Omens of War

[Serenya]

My initial reaction to Gates (which I beta'd) was to tell my guildmates NOT to buy it if they wanted the new zones. Only buy it if they wanted something else out of it. In the end, everyone pretty much ended up with it -- I use the leadership and the tribute, my husband and a friend started a berserker, we all hunt in Natimbi, and Abysmal is good for tradeskilling. That's it though, so barely worth it. Right now, I'm not even tempted to apply to beta Gates 2.0, never mind buy it. My guild can't even progress in PoP, we're not getting past Natimbi in Gates, so based on the current description there is naught at all for us in Oow. At this point, I'm waiting for the EQ 2 beta to start.

I still enjoy EQ -- I'm about to get my epic, I'm up to shawl 6, I might make it to 62 soon, and several friends play. But, if those friends said 'let's try game x' I'd go. I'm getting burnt out, and the 'end game' keeps receeding (sp?) further and further from my grasp. It took over 3 years to hit 50, and another year to hit 60. I might not ever make 65, and now they are raising the cap to 70? /cry

[sumamael]

Here we go again. Always the naysayers before every expansion, but no one ever leaves, and when they do, they come back.

This is really beginning to sound like a broken record.

Yes, there are complaints, many of which are legitimate. I'm just curious why, if SOE is the big bad wolf it has been made out to be, why so many people keep playing.

You know, you can almost time the comments on this board about SOE.

Within 24 hours of any patch: Worst Patch Ever or They Broke Something *whine*

Within two days of any expansion being announced: WTF, there's more to be fixed! *whine*

Within a month of an expansion being released: Ooooh, look at the pretty loot!

The game is going to expand, it looks like every six months, give/take. Get used to it. Righteous indignation works once. After that, it's whining or hypocrisy. Take your pick.

You don't want it? Don't buy it.

Mad as hell and can't take it any more? Don't, and there's the door.


Phabos Aphsion
Drunken Paladin of Brell
Tarew Marr
Simply tired of the constant reoccurring complaints...

Yes yes but how about the fact that complaining makes us feel better?
Think of this messageboard as a tool for our therapy.

*giggles maniacally*

[Saleani]

Personally, I think that if the OOW expansion is based on the GoD expansion, it will be a dud. If you have not experienced the fun and joy of an extended CR past see invisible mobs (you have to get past some of them to get to the guy who can summon your corpses across zone lines), you aren't missing much. Think of the tunnel from the gulf of gunthak to dulak or nadox, but with mobs that hit for 600s and see invisible. A day in tipt reminds me of some bad PoHate/PoFear raids years ago where 6 hours of a 6:30 hour raid were spent doing CR after CR after CR. Or like in uqua, where you bump into a wall and get warped back to the zone in; in a zone where CoH does not work. I have not yet met the scripts that folks claim are broken.

If Gates is a struggle for guilds that let PoTime gear rot (because they have so much of it), what hope does our sub-elemental guild have? Many of the people who play knight classes in my guild did not buy Gates because there was nothing for them (they felt that warriors got too much in the big protests a few months back).

Our guild is losing more and more people to the crash bug which came out about the time of the DirectX9 patch. For example, one day, it took me an hour to get from the small bank in pok to the potranq stone, I crashed that much. Others just stopped logging in and the ones that prepaid months are only logging in after patches to see if its worth bothering. It will get to the point where we can't raid anything needing more than 2 clerics or 3 groups if it keeps up.

[Phabos]

Okay, I'm going to leave this discussion be after this post because I can't find what I am looking for using a simple search, and thanks to finals I don't have time to go in depth to find it. If anyone can find authenticated hard numbers, please feel free to post them.

My theory, however, is this. SOE, being a multinational subsidiary of a multinational corporation, isn't going to do anything that substantially reduces the bottom line. Investors don't like that. Lower profits leads to lower stock prices, which leads to less-than-pleased shareholders, executives, and on down the line until jobs start being turned over.

Thus, if SOE feels the player base is going to buy another expansion, the player base likely will. And before anyone says, "Not me," I don't mean YOU. I mean the silent player base of 400,000+ subscribers that doesn't frequent these boards, or any other boards, doesn't belong to a top guild that's disbanding, etc. In politics, Nixon called it the silent majority. My feeling is that EQ has one too.

What I'm looking for are revenue numbers. A recent prospectus, a quarterly report, etc. would, in my mind, answer the question. I may be wrong. Revenues may be dropping. If so, and if you know they are, post them, please. I'm sure someone here invests in the company. Until then, it's just a shouting match. I can't find them, so I'm going to quit shouting.

I do think, however, the economic theory seems sounds. IF SOE is losing money for factors not due to the recent state of the economy, and that drop can be traced to declines in EQ due to content and related issues (lag, bugs, etc.), someone will notice. And someone will change the way things are done. SOE, as per the EULA, has the right to change the content. Subscribers don't have to accept it.

That's my last take on this issue for a while.


Phabos Aphsion
Drunken Paladin of Brell
Tarew Marr

[kiztent]

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/fina...ny20040427.pdf

is Sony's last quarterly statement, but it doesn't break revenues down that well.

