Using the word "Gay"

[Caethe Darkraven]

First off, I stole this next quote froma spiel Cigarskunk did over at TNZ. It pretty much totally and completely hit head on what I think about "modern language"

Language changes whether some of us like it or not - the d00d speak which you used to type your complaint is a great example of this change - you saw how many folks bagged on you for using it just as you bag on folks for using the word gay in a way you don't approve of.
That raid was really cool.

Was it in a cold location or against an ice casting mob or was it just really neat?

That raid was neat.

Was the raid very interesting or simply well organised?

That female druid is a fox.

Is she very attractive or is she testing the new spell "Fox Form?"

That raid was gay.

Was the raid a very happy and go lucky one, was the mob or raid force of an alternative lifestyle or did things just go very poorly?

That raid was bad.

Did the raid go off extremely well or extremely poorly?

That mob is gimp.

Is the mob a virgin, disabled, has a fighting spirit or is a GNU Image Manipulation Program?

Toss another [rhymes with maggot but starts with an "F"] on the fire.

Are we tossing some more wood on the fire or a person of alternative lifestyle?

This raid put my cleric in the red.

Is the cleric out some plat or did he get lucky with a Native American chick?

And what about that chick?

Was the cleric socialising with a young chicken or an attractive lady?

So as you can see, thanks to slang, technology and evolution, what we say, how we say it and what it means changes.

Heck, look at the term "African American" - if you were to call someone that when I was a kid, I garantee you that you'd have a fight on your hands - now adays that is the prefered and politically correct form of racial identification.

And I thought a few of em were pretty dang funny. Go Cig!

[Lilosh]

Using the word GAY as an insult is an immeadite red flag to me.

I instantly place the person on my "Clueless" list.

LOLOLOL GAY IS FUNNEY LOLOL


-Lilosh

[Traska]

I'm with Lilosh.

Gay as an insult came about because it is considered, by closed minded people, to be a bad thing to be homosexual. Language evolving is one thing, but using that as a negative term is paying homage to that kind of bigotry.

[Idara]

Agreed. That particular term is one of my hot buttons along with people saying they "*****" something. That one drives me nuts because it's a very sensitive issue with me personally and I detest people making light of it when they have absolutely NO idea what they're talking about.

[Delfontes]

That raid was bad.

Ok... who says "bad" since 1985 to mean anything but "not good"?

Suprised you didn't throw in "That swinging chick was groovy."

Then pretend you don't know what it means...

Does that mean a baby chicken with many record like grooves on its body was swinging on a vine like tarzan?

[Inyidd]

This is an interesting subject to bring up, since, here in the Pacific NW we've got a teacher who's resigned over a language issue.

For those that haven't heard, a student in this teacher's high school class told him that the test he was giving was gay. The teacher tried to turn it into an object lesson and compared that to the use of the "n" word (the student was black...you figure it out). As you can guess, it hasn't turned out all that well.

It's incredible the different sides that people are taking on this one, and how naive some people are about the ways that language is used these days.

--Inyidd

[Morani]

Words can be amazing triggers for people. Many times the specific word that is a trigger is upsetting for a reason having to do with a person's life. If a person is of a certain ethnicity, than many of the racial "slur" words are typically upsetting because that person has heard them used in a derogatory fashion so many times. Or maybe a parent made a big deal about it/them. Other times, a specific event in a person's life suddenly makes a word VERY unappealing (living through the action the word describes). Other times, people develop a distaste for a word through someone else; maybe a good friend who really can't stand a particular word, so it "bleeds over". The thing to remember though is that they are just words.

On a open scale (something like this board; it's an open forum that anyone can join) people need to watch the words they choose because a large portion of our society has labeled certain words as "foul" and the group needs to be mindful of this somehow or face the "wrath" of society. On a select scale, it's easy to tailor the rules to the group's personal feelings.

The fact that there is not a single word that offends everyone is proof that the words don't carry the negativity but the people do. A speaker can use any word and make it sound derogatory or negative. The listener can also make any word heard sound derogatory or negative. Often times, people put too much of their own issues into what someone else says regardless of what was meant. This might be because the person has experienced something personally or it might be because of a perceived difference between speaker and a listener.

Chris Rock did a movie in which he played a black comedian know for his jokes about the odd things black people do. The character was very popular and considered very funny. In the movie, the character dies and is returned to Earth in the body of a white man. He tried to tell the exact same jokes the exact same way; suddenly nobody's laughing, they're are getting angry now. There was a perceived difference.

The point of all this is that it's not just the speaker's responsibility to choose the right words, but it's also the listener's responsibility to choose the correct intended meaning. It's also up to the listener to decide if he or she is going to feed into the speaker's intent (mostly referring to how one reacts to derogatory word usage).

Inyidd, I feel sorry for the teacher. Unfortunately, I think that says less about language than it does about society's rules on the various groups involved and how lopsided those rules are. (As I see it, there are at least 6 different groups represented by that incident.)

[Aandaie]

Using gay to mean something is bad, has absolutely zero to do with actually being gay. I really can't understand why it offends people.

It is like when I say something is "ghetto", it has no reflection on someone actually living in a ghetto.

It is called slang, eventually it becomes accepted. I bet 30 years ago some old ladies who liked to say they "felt gay" to mean they were happy, were very offended when feeling happy started to mean having a homosexual sexual preference. Yet you sure don't worry about offending them, do you?

This is what I use as a test:

Are you actually saying something bad about homosexuals, in some way expressing a dislike of them or their lifestyle, in some way bashing them, by saying:

"That movie was gay, as in it was lame, etc"

No, you are not.

