does getting a clear message across.

rasi

[Ngreth Thergn]

All that was edited was curses and insults.

If you cannot state yourself clearly without either of those, then don't post.

You keep saying the changes were not civil, well they were not made with a "lack of civility" in mind. But people posting here with insults, threats, and curses INTEND to not be civil and that we will not allow.

And I disagree with you that the changes were "not civil". I can agree that the changes were bad, but there was nothing intentionally "rude" or "insulting" about them. The changes did not call you names, the changes did not threaten to kill you, the changes did not curse at you. The changes may have been bad changes, they may have cost some people time and money in game, but they did not pop up a window, or respond in the chat channel with an insult. They did not go "haha sucker! why are you still making Solstice robes you suck!"

We are not saying you cannot clearly post that you are displeased with the changes, why do you think I left the original post even though I clearly disagree with the way it is phrased? We are saying that you must not result to insults, threats, or cursing while you state your displeasure. And I KNOW it is posible to state your displeasure without being insulting, cursing, or making a death threat. Look at this reply as an example.

Many people have been perfectly ably to post their extreme displeasure with the changes, on these boards, without resulting to insults, threats, or curses? Why is it more important to be able to spread filth, just to hammer home a point the dev's already understand?

Would you seriously be more likely to change something YOU did if somoene started calling you names and started cursing at you? Or would you be more likely to change if the person had a polite conversation with you, and told you that they really strongly disliked what you were doing? I am not saying that in either case you would actually change, but which way would get better results from you? Especially if you had the option to just stop reading one or the other or both?

I know I have not stated that the changes to Tailoring were good. I am fairly certain that no mod has stated that the changes were good. I disagree that the changes were "rude". I agree that the changes were bad. I agree that the changes SHOULD have been reversed. Please don't say we think the "nerf" was a good thing, none of us has said this. All we have said is that you may not resort to name calling, cursing, or death threats in expressing your displesure.

[rasi]

Great post ngreth... it was the first time i read you consider this a bad change and so we do agree on more things than one would expect.
/bow

rasi Lyonesse
Frayed Knot

[Wyvernwill]

Would you seriously be more likely to change something YOU did if somoene started calling you names and started cursing at you? Or would you be more likely to change if the person had a polite conversation with you, and told you that they really strongly disliked what you were doing? I am not saying that in either case you would actually change, but which way would get better results from you? Especially if you had the option to just stop reading one or the other or both?

This actually rings true to a recent Real Life experience I had with a superior for the company that I am contracted under.

Lately, there have been a lot of issues coming up that have been out of our control, but we have been taking the heat for it. As the last few weeks past, the heat turned into a full on assault pretty much. It seemed like every day we were dealing with multitudes of frustrated people taking it out on us. More problems happened because me and my coworker spent more time brooding and irritated at the world than we did focused on our work. Those people doing nothing but tearing us down got to us.

Finally, one day, the above noted superior brought work to add on to my day from a different site. At this point, I lost my cool. For the next hour and a half, me and him sat in a conference room venting everything at each other. Voices raised a bit here and there, but things were kept civil, and key things were addressed. In the end, both of us grew to have a better understanding of the other's situation. Since then, both me and my coworker have been treated more respectably, something that had been really irking us... and we've also had no issues happen for the last week.

Long story short of how this relates is quite simple... When you can control yourself enough to talk to the problem and figure out why things are happening the way they are and keep an open mind to be patient, most people are more willing to be reasonable. When you act like someone is "scrooging" you, you think like you've been "scrooged," act like it, and when you get to that point, most people are beyond reasonable reactions.

You just have to take your time, sit back and keep an open mind. They heard the arguments why to change things back, but they also stated that they were not willing to change them back. It's time to move on. Let it go. Tailoring lost an old farmable means to skill up, but there are still farmable means there. Tailoring is the last pure tradeskill left. Tailoring is the only tradeskill that has a challenge to it in it's current state. Though, I guess a lot of people don't see the reason for trades to be difficult. Trades must just be all about the 1750 and 2100 clubs. Just like Hps, it's all based to stroke the ego.

[Ngreth Thergn]

And just to be clear.

Overall I think the idea of ajusting trivials is a good thing, overall. It has some side effects that are not pleasant, but it is still a good thing overall.

