GoD smithing floods server

[Aauminki]

I'm wondering how anyone that has raided Kod`Taz+ since the first weeks of GoD and then saw the increased stats on the weapons a bit back did not see this coming far far off. Our guild made some plat on these for reagents that will likely last us through GoD at least, and even at a much lower sales price we will still have a trickle effect to supply spending.

On the other hand, this may well be a way of SOE to put a baseline level 65 DPS for melee in order to easier balance damage output between melee and casters, since a lot of the quibble on every class balancing discussion so far has been balancing casters with spells from BoT and melee with PoTime phase 5/Q weapons. Now, with these weapons being commonplace (even moreso in the weeks to come) then there is an easy way to balance damage done since SOE can easily assume everyone has these.

[Koru]

Are you counting in failures both in subcombines and the final combine in your 1 weapon per hour estimate? And the amount that will get sold to full vendors? I've pulled a few of these components off of vendors, so there are people who will vendor sell these components and after a fairly short time the vendors those people will sell to can get full and end up poofing the items.

[Lickity]

Granted, this is the RNG, but I have made well over 30 of these weapons, failed on main combine, and one subcombine TOTAL. This is with maxed Smithing and JC (No JCM.) I think .9 is a more than fair estimate of how many failures there are.

In response to people complaining before about drop rates, yes people were ticked about the low drop rates in GoD before, but they had a different use then. The items were not good, and they were a skillup route. If VG weapons were nothing but a skillup route, they would be fine, but no one is skilling up on these things, they are selling them, and they won't be soon. God help us if 100 HP weapons become so trivial in EQ that they are being dropped on the ground outside the PoP Banks like Acrylia Studded Masks are now.

[Thorvari]

For Beastlords/Monks, the previous high end droppable weapon was the Golden Wraps of the Compact 17/21 75hp/30mana, that dropped in 65 Hard LDoN. On Vazaelle it listed in /baz for 75-80k. With the Velium Inlaid Claws being a 17/20 80hp/80mana weapon that is listing for 12k, it is really driving the market down.

Beastlords and Monks have always been crying for reasonably available H2H weapons, but this is taking it a bit far.

[Daikoku Ashikaga]

Spent 12 hours in Kt recently, got one ore, one nilite total, the group, not me.

drop ratess are not that high from what I have seen.

Dai

[Aneya]

On Tarew Marr Velium Inlaid claws have been hovering at 25-40k. Velium Gemmed Daggers are at 30-40k. This is dispite the fact that we have 4 guilds in Kod'Taz. Perhaps the problem is not so much the drop rate but people dumping GoD weapons in order to make a quick profit.

[Delores Mulva]

On Tarew Marr Velium Inlaid claws have been hovering at 25-40k. Velium Gemmed Daggers are at 30-40k. This is dispite the fact that we have 4 guilds in Kod'Taz. Perhaps the problem is not so much the drop rate but people dumping GoD weapons in order to make a quick profit.

It could also be an awareness issue. On my server there's two guilds and one four-boxer that know how much velium gemmed weapons are worth and make them for resale. Between the three of us there's more weapons coming into the market per day than are being sold. If the other guilds on the server started producing weapons for sale, even if they had no reserves of raw materials and just produced as items dropped, there wouldn't be a level 65 player with over 5 K pp on the server that didn't have a weapon as good as anything pre-PoP. I know some of those guilds don't know what these items are worth, as I follow their looters after raids and buy the stuff they sell to vendors.

Why is there an awareness issue? Darned if I know - it didn't last long in PoP. I think maybe guild leaders asked their tradeskill people if there's anything that can be made that guild members would use. When they heard "no", they stopped caring. I know my guild was pretty blase about it until the guild bank got low and they got tired of me pestering them over it.

[Aneya]

Between the three of us there's more weapons coming into the market per day than are being sold

If you guys are making more weapons then are sold you guys are It is your own fault that the market is saturated. Stop making weapons, sell what you got first then make more.

[Delores Mulva]

If you guys are making more weapons then are sold you guys are It is your own fault that the market is saturated. Stop making weapons, sell what you got first then make more.

You're missing the point. We don't have infinite storage space on our mules for all the stuff we get when raiding. We're making weapons at the same rate as we get the drops. That's more than what the market can handle, with only half the people who are getting this stuff bothering to do more than vendor it. The drop rate is too big. Trust me, I don't ask to be nerfed very often, so believe me when I ask to be nerfed now!

[Aneya]

Velium Gemmed Dagger requires, 2 shimmering Nihilites, 1 shimmering steel bar, 1 sheet of shimmering steel.

So, you could hold 3 VGDs or 20 shimmering nihilites, 10, shimmering steel bars and 10 sheets of shimmering steel which could make 10 VGDs.

Seems to me you're better off storing components, they take less space.
Better yet, store raw components.

20 Raw shimmering nihilites, 20 shimmering ore can make 30 VGDs but only take 2 slots. Your 'I don't have enougth space for components' argument does not hold water. Sorry. It takes less space to store raw components then it does to store finished products that don't sell.

If you are so worried about the over supply, do what nations do when they have too much supply. Destroy it.

