A message for the Ladies

[Lilosh]

P.S. Howyoudoin? Howyoudoin?

Fuggedaboudit.


-Lilosh

[Morani]

A guy I use to hang out with had a favorite saying regarding dating: "Women should be the ones to ask guys out more often; come-on, spread the rejection around some." The same got dumped by his girlfriend when he found out that she'd been seeing someone else; cocaine. He was pretty heart broken about it but his way of dealing with it was a "mantra"; "Remember, if your girl is one in a million, there are five of her in New York City alone."


Quinner, some times people DO change and sometimes what you THOUGHT you knew was a cover identity. I can sympathize; I spent 2 years in marriage counseling with someone I wasn't even married to because I wanted to make it work. Obviously you do not want to end the relationship, if you did it wouldn't tear you up and bother you so much. The question on that (for yourself, the answer is likely a little to personal to post in a public forum) is WHY do you not want to leave? Familiarity, security, insecurity, expectation, family (your, hers, children), religion, personal commitment, emotional commitment, etc. The answer is likely to be multiply things. Once you figure out what you are getting from your current relationship that you feel you can not get (or do not want to get) elsewhere you'll know what you are fighting for. Fighting for a cause you understand and believe in is MUCH easier than fighting for an ambiguous thing.

Another very important question is: Does she want to work it out and fix the problem? If the answer is no, there is no amount of work on your end that will change the relationship (with the exception of becoming what she wants you to be and I don't know ANYONE who's worth giving up yourself for.) This is something that took me 8 years to learn for myself; I a bit stubborn. :? Throwing yourself at a "brick wall" in an effort to change what refuses to change will only cause you to deeply resent the "wall" and become bruised and broken.

On to the tough part. <sheepish grin> Every problem in a relationship is two sided. (Note; I am not and will not try to accuse you being the problem/source. I don't think it'll come out that way but I'm just covering my bases to there isn't an accidental misunderstanding.) Every time I (using the universal "I") get upset with a partner's behavior (long term issues) it's because there is something within myself that my partner is triggering. It might be something about myself that I don't like or maybe it something old that I'm still carrying with me (real example; My mother was a MASTER of guilt trips so now I will NOT put up with them, unfortunately I have jumped down peoples' throats because I THOUGHT I was about to get a guilt trip and ended up over reacting by a large margin.) Now, I'm not suggesting that this is what is happening on your end, though there might be something there of yours that is adding an additional level of complexity. I'm suggesting that your wife has some issues that you are triggering and she is reacting to.

Enter that part about cooperation. You can help by changing how you approach the trigger situations but unless she's willing to work on overcoming them all you'll end up doing is changing your behavior (and thus a bit of who you are). These are things we all do and don't realize it. If your boss is in a foul mood, you'll change your behavior so that you don't become a target of that mood even though it may have had NOTHING to do with you. The difference is that by being aware of it you can be more effective and helpful.

People get into "ruts" with their behaviors and these "ruts" become habits. Most people who have been in long term relationships know at last one thing in the relationship that seems to have a script to it because both sides do the exact same thing every time. Fights usually fall into this. To work on the issue, the fight needs to be avoided and especially avoid the "Script". What it comes down to is finding behavior cycles that have become a habit and breaking the cycle. This doesn't fix the problem but it gives the opportunity to try something new. Until the new thing becomes habit, there is opportunity to fix the personal problems.

People DO change (I think it's becoming a theme) and in order to stay in the relationship, people need to change together. If they do not, the relationship falls apart and they go their separate ways. This is not necessarily a BAD thing. My parents got divorced after 23 years of marriage (only child) and they are better off for it. It wasn't bad, but they were not healthy; each was holding the other back, as they where growing in ways that didn't work together. It happens in life and it sucks to go though it but it's not something to feel guilty about.

