Oh come on. How much is neccesary?

[Lilosh]

I'm not trying to "SOE bash", or anything. I just have something of a problem with their proposed "Update" for November.
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You know, I don't normally subscribe to the theory that they are "Dumming Down the Game".

I mean yeah, they've done a lot of things to make the game easier for new characters. In fact, I love the faster med/scribe times for new characters

But they're going to far.


I direct you to http://eqlive.station.sony.com/updat...ng_updates.jsp

A "target Indicator", similar to EQOA? Should be interesting.

Font changes? This is just extraneous, but I can see where some people insist on adding silly frills.

REMOVING THE NEED TO CON? Oh, come now. This is just silly. Why not put big red TARGETS on the mobs I should be fighting. Oh, and let's just rename the mobs to "Easy Kill" and "Level 30 mob".

Tell Windows? Oh, I can see this now. A chanter is trying to mez 4 mobs that are kicking the tail off of the warrior who's tanking our raid, some newbie sends a tell begging for buffs, and wipes my raid. This will be FANTASTIC.

Giving newbies a bag so they can "learn how storage containers work earlier rather than later"? Give me a break. Please?

And the absolute WORST... The one I can not possibly FATHOM, is

So we plan to have all characters start with a 200 skill in Sense Heading. This will allow new players to navigate more easily, and will reduce a bit of tedium over the course of gameplay.

Oh come on!!? How hard was it to get 200 sense heading? What's next? Raising Fishing is too hard. 200 please. Smithing is tough, and tedious. 250 please. In fact, 1hs is way too slow. Lets start with 210.
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This is just assanine. I mean, they make vague reference to bug fixing. And they add two new LDON raids, for the elemental guild set.

But this just seems like a fluff patch, with zero content except for making things pretty.

But then, Maybe I'm just being cynical.


-Lilosh

[dahna]

So the /consider command will only show the rez time on corpse?

[Lilosh]

Originally posted by dahna
So the /consider command will only show the rez time on corpse?

And as such, will only be useful to rangers at that point.


-Lilosh

[cattywumpus]

Most of these changes are available now on the test server. Try them out if you haven't already. They are not as bad as they seem.

[Draggar]

Re: Oh come on. How much is neccesary?

Originally posted by Lilosh

Oh come on!!? How hard was it to get 200 sense heading? What's next? Raising Fishing is too hard. 200 please. Smithing is tough, and tedious. 250 please. In fact, 1hs is way too slow. Lets start with 210.

I agree. I'm (kinda) proud of my 200 sence heading. I clicked and clicked on that button for hours every time I played just to get it to where it is now.

BUT

All I have to do now is start some noob and I get it for free?

BAH!

I don't like it. Why not start Noobs off with a 100 skill in all TSs then..


Looks like the tell window is also going to be an option, where you can turn it off and on.

[KyrosKrane]

The 200 sense heading change has been fairly contentous on a number of message boards I read. I've seen both pros and cons expressed, and both sides have some merit. From a role-playing angle, it makes sense to hit that button over and over -- you learn how to tell which way is north by trying again and again. From a game-play perspective, it's boring and irritating. Getting rid of it is thus a matter of convenience.

Personally, I'd rather have seen it changed to be like meditate, but without level limits -- it always works, and you always have a chance of getting a skillup in it when you turn or move. You could quite reasonably have it maxed at 200 before you even hit level 10. However, I can see how it would be much easier and less time-intensive for them to simply reset everyone's SH skill to 200, rather than code in a whole new system for the automatic skillups.

The tell windows feature could be quite handy if you have a bazaar trader, for example. I also wished for this feature just yesterday when I was trying to work a four-way deal, plus handle some smithing at the same time. With the tell windows, you can handle multiple conversations at once and not lose track of who said what. Since the feature can be disabled (and I suspect it will be disabled by default for existing accounts, but that's just a guess), I don't see a problem with it. Could be interesting.

I'm glad to see them simplifying the life of a newbie. EQ has a pretty high learning curve, especially for the first-time gamer. Anything that reduces the unnecessary toil (emphasis on unnecessary) and increases the initial fun factor of EQ is a good thing in my book. Granted, I'm a tad irritated I didn't get those benefits when I was a youngling ... but if we make everyone use the tools of their forefathers, we wouldn't even have the wheel, let alone a horse and buggy, and never mind an automobile!