Are you actually saying something bad about a crippled person, or a disabled person by saying:

"They gimped by character, my character was nerfed, etc"

No, you are not.

So I think a person should look beyond being such a PC freak and instead look at the actual feeling behind the statement.

There is a point where people become so PC that the only people discriminated against in reality, are those who themselves refuse to be so **** PC that everyone is a big wussy. We have reached this point now and it is a bit ridiculous.

I'm tired of "Elmer Fud", the rich white male, being the only person that it is okay to portray in an unflattering way in cartoons or media in general. It has simply gone to far.

People started saying "gay" to mean that, I kind of picked it up also as I do other modern sayings. It has no reflection on anyone's sexual preference, which I view as "their private business." Get over it. It doesn't matter if the first people to use it were using it because they personally looked down on homosexuals, it is not used that way now.

[Traska]

Okay. Experiement time.

Use the "N" word. Or the word that used to be on cleaning agents with "-n-Span" attached to it. Use them, on a message board open and accessible to people of all nationalities and persuasions, to describe something in a non-offensive way.

It's the same way with "gay" (or "ghey", which is like people spelling words out with s p a c e s to avoid language filters to my eyes). Just because it's not offensive *to you* gives you not a single right to declare what does and does not offend us. Yes, you have the freedom to use that word. Others have the freedom to speak out against it, to say how it opens wounds. That's the nature of free speech. Just because you *can* do something doesn't mean you *should*.

And for some people, seeing negativity surrounding a word that quite accurately describes them in a game they come to *get away from that kind of stress* just hurts all the more.

People get told every day that they're bad, wrong, *defective* because they happen to prefer the company of their own gender. "You're going to Hell", "you're a freak", "you're commiting sins against nature", "you should have been aborted", etc, etc. Every. Day. It's reinforced by religion, their families, the government, even the media. In some areas of the country, it's even still technically illegal. Can you imagine that for just one moment? Being told who you are and are not allowed *by law* to love?

They're told that they can't be in the military unless they pretned to be like "normal, decent folk". They're told they are not allowed to start a family. They're told they cannot adopt, and chances are good that any accusation of wrongdoing will result in their children that they birthed and/or raised being taken from them. They're subjected to a completely different set of rules than most people. Equality is fine if you happen to be heterosexual.

So they get on the internet. Look, a place where people don't know you, can't judge you. So they get into online games. Look, a place where you can meet people, make friends. And then, just when they start to believe, for one brief moment, that they fit in, they see: "You got beat down by an orc? That's so stupid... you're so gay!"

In one second, an insensitive comment by an unthinking individual reminds them just how accepted they really are. That is what that word does. Declare me PC if you want to, but you have absolutely no basis on what to declare does and does not offend anyone but yourself.

On an unrelated note... nerfed is slang for disabled now? =P

[Lilosh]

On an unrelated note... nerfed is slang for disabled now? =P

My mother is nerfed.

OMGWTF!!! Darn you, Sony.


-Lilosh

[Danthen]

Hahaha, I find it funny that you compare the word "nigger" to the word "gay". They're not even remotely similar.

[Traska]

The N-word: A perjorative used to negatively describe a dark-skinned person.

Gay (as a negative term): A perjorative used to describe a homosexual (or, in more recent cases, just about anything).

I'm afriad I don't see a tremendous difference, except that one is allowed to continue while one is not. It's legal to discriminate against one class and not another. Those are about the only differences.

Used to be, the word used to negatively describe gays rhymed with "beer". Then it was the abbreviation of homosexual. Then it rhymed with "maggot". Now, it's "gay". The term changes, the meaning remains the same.

Note that there are good uses of the word when pertaining to homosexuals. But since thise discussion specifically deals with the word as an insult, I didn't feel the need to include the caveat that we're dealing exclusively with "gay" as an insult. Hence why I compared it to the N word.

[Nhin Impious]

Traska writes,

Just because it's not offensive *to you* gives you not a single right to declare what does and does not offend us.

You know, of all the things I really wish people would get, that's a big one.

I'd just add one thing. When someone tells you that you've offended them, don't argue about whether or not what you said was offensive. Just apologize and move on.

Lilosh writes (or would if he hadn't made that typo),

Using the word GAY as an insult is an immediate red flag to me.

I instantly place the person on my "Clueless" list.

Me, too, but I'm not as nice as you, Lilosh; I don't use the word "clueless."

Nhinx Aphsion
Festively disamused Cleric of Innoruuk

[lonewylfe]

The N-word: A perjorative used to negatively describe a dark-skinned person.

Wait. If this is so negative to them, why do all the ones around here go using it to describe themselves? And it's not one of those cases where it's ok for them to use it and not others, nobody seems to care who says it to whom. Only time I've heard it used negatively is to label the light-skins who try to act like they're something else.
I guess different regions, different meanings for words *shrug*

Was grouped with a guy the other day who said "omg how gay!" when we got trained (nobody died, but it was close). I sent him a tell about his choice of wording, and it turned out he DIDN'T KNOW. He was from Europe and had seen people saying it, and picked it up as slang.

I always thought nerfed came from Nerf company, the way they make things like footballs into things you can still use but can't really hurt anybody with.

There's really almost no way to say anything anymore without offending somebody somewhere.

[Fiigmo]

I guess different regions, different meanings for words *shrug*

I think you hit the point with that comment.

I have to think about some the words I would use over here (UK) everyday but might cause offense to someone else in the world.