Macro

[Mivio]

Hello.

2 thoughts for this evening.

I saw the post ont he first page about the new tradeskill add that seems to be coming.. And.. darnit, I make my living making lesser combine's. CVT's, are my bread and butter right now..

Now, to make me seem really wierd. Is there any type of macro program that SoE deams legal to use. Yes i know there are macro programs out there, and i know where they are, But does SoE allow them to be used..?

[Maevenniia]

nope, SOE won't let you use any macro programs.

[Renjah]

This is a somewhat "fuzzy" topic. I think they allow macros IF you are at the keyboard.

Example: Several rangers use a gravis pad to perform auto archery. This is technically a macro, yet it isnt considered against the EULA since it is used while at keys. I wouldnt have any moral issues with making say cellestial essence with a macro (Assuming I learned how to do it!) IF I only used it while at keys. If anything this is saving carpul tunnel and wear and tear on my equipment.

HOWEVER Some people feel its 100% against the EULA to even use a gravi spad to use archery.

If I were you I would email a GM (using the feature on everquest.com) and explain in DETAIL what you plan to do and make sure to say WHILE AT THE KEYBOARD. Let then decide and keep the email just in case.

This has been discussed many times and I dont think I've ever seen a reply straight from SoE.

[Mivio]

I did email a gm, and asked that very question.

Can i use a macro program to make CE's if i am at the keyboard.

Still Waiting on a reply

[Tinile]

It's not a fuzzy issue, it's clear black and white. The EULA states you cannot use ANY 3rd party programs.... EVER. It does not matter if you are sitting there watching it, that only means it's harder for the GMs to catch you at it. Just because you don't get caught shoplifting from a store, doesn't mean it's ok. This is the same logic.

[Mivio]

9. You may not use any third party software to modify the Software to change Game play. You may not create, facilitate, host, link to or provide any other means through which the Game may be played by others, such as through server emulators. You may not take any action which imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on our infrastructure. You may not buy, sell or auction (or host or facilitate the ability to allow others to buy, sell or auction) any Game characters, items, coin or copyrighted material.

I copyed that from the Everquest site, was the only refrance i found to 3rd party soft ware.

It has been a very long time sence I have read the page before I hit the accept button, but will remeber to do so tonight. I have seen nothing that says you can use a macro program to make things easy.

If I am wrong, please show me where to find the information I am looking for.

[Renjah]

Well I have been told in the past from GMs a Gravis pad for archery is acceptable WHILE at keys. Its a health issue of being able to avoid repetitive typing. You may say big deal but a gravis pad can be programmed to do repetitive tasks. Macro programs can do the same to avoid repetitive things while at keys. If I needed to make thousands of CEs I would not be morally troubled to use a macro program to do it while I was at keys. Why should I hurt my wrists when there is an alternative method? Yeah SoE may hate it but they'd also hate me having to have surgery because of their game.

I DO however have issues with people starting a macro and leaving. To me I would have no problem with macro use if it saves someone wrist pain.

[Ngreth Thergn]

Nothin is "legal"

there is a counter grey area though, where if you are legally handicaped, they are "sorta" required to let you use helper programs... but you gotta be already handicapped... not just getting there from clicking your hands off. That is sorta grey, and has not yet met a legal challenge.

SO no there is no program that SOE considers valid or "legal"

[vovinit]

Just go out and beat you right hand with a sledge mallet. Then you can slip under the handicap rule

[ColdHeart]

Any "software" is illegal. Is the joypad with autofire considered software or hardware? Programming a joypad to hit a sequence of buttons would come under software, note the word "programming". But a joypad/stick/thing which has a built in autofire button... looks a little grey to me.

[Nhin Impious]

there is a counter grey area though, where if you are legally handicaped, they are "sorta" required to let you use helper programs... but you gotta be already handicapped... not just getting there from clicking your hands off.

Just to mention, carpal tunnel syndrome, and other such repetitive wrist injuries, are not always considered a disability under the Americans With Disabilities Act (what I think was being referred to as "legally handicapped" above). It would only be so if someone were to have arm/wrist injuries so bad that they were unable to perform some of the actions of taking care of themselves or go about their lives, not just be unable to type or click. (Williams v. Toyota Manufacturing Co, Supreme Court case)

If the disabled community (if I can use such a word) would like to see EverQuest become truly accessible in all the ways it can be, the best bet would be for someone who has a disability to get a job with them and ask for the accommodations they needed to do their job. Then maybe they'd relax their wording to allow those who use software to, say, read parts of the incoming text to them, and exclude those who run software while not at the keyboard for profit.

Nhinx Aphsion
who kinda sees Sony's point...but then again, no

(edited to fix a typo)

[Niellya]

But a joypad/stick/thing which has a built in autofire button... looks a little grey to me.

I'm pretty sure the autofire buttons don't work on joysticks/gamepads unless you install the drivers and/or associated software. Which brings it back to the 3rd party software rule.

[Chenier]

Originally posted by vovinit
Just go out and beat you right hand with a sledge mallet. Then you can slip under the handicap rule

This really shouldn't be funny. I'm trying really hard not to laugh.

[Razj]

Originally posted by Niellya
I'm pretty sure the autofire buttons don't work on joysticks/gamepads unless you install the drivers and/or associated software. Which brings it back to the 3rd party software rule.

...and so does my optical mouse. I think people may be missing the important clause in EULA item #9 - you can't use 3rd party software (little "s") to alter the Software (big "S" = Everquest)...drivers and such do not alter big S. I don't think that, even if they wanted to, SOE could make a case against any hardware drivers.

- R

[Nhin Impious]

I'm pretty sure the autofire buttons don't work on joysticks/gamepads unless you install the drivers and/or associated software.

I can't even use the MICROSOFT WINDOWS mouse settings to change my trackball to left-handed (i.e. right button = main click, left button = special click). EQ has a LOT of things disabled.

However, I'd have to say that installing the software that comes with your hardware, which is included to make your hardware run, is not "using third party software to modify your {EverQuest} software." It is using software to make your computer and its user interface items (monitor, KB, pointing device) work so that you can run the EverQuest software and use it for its intended purpose.

If we interpret the EULA to mean to use "third party software" with EverQuest, then you would not be allowed to use Microsoft Windows at all, or also whatever software you use to connect to the internet. Considering that they disavow any responsibility for YOUR internet connection charges, they're surely allowing that your operating system and internet software aren't theirs. So, it would really come down to either the interpretation of the EULA, or if someone were to lose their account for using "third-party" software and sue, the interpretation of the court.

This {joking suggestion to self-inflict injury to make yourself disabled} really shouldn't be funny.

For those who don't have a choice, it isn't.

Nhinx Aphsion