[kiztent]

Most people already bind sense heading to a movement key, so it's not a huge deal to make it 200 anyway, it's not like they're eliminating a lot of tedious button pressing. And maps trivialized sense heading well before this change.

[casala]

http://forum.magecompendium.com/towe...r=asc&start=75

Halfway down on page 4, Absor responds...

To quote (slightly out of context, but read the full post to make sense of it all):

"That was the first thing I did with it, tried to make art.

Those of you saying that this makes being a new player easier are, well, jaded. There is no valuable play experience to be gained by being frustrated. All this does is reduces the frustration for new players. We're not going to be leading them around to tell them what to kill or where to fight (that's what you folks are for). But if you think showing folks where their guild masters are or where they can buy spells is making the game easier, then you might want to try playing without your spell presets, hotbuttons and macros. After all, a real man wouldn't need such crutches…"

Made Absor's quote more family friendly. - Cantatus

[Nhin Impious]

then you might want to try playing without your spell presets, hotbuttons and macros.

Speaking as someone who has typed /corpse about 20 times rather than click around to make a social....

And someone insane enough to type "/g CH on %T in # sec" by hand...every single time...

It ain't so bad.

Nhinx "/g %T x3 on me. DA. Back in 18." Aphsion

[Maevenniia]

I tend to agree with Whizbang (who has posted on other boards on this topic, if not this one):

How many times are they going to solve the SAME problem ?

Newbies have the following tools already, to help them find things:

- compass
LoY map free to everyone with or without the expansion in newbie zones
- new “Find NPC” feature

And now 200 Sense Heading skill.

So what solution will they come up next to solve this pressing problem? NPCs who hold newbies by the hand and take them from place to place?

Oh wait – Guktan Frogloks already got that, they get led around by the nose from quest NPC to quest NPC (I’ve made a froggie so I know.) And it was well done, actually, allowing a newb to learn about game basics, acquire a few pieces of equipment and even a bit of cash, yet still immersive….this is what they should do for all newbie zones instead of SH 200….but it would be more labour intensive than the latter, now wouldn’t it?

Don’t take the easy road, SOE (ie: SH to 200), instead, do the same thing you did for Gukta, make the newb quests as instructional and immersive as those, with guides to show newbs around…and if you want them to only help newbs, make it so they don’t respond to levels 11+ or something.

And after you have done that - leave it ALONE. Stop using resources to solve the same ‘problem’ over and over and over again, move on to the next problem – like the severe lack of tradeskill functions for those poor enchanters, c’mon, they need some tradeskill luvin'

[Tweedledea]

Target

I kind of like the idea of the target thing. In a crush of, say, identical zone-themed skeletons, hitting /assist doesn't help a melee much unless you're near enough to hit it. Let's say the MT is a dorf. And it's a big raid. And there are 10 skels. And they've scattered around to hit people, get mesed, or whatever.

I'd like to have SOME visible indication of where my target is

But yeah, the rest of that stuff seems a little 'nanny-state'.

[Phabos]

Please don't construe these as personal attacks, but I am going to take issue with a lot of the stuff being said in this thread...

Absor has an excellent point. Notice the time spent in game by those who are doing the majority of the complaining. I've been playing this game just over two years. A lot of you have been at it longer. Think back to that first time you clicked "Accept" on the EULA and created your very first character. Some people, me included, had real life friends to use as guides, while others were thrown out by themselves. Even those of us who did have some guidance, though, at one time found ourselves alone with little or no idea of what we should be doing. Who can honestly say he or she has never been lost, even in a newbie or mid-level zone?

How many people NEVER had trouble when they first began? It's not that easy to figure out where to go and what to do the first few times you play. The compass cues off sense heading. Thus, it is worthless at lower levels without spamming the sense heading hotkey to get it to stop spinning for a brief instant when it actually gives a reading with a successful use of the skill.

But the the thing that gets me the most is the sheer arrogance of the complainers. The attitude of "I had to do it this way so everyone else should to" is ludicrous. It reeks of jealousy. Why shouldn't someone who has just paid a fairly substantial sum of money for a game not have access to a few features that help them get started? Their dollar is just as valuable and gives them just as much right to a pleasent game experience as mine does. SOE is *gasp* a FOR PROFIT corporation. That's right, they exist to make money. When a developer has an idea that might keep a new subscriber from shutting off the game, canceling a subscription and then telling his or her friends how hard it is, that idea SHOULD be put in the game. Why should I be upset that someone else gets something? It doesn't hurt me in the slightest that a new character starts with 200 Sense Heading. It doesn't hurt me that a new character gets a bag. The "Find" feature? I've used it numerous times since it was put in. I like it.