If you look at the following press releases:
http://sonyonline.com/corp/press_rel...don_ships.html (9/9/3 - ldon ships)

http://sonyonline.com/corp/press_rel...announced.html (12/17/3 - GoD announced)

http://sonyonline.com/corp/press_rel...GOD_ships.html (2/9/4 - GoD ships)

They all give the number of active subscribers as "over 430,000" - which means the game certainly isn't growing.

Dig some more at http://sonyonline.com/corp/press.jsp and you'll see the game was at "over 400,000" for luclin release and "over 430,000" on PoP release and has held steady since then.

I'd be curious to see what the numbers look like next time they throw them out.

The OoW announcement lists the number of concurrent connections to EQ (http://sonyonline.com/corp/press_rel...ouncement.html) which is the first announcement or shipping press release since Luclin that doesn't mention subscriber base.

[Iannyen]

Keep in mind also that subsidiaries of multinational corporations (and smaller companies too, but thats neither here nor there) maintain, in addition to fiscal accountability, a "schedule" so to speak. Profit/loss scenarios are examined well ahead of time.

I'm just guessing, but I'd bet that GoD was concieved, while possibly not in concept of content, but in concept of product release, a year before it was announced. SOE, like other companies, maintains an "expectation" of cash flow, both in and out. With all the inherent bugginess of the GoD events, and the fiasco that DX9 has proven to be, I'm betting that they have a pre-ordained (ie- the beancounters are holding them to a forecasted product release aka - income) date to hit for a product shipment, and the only thing that they have that they can submit as product is something that "should" have been part of previous content, since so many resources are devoted to fixing what the fubared with DX9.

Are they releasing expansions hoping to drive people away? Probably not. But the numbers people either don't know or dont' care. They see half a million units of product shipping, and selling (by projections), on a scheduled date. They don't care what it is, so long as something hits shelves.

Now, what they are going to learn the hard way is, that, with the near simultaneous release of WoW, and the impending EQ2 beta and release, that there will be far less desire for the fanbase to purchase the expansion.

As many people have stated, the content of the GoD and OoW are primarily geared for the upper tier player, which makes up 10% of the player base (if those numbers can be trusted). People that were fairly nonplussed with GoD (myself included) and wont' be purchasing OoW anywhere near release, will be their first wakeup call. Wakeup #2 is going to be when people stop paying for active accounts.

Will it be the end of EQ? Probable not. At least not for everyone. But I'd lay some hard earned plat that we'll see a server consolidation within the next year or so.

[Aerinha]

This is the first time I have been this reluctant to purchase an expansion. I suppose I will eventually get it because of all my friends who still play(they are the reason I am still here after all this time). I just hope this one is better than GoD was. I have used barely any of GoD's content. I think someone said they thought the quality of the expansions alternated..one bad, then one good....I have liked most, until GoD.

However...
A friend has managed to get me hooked enough on City of Heroes to buy that and try it out. And, despite its lack of any tradeskill that I can see, I am having fun again. I find that I am logging in to EQ mostly to chat and find specific friends and guildies to hunt with, maybe do an LDoN and then heading back to CoH. and losing track of time in game like I haven't in EQ in ages...

My husband and I won't be maintaining accounts in both long term though. So where we stay will depend on where we are having the most fun a couple months from now.

[Arakni Spellweaver]

Oh, I dunno. I tend to agree with Iannyen and Serenya. The gap was just too large for me to breach (3 years to 51), and the goals just kept getting further and further away from me. I started playing less and less, and when I was playing, it was just a high-priced chat room to talk to my friends. So, I didn't buy GoD, and soon after it came out, I quit completely. Now I'm on CoH, having fun again, and can say, yep, not going back. It's exactly like Grimina said - it's like applying for a new job - all anxiety and trepedation, until you get the new job and wonder what took you so long to quit the old one.

I think that's part of the reason why so many of us aren't playing anymore, but still frequent the boards. We still like one another, but this is the only place where we all still are.

[Iannyen]

I'm so burnt on EQ right now, and all its shenanegins, that I reinstalled SWG and activated my old account. And I'm having more fun there this time around than I did when I originally bought it.

Hmm, methinks I'm going to start a new poll. I have an interesting attrition theory building...

[Kieroth_whiteleaf]

What I'm seeing implied by the adds (and I realize that what is in the advertisements and what actually releases are two different things) is that there will be more lower-level content for average, normal players.

EQ has a tendency to alternate lower level and higher level content - Kunark was all levels, velious was high level (then) (40+), Luclin was all levels, PoP was high level (50+), LoY was 35+ and doesn't really count, LDoN was pretty much all levels (20+), GoD was high level (60+).

All the expansions except PoP that raised the level curve have been expansions that reasonably catered to a decent variety of skill levels.

Personally, I wasn't really looking forward to GoD, although I wanted a berserker enough to pay for it. Same for LoY and frogloks and bank space. PoP for me (at the time) was strictly for portal books, although now I'm getting high enough to at least use some of the content.

If OoW has good enough content at the mid levels to make it worth my time, I'll probably buy it soon after release. If it's not, I'll buy it when I finally hit 65 and want to be able to progress in levels. Or if it has compelling enough AAs, but so far I haven't seen an AA that critical yet outside of the initial ones, so I don't see it having any this time.