I do think that this change, totally unanounced, with no warning was a bad thing and should have been reversed for at least a short period of time. I tihnk the ajustment should have been made to all tradeskills at the same time, and with ample warning that the change is coming (as it is)

AND I do understand that it was a mistake that these changes were put on the server with no warning, and that the dev's did not intend for it to be on the server yet. But despite that, and despite the etra work it would take to reverse it, I believe it should have been reversed. Maybe even more since it was a mistake and had such a negative impact on just one tradeskill. If they had planned to nerf all caster damage for all classes (they plan the reverse) and they only nerfed wizard in an accidental early push of code that was still under testing... do you think they would acually leave it in the game? Probably not... so I don't see why tailoring had to be left the way it was. I understand not doing an emergency patch, since tailoring is such a comparatively small community... but still, it should have been set for the next patch that came for whatever reason. Again... this is just MY opinion, and not an official stance.

[Tsaos]

No answers...

I remember reading sometime ago, that something like 75% of the player base is 35-50*. Of the remaining player base, how many are in the "uber" guilds?

With this in mind, why is so much of the content (to include tradeskills) geared for the high end player? Just look at elemental bows/robes. I finally dinged 283 (being an iksar necro 69 and in a fully elemental, almost Time flagged, guild) in fletching doing elemental bows. What about these fabled basilisk teeth that drop in VP? I was able to solo one, but barely. There are what? 4 races that need basilisk teeth, yet they drop in a zone that requires a flag and only high end people really have access to it.

Look at the AA's. I have salvage 2, but can't have salvage 3 till I'm 70. Most of the people doing tradeskills could care less about leveling/xping. Let alone spending hours working on getting AA's. And then there are the drops that only show up in high end places, like Elementals or MPG. I've been to the Elites camp in WoS with tanks that were paper and clerics in post-GoD end game gear and STILL not able to keep the tank alive (every pull almost!). And don't get me started on the group i had in MPG where after 2 pulls the cleric was oom. There was no way I was ever going to see a lightning core drop there. Leveling and tradeskills should not go hand in hand. Just because you are lvl 70 and have access to all the awesome xp zones does not mean you should have exclusive rights on traderskills.

Lastly, why is the tradeskilled gear so bad compared to raid stuff? I've watched people do nothing but level, and get to 65 in a month. Then join a high end guild. I spend MONTHS on tradeskills and i can make gear that very few would even want. A lot of the gear coming out of oow is better than the gear I can make. And it is a lot easier to get. When will tradeskilled gear actually be useful? Especially with the drop rates/places of drops for this gear. The gear should certainly be better than elemental gear (4 expansions ago?)

Tradeskilling is one of the last things I enjoy in this game. My guild raids at least 5 nights a week. I solo most of my time besides that. But it is tradeskilling that is keeping me in the game. I took more pride in making my first elemental bows, than I did dinging 69. Tradeskilling doesn't have to be easy, but keep it enjoyable, keep it accessible, keep it fair, for all players.

*Take these numbers with a grain of salt, it was a while ago that I read this and I'm gettin' old.

[Ngreth Thergn]

Lastly, why is the tradeskilled gear so bad compared to raid stuff? I've watched people do nothing but level, and get to 65 in a month. Then join a high end guild. I spend MONTHS on tradeskills and i can make gear that very few would even want. A lot of the gear coming out of oow is better than the gear I can make. And it is a lot easier to get. When will tradeskilled gear actually be useful? Especially with the drop rates/places of drops for this gear. The gear should certainly be better than elemental gear (4 expansions ago?)

.

Becasue they can control the rate of dropped gear, more easilly than they can controll the rate of tradeskilled stuff. Tradeskilled stuff can be mass produced, some of the raid stuff can only be gotten once a week...

Now they could make an item in the tradeskilled stuff just as rre as the dropped stuff, but then that means raiders would learn tradeskills, just to get that stuff, and then you still would have to be a raider to get the item.

the basic answer is that SOE feels a need to control the rate that very high end stuff comes into the game, and tradeskills does not really allow them to control it.

[Kakg]

I remember reading sometime ago, that something like 75% of the player base is 35-50*. Of the remaining player base, how many are in the "uber" guilds?

You've got to wonder how many of those 75% are alts and second or even third accounts.

How does SOE count the player base? All characters or only the highest character on each account or the highest character at each postal address by billing info?

Of my 12 characters on Stromm, 1 is a non-KoS level 1 positioned over an epic camp to save me the walk. Another 2 are level 1 banking and bazaar mules. 2 more are level 20 alts that I'm not working on the moment. 2 more are currently level 30 and I'm actively levelling them up. 3 more are level 35 and are on hold till I bring the other two up to their level. And finally my main at level 66. All of my alts are used as spare bank space for my mains tradeskill and tinkering fetish so they all get aired for a minute or two each week while I carry out a stocktake.

Now I know I'm not alone in having so many alts at varying levels, so exactly how would SOE count up my flock and what effect would it have on that 75% figure?