Some of the other new features? The target indicator? Looks useful to all. Maybe it will keep some of us (including several people who post to this board) from rooting/snaring/dotting/nuking/etc. ourselves. The /con feature? Ever found that you are, for whatever reason, unable to right-click a mob you have targeted and then must scroll through pages of keys to find the appropriate one? Maybe I'm alone.

In short, what is wrong with making the game easier at low levels? I've seen the arguments, or to be more precise, the rantings and ramblings, and I don't buy them. They are more on par with a five year old whining "Mommy, it's not fair!" than intelligent debate. Someone prove to me that a character who begins after this patch will necessarily, automatically, and irrevocably be a lesser player than I, or will cause my raid/group to wipe if I am with them, or will take away from my future gameplay experience in any way, and I will listen and debate. Otherwise, let the developers do their jobs and make this game a bit more user-friendly.



Phabos Aphsion
Drunken Paladin of Brell
Tarew Marr

[kiztent]

Originally posted by Phabos
The /con feature? Ever found that you are, for whatever reason, unable to right-click a mob you have targeted and then must scroll through pages of keys to find the appropriate one? Maybe I'm alone.

Hitting 'c' on your keyboard will /consider your target, if you weren't speaking metaphorically.

Either way, I find it rather amusing that people think this game is 'hard' and people should 'suffer like they did.' Especially being posted on the message boards for one of the biggest spoiler sites in game. Ok, show of hands, who has actually read the recipie books for what they used to skill up on.

Um, hm, I see then.

I don't see anyone who is a regular contributor to these boards having a leg to stand on for complaining about how the game is made too easy. It's not like it's rocket science in the first place, even if it was being made too easy.

[Eumerin]

Originally posted by Phabos
Absor has an excellent point. Notice the time spent in game by those who are doing the majority of the complaining. I've been playing this game just over two years. A lot of you have been at it longer. Think back to that first time you clicked "Accept" on the EULA and created your very first character. Some people, me included, had real life friends to use as guides, while others were thrown out by themselves. Even those of us who did have some guidance, though, at one time found ourselves alone with little or no idea of what we should be doing. Who can honestly say he or she has never been lost, even in a newbie or mid-level zone?

How many people NEVER had trouble when they first began? It's not that easy to figure out where to go and what to do the first few times you play. The compass cues off sense heading. Thus, it is worthless at lower levels without spamming the sense heading hotkey to get it to stop spinning for a brief instant when it actually gives a reading with a successful use of the skill.

No, I can't say that I did have problems when I first started back on 3/19/1999. And there's a very simple reason for that.

Tutorial.

If SoE REALLY wanted to help the real newbies, they'd put the tutorial back on the game discs. The tutorial is, flat out, the best tool for introducing new players to the game. Sure, you can add a bunch of tools (I WANT MY WHO BUTTON BACK!!!!!) and screw around with the skills (we don't NEED a compass - learn how to use /loc. You'll need to do it anyway, and there's no character skill that can be autoraised to 200 to make it easy for you.), but those don't actually tell you how to play the game - i.e. how to equip your gear, how to use the bank, how to sell stuff, how to fight, mem spells, cast spells, loot bodies, etc...

[Serenya]

The biggest thing to remember, is that the day new players stop subscribing to EQ past the free month is the day EQ dies. The 'average' player subscribes for 2 years, which suggests there are an awful lot who don't make it past one month. EQ has several competitors out or about to be out, most of which are prettier and easier to start playing. As a result, SOE NEEDS to add features that make it easier to get going so that new players don't get so frustrated they quit the first day. Remember, most of us started playing EQ when there were still other lowbies in the starting cities and newbie gardens. We had people to group with, and people to ask questions of. Now, well, a new player could find themselves soloing to 20 without ever meeting anyone their level. At least if that's relatively easy to do they might last that long.

I'm one of those who took pride in keeping sense heading maxed on all my characters, and who could get anywhere in a zone so long as I had a loc (and I had to have that loc, landmarks rarely help me in a computer game). But I love the maps, they make things so much easier then spamming loc. And a new character starting at 200 sense heading only helps them, it doesn't hurt me.