[Koru]

When the makers are so few on your server there's really not really a lot of people to blame for the 'flooding' of the market. Trust me, the people who aren't flagged for the zones are a lot less likely to be flooding. Basically, if you're one of the people selling it and complaining there's too many going around try looking in the mirror and then at your fellow flagged folks if you want to pass blame around. If there were more people making them like on my server I could see your point.

[Delores Mulva]

Ok, let's go over this slowly.

Seems to me you're better off storing components, they take less space.

Yes, much less space. But guild components get stored on, get this, guild mules. You don't hand components around willy-nilly because that's how stuff gets embezzled - there's too many little things to keep track of. You keep central control of components, only releasing them when it's time to make more weapons for the guild traders. You can always check the inventory of a trader, since he's got it all on him in public, and reconcile his reported sales figures with what they should be given what you've handed out and what he has on him now. Plat is important to a modern guild - we're in a three-way rotation in Qvic, and making Qvic armour for guild members costs us nearly one million plat per month. You don't throw it away, you don't put sloppy controls on it, you manage it smartly.

Your 'I don't have enougth space for components' argument does not hold water.

Our mule accounts are full. We aren't willing to purchase new accounts just to store stuff, and putting materials on the mules of private accounts (something that the officers cannot access at will) destroys the ability of officers to check up on each other and ensure stuff isn't going missing. No member should be required to give up his account information so we can use his account for storage, so we make more weapons and throw them on the trader mules. So far I've been able to accomodate the expanding inventory by not replacing any of the items I sell for personal profit as they sell, but I'm down to 18 or so slots left and some of those items are pretty stinky. We could use more traders, but that does nothing for the oversupply issue but make it worse.

If you are so worried about the over supply, do what nations do when they have too much supply. Destroy it.

I'm not worried. I'm going to take plenty of money from other people upgrading, and laugh all the way to the guild bank. I'm on pace to give the guild bank 1.5 million plat this month, after costs. Nor do I have plans to destroy any of it, since it brings my guild cash and doesn't impact any of us since we use weapons much better than these. As explained above, the guild needs significant amounts of cash just to run normal operations, and this is the only source of cash in GoD for us.

You should be worried. You, the person that won't be upgrading her weaponry for months if not years after buying this, giving you nothing to aim for. You, the person that will see the same weaponry on every other BST competing for a group slot as you regardless of how much time they play. You, the person whose existing non-velium gemmed weapons are now worth squat. This hurts you. You don't see it now because you're happy to have an item that is much better than anything you ever expected to own, but you will.

When the makers are so few on your server there's really not really a lot of people to blame for the 'flooding' of the market.

If guilds were going out of their way to farm components, I'd blame the guilds. If individuals were farming the hell out of the components, I'd blame the individuals. If both guilds and individuals are merely selling what drops as they pursue other activities, and there's still a huge glut of items, I put the blame where it belongs: on the drop rate.

We do have a fair number of small vendors of these weapons on my server, by the way, but I don't bother counting them because the large sellers account for the vast majority of sales. Even if the little guys didn't exist, the problem would persist.

[furioso]

You can make and sell less weapons.

[Lothay]

Furioso, Delores Mulva, and Aneya - lets try to make our points without the snide comments, and the snippy overly-sarcastic tone on comments and remarks.

From this point forward, please make your case clearly without the jabs and digs. I have edited the thread to remove some of the more pointed commentary. Should this sort of pointed commentary continue, I'll go ahead and close the thread.

Discussion and disagreement are fine. But subtle (and not-so-subtle) digs are not.

Let's all play nice, shall we?

[Koru]

Actually this does not affect me that much. Ok, I can get a DPS weapon for my paladin that I will in most cases not use because I'm the MT and that low delay +max haste is not going to work very well in the places I hunt with the equipment I have. To me it's a DPS toy, it's nothing more than that.

Secondly, I have plenty of goals to reach without adding a weapon to it. Actually weapons are the hardest thing for someone like me to obtain, there's easily X3 times as easy for a player of my style to upgrade armor than weapons. Simply put there aren't a lot of 1 groupable good weapons that I have to aim for. I have the best dropable weapon that I can get and had it before I bought my Gemmed. There was already no real and viable upgrade in sight for me - and still isn't. Trust me, my kind has enough goals we haven't optained that this will not prove to be a problem for a very very very long time. Honest, even though my hps are probably less than half of that of someone fighting in those zones I really do not need to be protected against myself by those superior in raiding.

This is not new, it happens to some extent or another after every expansion and every time someone will say how much it cheapens the game and makes it too easy. Then the next expansion comes along and makes everything harder again. Of course an alternative solution would be to simply nerf the bejesus out of the weapons. There's no real reason why a person should be able to upgrade their items by walking to the bazaar and buying an item worth using on a main, items are to be fought for. Yes, I believe I will /feedback for that solution. That way the weapons can still enter the market as fast, they just won't be as good or worth nearly as much. It really would solve the problem quite well when you think about it and no one will be forced to refrain from flooding the market if they want to make a big profit because they won't be worth that amount of coin.