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  • Is it me, or did Sony really mess up again?

    This almost fits in Rants and Raves, but, I'm going to post it here as I feel it's generally something that needs to be discussed, it's just such a hot topic that I'm expecting it to be a rant:

    Sony really missed a bet, again, with tradeskillers. Here's the situation:

    Joe the Warior Barbarian goes hunting with his ND ubah sword and kills uber_critter_01 and get's an augmentation drop... which is ND. Now, Joe has never seen a jewelers tool, nor a smithy hammer, a potters cleaning knife or any of the implementia of any of the tradeskilling crafts... but, as he surveys his ubah equipment, he discovers that his sword would benefit greatly from the augmentation. He pulls out the sword, the augmentation, wips out a handy forge (well, augmentation puch), deftly crafts a mount in the pommel for the gem setting (this augmentation happens to be a gem), pulls out a handy 3 pronged mound for his round gem augmentation and with amazing skill emplaces the gem in the hilt! Then pulls out a jewelers croup to inspect his work, only to realize he doesn't know what one is!

    Wait... something is wrong with this picture, and I know what that smely something is. With LDoN, Sony had the opportunity to augment the respect and ability of tradeskillers by having Augmentations be a tradeskill mounted item... the tradeskill needed would depend either on the Augment in question, or the item that it was to be set in.

    Instead, we have what I suspect will be a no fail combine (which implies MASSIVE skill or a trivial process... and if it's trivial, there should be limited reward at best since what is easy rarely has high impact) that can be done by anyone... now, a key question here is "why?" Why is it a no fail combine that anyone can do without having to invest time in the skills that it would make the most sense to use in mounting an Augmentation?

    ND. Look no further than to augmenting a UD weapon. ND was put on Norrath for a number of reasons, but, it mostly caters to those who like hack and slash and could care less about the rest of the game. However, with Augmentation, there is the risk that non-ND weapons and armor will outstrip the ND droppd weapons and armor. For me, I ask where is the harm in this? There SHOULD be a downside to ND weapons and armor... the first one being that you can't twink your 3rd alt with it, but, what's wrong with also saying it can't be maintained (speaking to EQII) and can't be upgraded (speaking to the impending Augmentation changes)?

    Don't get me started on EQII by the way... Sony is catering to the Hack and Slashers in EQII by making tradeskills an arcade game there, they are beta testing with the Legends players (whom I suspect are predominately all hack and slasher 'uber' players rather than rabid tradeskillers) and thus their point of view as to what the mass of EQ players wants is skewed by the point of view of the Legends players... and we get things like Augmentation being a skill-less enterprise... just like armor dying requires no skill... and why? Given that we have tradeskills in the game, why aren't we using them?

    Scenario:

    Joe the Barbarian Warrior goes on a hunt and kills a ubah_mob_01 and gets a jewel that is an augmentation... which would do his boots quite proud given the stats. Try as he might, he can't get the augmentation to stick to the boots with bats blood and a little spit. He finally gives up and sees his friend the enchanter who dabbles in tailoring and jewelry making. She looks at the boots and the Augmentation gem and deduces that she can set the gem nicely in a point at the side of the boot with little alteration of the boots leather and modification of a gem setting. She does the work, charges Joe for the cost of her supplies used in mounting the Augmentation, since Joe is a long time hunting partner, she's willing to give him a break, and they both go on their way. Joe has better boots, and his Enchanter friend feels that all the time spent on those tradeskills was worth it after all.

    Oh, well... another clear miss by Sony... unless, of course, we can raise enough of a hew and cry to tell them that we'd rather see Augmentatoin be a tradeskill based activity? Maybe, it's not too late to get the word across? Likely it is, but, maybe it's not and it can't hurt to try.

    GnarliAnna

  • #2
    If you're expecting it to be a rant, it'll get moved to Primal Scream anyway. It's not like no one discusses things in there.

    And I think you're overreacting to how augmentation is implemented, to be honest.
    Somnabulist Meisekimu
    70 days of Coercive noctambulism (and 364 rude awakenings).

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    • #3
      Can you elaborate on how I'm overreacting? I might be, and that would be ok, but, with only an opinion and no reasoning behind the statement, I can neither agree with you nor rebutt your comment.

      For my part, it's most natural for a sword to be augmented by a swordsmith or a jeweler (and possibly a tailor in the case of the hilt wraps or the scabbard)... a piece of jewelry by a jeweler... etc. I don't see how asking that those classes be required to participate in the augmentation process is overreacting... in fact, from here it looks to me like Sony overreacted by choosing an unnatural path for handling augmentation, and the only reason I can come up with for choosing that path is to support those who could care less about tradeskills. Given the health of these boards, I don't think the tradeskill community is a trivial portion of EQ and thus should not be shunted in this way (not that we haven't suffered being ignored before).