I actually think this expansion might be worth buying, since I've liked roughly every other expansion they've released - GoD wasn't that spectacular (being nice about it) but maybe the next one will be good. LDoN made me enjoy EQ again, maybe this one will help too.

Regardless, I don't think the sky is falling in.

SFG

[Maevenniia]

I am a little disappointed that OoW is seemingly going to build on GoD, since I am not even into GoD zones yet, other than Natimbi and Abysmal Sea, but I am not going to rant about it yet.

I might even buy it, for some of the other features (ex: the task system…might dust off some of my lowbie alts and have a go.)

I’m going to wait and see…still having oodles of fun progressing in Pop (omg I might actually get to do Aid Grimel!) so I’m not in any rush to cancel.

[Heartsong_Steelsoul]

The feeling I got when OOW was announced was kind of akin to feelings I got just before I stopped playing Magic in '99. "But we just HAD an expansion!" Granted, M:tG started doing expansions ever 3-4 months (don't recall which), IIRC, which is considerably more than SOE is doing.

*shrug* Getting tired. May finally make that decision to quit. Baring in mind that a lot of reason is also finally getting sick of some player attitudes. *sigh*

[KyrosKrane]

My personal impression, from what I heard at the Fan Faire and what I've managed to piece together, is that GoD and OoW were supposed to be one expansion. For whatever reason, it got split into two -- not sure if it's a desire for more revenue, a need for multiple expansions during the year, or just that some features were incomplete when GoD had to ship.

If you think about it, GoD really did seem to be a "mostly fluff" expansion in terms of character development. Some features like Tribute and Abysmal Sea are undoubtedly useful, but the meat of the expansion -- the new zones -- were universally declared unbalanced. Well, yeah, they're stupidly hard now ... but what about when you're level 70? With new spells and abilities to match the new level? I'd bet the encounters would have been well balanced in that case, or a lot closer to it than they are now, at any rate.

I have no factual basis for this at all, mind you. This is just my personal speculation.

[Lilosh]

Okay, I'm going to leave this discussion be after this post because I can't find what I am looking for using a simple search, and thanks to finals I don't have time to go in depth to find it. If anyone can find authenticated hard numbers, please feel free to post them.

Ok, linked from a similar thread on the Runes.

http://pw1.netcom.com/~sirbruce/Subscriptions.html

Decide it's legitimacy yourself.

Seems like population jumped up and up a few thousand around LDoN, and then dove down to pre-PoP levels.

(Edit: Wow, adding the link sure helps)
-Lilosh

[Drakh]

Well i have been playing EQ since its release (in the UK at least). Kunark expansion i looked forward to, same with velious and Luclin, LoY was the first expansion i was dubious about, PoP on the other hand was the first time i actually sat down and thought about if i should buy it or not

I enjoy the high end content of Luclin and Velious (and at the time i hadnt seen VT yet) and the fact that the level increase was going to be a big factor in wether or not i could play with my friends so i had to buy it.

LDoN was again another expansion i was dubious about buying - i played, at the time, with a group of friends who almost always XPed together and i asked them if they were going to buy ldon - they said yes so to continue xping with my friends i bought it too.

GoD was the first expansion i decided i was not going to buy until after its release - it wasnt until my guild stated GoD is a requirement of the guild that i was forced to purchase it.

This next expansion is to me yet another PoP expansion ...

The level increase will force me to buy it if i wish to continue enjoying the high end content as most top end guilds will most probably increase their recruitment requirements to the NEW max level.

Epic 2.0 is a sales gimic of the expansion - everyone loved Epics the first time round and IMHO epic quests and dynamic encounters are what expansions should be about more than just new xp zones.

The guild tribute system is just a slight mod on the existing tribute system - i seen bigger "Features" come out of patches than this.


As for the designers and artists having nothing to do? their are many many graphical bugs/improvements that currently exist that they could be working on....

• scaled wolf illusion is bugged as the head is covered with a mask, completely obscuring the eyes, when cast on someone with a hat graphic.
• Old world guards still use the old models and have no updated version for
• luclin released models
• X shaped trees
• Non- partical Fires
• static objects
• doors that open into walls
• NPC text that doesnt work properly (Lars McManus says "Time to Die Drak" ! )

The list is huge and grows with every expansion released...

Designers and developers are paid to fix old world bugs and improve gameplay - so why arent artists paid to improve and fix old world graphics to improve the games visiual aspects?


This is just my Opinion but i would rather see 30 well maintained and beautifully designed zones than 100 half finished/ abandoned/ ugly/ and forgotten zones. And once the level increase to 70 happens any expansion Pre Luclin will only hold appeal for the one or two gimics that makes it worth buying...

• Kunark = Ability to do Epics,
• Velious = Advancement beyond 50,
• Luclin = Access to portals, Nexus and Bazaar, and Beastlord class.
• PoP = Level 65 and PoKnowledge (recently opened to All)
• LDoN = Wayfarers Teleportation between camps.
• GoD = Abysmal Sea for Tradeskilling and beserker class