Macro

[Niellya]

If we interpret the EULA to mean to use "third party software" with EverQuest, then you would not be allowed to use Microsoft Windows at all,

Windows (or any other operating system would be second-party software. Drivers would also probably fall into that category; the actual driver part of it only. The "utilities" that come with programmable peripherals are not the drivers, the are there to provide added functionality.

or also whatever software you use to connect to the internet

You don't really use any software to "connect" to the internet, you just open up a connection with either your phone line or a cable line (or whatever). Once the connection is open you can use anything you want to access content on the Internet. Example: Back in the day when I had AOL (yes, I know. /shudder), I would launch it, let it use my modem to connect and then minimize it and leave it there while I used a normal browser window to browse the web.

I can't even use the MICROSOFT WINDOWS mouse settings to change my trackball to left-handed

Does it let you change it for Windows and then EQ defaults it back or are you saying it's greyed out and not selectable? Some of the "utility" software that comes with mice/trackballs/etc disable the native control to change it, which would grey out the option so that you can only use their controls to change it.

[Silound]

It's a hugefuzzy area that is untested in court. You can, depending on how good of an argument you can make, swing a court either way on this. Such an issue happened with Microsoft over EQ taking complete control of the system (Violated DirectX EULA somehow) and resulted in EQ being able to run in windowed mode. Personally, I'd shut up about what you are/are not doing and go on with your lives. There is no way Sony can accuse you of anything untowards unless you are A) AFK or B) doing something downright suspicious (like making direct beelines for ground spawns and such.

[Cantatus]

not just getting there from clicking your hands off

Rofl

I can't even use the MICROSOFT WINDOWS mouse settings to change my trackball to left-handed (i.e. right button = main click, left button = special click). EQ has a LOT of things disabled.

Check under your mouse settings in game. There is an option to make your mouse left-handed. I'd do the same if I could just find a decently priced left-handed desk.

[Mivio]

Info

Okay, i have heard fromt he folks at SoE, and thought i would share it with you.

This is a quote from the email.

This is GM-Admin Drognir. Use of a macro program is not allowed in
Everquest, even if you are watching it. The following is the rule that
applies from the EULA located at
http://eqlive.station.sony.com/suppo...ce/cs_EULA.jsp .

9. You may not use any third party software to modify the Software to
change
Game play. You may not create, facilitate, host, link to or provide any
other means through which the Game may be played by others, such as
through
server emulators. You may not take any action which imposes an
unreasonable
or disproportionately large load on our infrastructure. You may not
buy,
sell or auction (or host or facilitate the ability to allow others to
buy,
sell or auction) any Game characters, items, coin or copyrighted
material.

A macro program is third party software that changes game play. Use of
a
macro such as this can lead to disciplinary actions being taken on your
account. There however is a new tradeskill system in the works that is
described at
http://eqlive.station.sony.com/updat...ng_updates.jsp
that should help a lot with combines of items.

I do wish you well with your tradeskills and in your future Everquest
adventures.

[Silound]

Still leads to the same old thing of "how will they know I'm macroing if I'm watching and able to stop/respond to tells?" In the end, they are decreed illegal, although enforcing that is somewhat tenuous at best.

[Renjah]

Well if they REALLY want to catch you they can. They can review logs and lets say see you left click exactly once every 1.5 seconds for an hour straight. They can be fairly certain its a macro, however like you said if you are at keys how can the prove it. The only way is to somehow interrupt the macro (by some random event) and hope you dont stop the macro until it runs another cycle or two.

When it comes down to it SoE is providing a service if they choose to they can boot whomever they please.

[eqNichola]

Last time I looked (and things may have checked since then), *entertainment* software was exempted from some provisions of the various disability discrimination acts. For example, some people have disabilities that affect their hand-eye coordination. Everyday software must make provision for all levels of hand-eye coordination. But it is legal to make a *game* that is harder for people with worse hand-eye coordination. After all, that's often kinda the point

So if this is still the case, then EQ is allowed to disallow the use of helper programs, even for users with disabilities.

[Furyrpied]

ummmm....

You may not buy, sell or auction (or host or facilitate the ability to allow others to buy, sell or auction) any Game characters, items, coin or copyrighted material.

Then why do they let Yantis still live? heh...

Sorry.. still /mourn eqdruids

[splunge]

Well there is another side of the EULA and macroing that isnt mentioned anywhere...

If you use a macro progam to do combines while youre away, GMs, other honest players and many tradeskillers wouldnt be too happy with you.

If you use a macro program to do stupid repetative combines (Celestial essence maybe) to save your carpal-tunnel-stricken hands while you are AT the keyboard watching it... I, and probably any sane player and tradeskiller wouldnt mind at all.

GMs, imho, probably wouldnt say too much about it either for one reason...

Sony wants your $13 a month.

Banned accounts make no money.

[Dunthor Warsmith]

Banned accounts make no money, and ruined economies => ruined fun for some people => cancelled accounts. So its, as always, a question of balance. Ban juuust enough to keep things reasonable for the economically-minded folk, but no more, so you get the most subscriptions you can, heh.

I figure for small scale macroing, you'd probably just get warnings and/or suspensions, rather than immediate hits with the ban stick. Not something I'd be even remotely willing to risk, but it seems the more likely route for SOE to follow.

[Malthorn]

/Devilsadvocate on

So if I trained my pet monkey to do repetitive combines there would be no problems. Right?

How about if I built a robotic arm attached it to a seperate computer and programed it to manipulate the key board and mouse. Let's say I program the arm to combine coldain tempers as fast as EQ will let me make them. No problems right?

/Devilsadvocate off

How about if I use the tools that EQ provides and forage 3 time in a row just by pressing 2 buttons every 5 minutes or so. Oops I already do this while playing on the other computer, watching TV, reading, ect. It's fun and profitable to play America's Army and forage or fish at the same time.

[Dunthor Warsmith]

Originally posted by Malthorn
/Devilsadvocate on

So if I trained my pet monkey to do repetitive combines there would be no problems. Right?

I think technically that would be a violation, since by the EULA only *you* are allowed to access the account, not your pets, tools, sentient robots, alien parasites, or clones. From the EULA:

You may not transfer or share your Account with anyone, except that if you are a parent or guardian, you may permit one child to use the Account instead of you (in which case you may not use that Account).

Although, since they didn't define "you" or "anyone", that actually does leave open some potential objects that might legally be outside the realm of "anyone", or other things which could be considered "you". Maybe that trained chimp idea would work ...

-----

The robotic arm bit would be a curious project ... I've occasionally dabbled with the idea of trying to create a Mindstorms-based arm with similar purpose for running long term simple repetative test in other games ... if someone's actually built such a creation, would be neat to see what they use it for

[Lothay]

Originally posted by Dunthor Warsmith
The robotic arm bit would be a curious project ...

Back in the day some fellow built himself a little device using Lego to press the buttons on his keyboard to do fishing.

All it did was cycle back and forth and back and forth between 2 buttons. It was cute.

[Rewde]

I set up a metronome with an S curve attached to hit my mapped key, one hit foraged, second hit autoinventoried, so I could do that while cleaning the house and doing dishes. It's not a 3rd party program. Is that Bad?

[Tudani]

I think using another computer to program a mechanical arm might be cosidered 3rd party software (since programming the arm is software based), but if it was purely a mechanical device I don't see where it would be a violation of the EULA. Would be great for foraging and fishing at the least I think.