      As for it being a rant or getting moved, I stated that up front because I feel strongly enough about this that it might come across as a rant...

      GnarliAnna

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      • #4
        That is the general idea yes, because it's a personal feeling only and not intended for agreeing or rebuttal. Only the beta people have really tried the bells and whistles of LDoN--let it come out for a month or two for everyone *else* before hitting the "could have would have should have" department, IMO.
        Somnabulist Meisekimu
        70 days of Coercive noctambulism (and 364 rude awakenings).

        Comment


        • #5
          When I first saw that augmentations were to be a skill-less combine, I felt just like you, Gnarl. I even thought about posting negatively about it. Being lazy, I didn't (post) which gave me some time to think about another side of the die.

          Lvl 65 Joe WarBarb is hunting in LDoN and gets and augmentation drop which he actually has a useful slot for. Joe tries to combine his items and gets the messages "Your attempt to....has failed". Well 'ol Joe thinks, "this really stinks" and comes here to EQTraders to learn the basics of tradeskilling. He then runs to the island in TS and camps SS; interfereing with those who do tradeskills as a way of life.

          Another scenario would be Joe spending his limitless funds on supplies found in the bazaar. This would be helpful to noobs but, still interfere with 'serious' tradeskillers.

          Just my to scents. (that one is for you, Lilosh)

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          • #6
            The storyline of LDoN says that Morden Rasp was examining a strange green stone, and while he was scraping it with his dagger, it Magically Merged with his dagger.

            It's not neccessarily supposed to be Intricate work, involving skill and precision. (I almost wish it were, but I digress).


            These are more along the line of magic magentic superglue. When Item A gets close enough to Augmentation C....

            -Lilosh
            Venerable Noishpa Taltos , Planar Druid, Educated Halfling, and GM Baker.
            President and Founder of the Loudmouthed Sarcastic Halflings Society
            Also, Smalltim

            So take the fact of having a dirty mind as proof that you are world-savvy; it's not a flaw, it's an asset, if nothing else, it's a defense - Sanna

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            • #7
              Actually, Joe has the choice of taking up tradeskilling (and if the Augments are based on several different skills, he might give up after the first one) or hiring a Tradeskiller to do it. There are enough folks out there shouting "wtp 250 smith for combine" that I think there would be quite a few shoulting "wtp master jeweler for augment".

              That said, we already have ubahs who decided to take their limitless cashroll and 'buy' tradeskills. The trashing of the market is in large part due to them. How would this reallly be different than what we already have?

              Finally, part of this discussion (and though it's part rant, I did intend it to hear differing opinions and possibly to get folks to post how they feel in hopes that Sony Devs do read these boards) was in response to the fact that I don't see what I see as the majority of the EQ community reflected in the updates we are seeing... well, the updates are good, they are very close to the mark, but, in ways (like how Augments work) they really missed the mark and I think it's at least in part for missing that silent majority... then again, maybe I'm misreading what I'm seeing out there as that silent majority.

              Either way, if we don't see these kinds of things and speak up as soon as we see them (good or ill) the devs have no way of knowing if they DID hit the mark, or just get an "A" for effort and "D" for execution (which is where I think they are for Augment).

              As my wife has noted several times: how many of the surveys that they've taken actually had the right response for you? On almost all of them, I would've preferred a write in because I saw what they were getting at, but, my feelings fell in between all of the possible replies OR what I wanted was a kluge between more than one of the possible replies... by simply choosing A through D I was unable to reply that "B would suffice, but, B with C would be the best for me".... I feel that the "miss" of the Augmentation ability, was a failure of this communication. They came up with something nifty and new and didn't know how the community would feel about it.

              GnarliAnna

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              • #8
                This really isn't that big of a deal - when the whole idea initially came out, quite a few folks like yourself thought that this would be a great coupe for us tradeskillers.

                But let's face it, while it would be really nice for us to have something that we could wring a few plat out of folks for, think about all of the issues to deal with -

                1) If it required a real tradeskill then that means the combine could fail - if these gems aren't as common as dirt, then think of all of the unhappy customers you're going to have when the RNG turns someone's super rare gem into a "You lack the skills..." message.

                2) This would totally hose the market for raw materials again as folks dive into tradeskills to hop on the gravey train of folks charging X plat to augment gear.

