Using the word "Gay"

[Traska]

Sure Stormhammer, Sullon, college choices, whathaveyou are acceptable. They're all choices one makes. You can choose to be on Stormhammer or not. Being a certain color, a certain sexual orientation, a certain nationality... these are things you are, not things you choose to be.

That said, once a joke starts offending someone (even a Stormhammer joke), it's no longer funny.

And to reference an above point:

It isn't what you say, it's how you say it.

That's all fine and dandy, but try being a non-black person and using the N-word in the most innocent manner you can think of. (There's a great scene in Rush Hour that demonstrates this).

[kiztent]

Being a certain color, a certain sexual orientation, a certain nationality... these are things you are, not things you choose to be.

Boy that opens up the industrial sized can of worms. I've heard both sides of the arguement on orientation.

[Morani]

WARNING. I've decided to NOT be PC or pull punches in this post. As far as I know, I've not violated any board rules or requests on behavior but I can guarantee that some people will not be happy to read this. If you are upset by what I have stated, please think about why you are. Hopefully, most of the readers will have read enough of my previous posts to know who I am. My intent is not to upset people but to make people THINK critically about themselves. Unfortunately, that upsets some people.

I think my earlier point got missed. It is not SOLELY the responsibility of the speaker to make sure that communication goes smoothly. The listener as just as much responsibility to make sure that he or she is not jumping to conclusions. I'm not saying that the speaker is "let off the hook" but that side is not what I'm interested in talking about so, with it stated, its being push aside.

For each of you that have stated that every time someone uses a certain word you automatically classify them as ignorant, a bigot, whatever; congratulations, you've made yourself a hypocrite. You object to someone using a classifying and (possibly) derogatory word. In response to it, you classify the user with a derogatory additive. Granted, this is sometimes accurate but it is not ALWAYS accurate.

Making a blanket assumption like that is creating a stereotype and fitting people to it just like the words being objected to do. You are dispaying the same behavior your are objecting to. Just because someone uses a word it does NOT mean that:
A) the person understands the word as you do,
B) the person is using the word as you think they are or
C) that the person is INTENDING it to have an insulting meaning.

It's EASIER however to blame someone else than to do something about a problem. I don't know a single person (and I'm DEFINETLY included) who's never gotten into an argument or been hurt by something only to find out later that it was all a misunderstanding.

The next time you get offended by someone casually using a word, think about the following definitions and see if they apply to how you are going to respond.

prej·u·dice
n.
1.
a. An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts.
b. A preconceived preference or idea.
2. The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions. See Synonyms at predilection.
3. Irrational suspicion or hatred of a particular group, race, or religion.
4. Detriment or injury caused to a person by the preconceived, unfavorable conviction of another or others.

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Anyone who uses the word "gay" as a pejorative is, IMHO, showing their ignorance. Sure, they can say it. Here in the USA, they've got freedom of speech. But it's MY choice how to respond to it, and generally I choose to be highly offended.

I can sympathize; I've been stereotyped PLENTY in my life. But, as you said, you have the choice as to how you respond. It totally boggles me as to WHY you would CHOOSE to bring more pain/degradation/anger/etc into your life than you already get from things you do NOT have a choice over. Words with negative meanings exist BECAUSE people choose to be offended, not the other way around. If people would choose to not be offended/hurt then the word would quickly stop being used as a way to get a reaction. If someone uses the word gay to get a reaction from you and you react, you've just given that person control and power over you; you've given them what they want. You've also given the word more reason to continue being used in the way you do not want it to be. If you don't like it, stop feeding the cycle.

Even when it has a meaning, it can only be hurtful if you want it to be. We give the word power and by refusing to even saying the word (using "N" word instead of nigger), we continue to let it have power us, instead of us having power over it. Im not advocating going around and using those words. They still have bad connotation to them, and many people will still get offended by them. But by continuing to make the words taboo, they will always be around and used to hurt others.

Thank you. It's nice to see that someone else agrees with at least one of my points.

[Traska]

Boy that opens up the industrial sized can of worms. I've heard both sides of the arguement on orientation.

<Laughing> Yeah, I have too. And the whole choice thing almost always sends me into a gigglefit. Here's why:

"I'm gay by birth, not by choice."
"Nuh-uh, you chose to be gay!"
"Really. And you chose to be heterosexual?"
"Yes!"
"So, at some point, you took a look at your options, weighed them, and decided to sleep with women instead of men? You, sir, are bisexual. I don't recall making any such choice."

It's usually right around then that their head explodes.

Also... why would anyone choose to be hated, ostracized, blacklisted, despised, and blamed for the majority of soceity's ills? If it were that easy, they'd choose heterosexuality.

[Lothay]

While this thread has remained largely civil, it has definitely gone beyond the essential purpose of the site.

It's treading in dangerously emotionally charged waters, and it's only a matter of time before the ship of conversation strikes a mine.

Since political and social issues have more than enough sites dedicated to them, I'm going to close this thread and invite those who wish to continue this topic to do so on a site more appropriate.

There's no need for the DenMom and the House Ogre to pay bandwidth costs for what is sure to become of this topic.

~Lothay