                3) This would also result in tons of new rants by folks who had been scammed by folks looking for free skill ups, scamming for plat up front to do combines, etc.

                And that's just to name a few of the problems that it would cause.

                So, while it would be nice to be able to make a few plat off of my tradeskills, not being the type of tradeskiller who enjoys doing combines with other people's hard camped items, I'm ultimately happy that this was simply a no-fail idiot combine.
                Cigarskunk!
                No more EQ for me till they fix the crash bug.

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                • #9
                  This is a rant, not a discussion. So, I moved it to the PSR.
                  Lothay retired from EQ in 2003
                  EQ Traders - Moderator - MySpace or LiveJournal

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                  • #10
                    With all the no-fail combines in the game already, its actually surprising that someone would get upset at this. Augmentations as I see it serve 2 purposes: to get you to buy LDoN, and then keep you there hunting for this stuff. I for one am glad its all no-drop...becasue the last thing we need is another category of stuff to clog up the bazaar with.
                    Cirin Insandjis
                    70 Shaman
                    Caelum Infinitum
                    Fennin Ro

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                    • #11
                      Hmm..

                      1) Augmentations are no-fail.

                      Thank whichever deity you follow in/out of game. Given how rare I expect the good ones to be (i.e. charms) anything else would be a nightmare of "all guards see invis" proportions.

                      2) Augmentations don't require tradeskills.

                      See 1) as, again, anything else would be "all factions have been reset to default" disaster-level.

                      But I have a question....

                      A No-Drop weapon and a No-Drop augmentation. How precisely do you propose that the Non_Tradeskiller use that augmentation if they WERE tradeskill dependant?

                      Joe: Oh oh oh... haste +10% augmentation drop for armor. Me wants.
                      Itek: Sorry Joe, it's jewelcraft tradeskill dependant to set it.
                      Joe: I don't have JC skill.
                      Itek: Odd. Hey, I just happen to be a 59 enchanter with a 250 JC skill, GM JC trophy, and Jewelcraft-Mastery-Three so I _NEVER_ fail a combine in JC.
                      Joe: Um /rand 100 for it?
                      Itek: Surely you jest.

                      Wanna go that way?
                      In My (Not Always) Humble Opinion, except where I quote someone. If I don't know I say so.
                      I suck at this game, your mileage WILL vary. My path is probably NON-optimal.
                      Private Messages attended to promptly.

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                      • #12
                        Just what we need. More reasons to force people to start tradeskilling.

                        I'm glad Sony did it this way.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          /agree Kiztent

                          DO you seriously want more people power tradeskilling so they can use their augs? More uber players throwing huge amounts of cash at components in the Bazaar, driving up all the prices again????

                          Why should augs be restricted to tradeskillers?? cos they would be as the amount of NoDrop items/augs would force this.

                          If its from a roleplaying standpoint, then i remember seeing a film where the hero get this Green Gem (lets call it 'aug') and takes it to this sword with an open metal hand as the pomel. He holds up the Gem and it floats over to the sword and the pomel hand closes over the gem grasping it. THe sword is then more uber, and the hero goes and kills bad guys with it....

                          Augs are magical.... they can attach themselvs to items.
                          Pootle Pennypincher
                          Short in the eyes of some...
                          Tall in the hearts of many!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Pootle
                            If its from a roleplaying standpoint, then i remember seeing a film where the hero get this Green Gem (lets call it 'aug') and takes it to this sword with an open metal hand as the pomel. He holds up the Gem and it floats over to the sword and the pomel hand closes over the gem grasping it. THe sword is then more uber, and the hero goes and kills bad guys with it....
                            Hawk the Slayer! Total Ownage, cheesiest movie ever. Gotta love Jack Palance.

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                            • #15
                              LDoN stuff is nodrop. It has to be that way. There are players that play for the adventure, and seeing new stuff. There are other players that just want to have the biggest numbers in each slot and could care less if they never left the bazaar. In a business decision (that I agree with) SoE covered all the bases of *why* someone would want to buy the expansion. It would be really stupid for them to put together an expansion that a small percentage of their customer base would have a reason to purchase.

                              Being nodrop, you can't hire an artist to do the work for you. And you can't expect everyone to be an artist. What would be the point if everyone was a GM Jeweler?

                              LDoN isn't killing tradeskills... it isn't hurting us. There's still plenty of players.... our customers if you think of it that way... that go to the bazaar in seach of crafted items. While there isn't much of a demand for end items (such as armor and weapons), there seems to be a HUGE demand for consumables. Which consumables depends on your server.

                              Saryrn Server -- My Magelo's Here

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