Unfortunately, there is a lot of soul searching that goes into resolving a situation like this regardless of the outcome. The only TRUE advice that I'll give you is: do NOT just sit on the bench and hope the problem fixes itself; work on understanding what you want if nothing else. Problems like this seldom go away and they get vastly more difficult to handle as more habits are engrained and patterns are built. Each one of those habits and patterns will need to be dealt with, as they are all, in a way, individual "issues".

I hope this helps in some way. If you want to talk more, just PM me.

[Lilosh]

"Remember, if your girl is one in a million, there are five of her in New Your City alone."

This is my absolute favorite thing that I have ever heard.


I am still laughing,and so Is my best friend (Who I called immeaditly to share this with).

Whoever thought of this line has won my heart over. I'm still laughing.


-Lilosh

[Farnyr]

That is the best mantra I've heard in a long time. Only one problem with it. What if you've found the one in the million, but to her, you are just 999,999 in 1,000,000? *sigh*

[Faymar]

I think the advice of get away and on your own is good, if disappearing for a weekend is an option for you. When you live with someone, that person affects you (and vice versa); some very clear roles/patterns/routines get established and it can be hard to even see them. Some time on your own somewhere can help you get to grips with who you are vs who you are when you are with her.

I would have described my ex similarly to your above post, I think. It was a control thing ... as I grew more distant, he grew more panicked which manifested itself in his trying to regain control of the situation/of me. This meant belittling anything that didn't directly involve him, taking over situations that I was quite happily handling, snide comments in public, blaming me for anything negative. It was way too far gone by the time I realised that this was based on his insecurity about his position in my life and changes in me/my confidence over the course of our relationship ... and I'm not sure he ever realised it at all. I'm not sure if looking at this aspect earlier would have helped us break out of that pattern or not. But maybe it could help to think about what she is (perhaps subconsciously) trying to achieve (as opposed to what she is achieving, which is making you unhappy *frown*).

Where you are is not a fun place to be but we are thinking of you...

[Nhin Impious]

Lilosh writes,

If you see the semi-cute, funny guy with The boyish grin and the quick wit. You know the one who you always see, and who seems to always have his head on the ground...

Give him a friendly smile, and perhaps the time of day.

It's quarter to four here... shouldn't you be on my shoulder? *smile*

Nhinx Aphsion
"cleric with an angel on one shoulder and a devil on the other"

[Luclingal]

Sounds like a recipe for more EQ time to me. Get some quality levelling in.

Oh and ROFL about your neighbors wife channeling satan, the visual of that is just hilarious!

EQ is "the problem" in a lot of relationships, I boldly proclaim. Show me a broken marriage where one or both people played EQ, and I bet 90 percent of the time, it's going to be because they lost contact with one another, stopped communicating, "fell out of romance" because of the long hours of sitting on their asses in front of their computers. Or worse, they may have cheated in-game.

So if you have problems, and especially if your wife does NOT play EQ, playing more is the exact way to make the situation worse.
Two sides to every story is very correct.....does she play EQ, and if she doesn't, just exactly how much do you play? Her growing distaste for you could be justified.

Sorry to be the antagonist here, but I don't think anyone that spills hours upon hours each day towards this game, really has any right to complain about their real life. myself included.

[tabrizia]

Actually EQ is not a problem it maybe an escape mechanism, but it is highly unlikely that it caused the problem. If you don't want to deal with something with your spouse you can just as easily ignore them reading a book, or watching tv. EQ is a great scapegoat, but it is highly doubtful that it will cause real problems in a secure marriage.

HOnestly it tends to help my marriage, since my husband can easily get my attention by sending me a tell in game, insteading of yelling or trying to do three things at once and run upstairs to ask me something. EQ helps communication in my house because it is a quick and easy way to touch bases, without having to run up and down stairs while doing something else. It is just in the way you look at it.


Now yes if you aren't paying any attention to your marriage and are playing eq, that is a syptom of something being wrong. But most likely you would be using a different outlet to escape with if it wasn't EQ, be it watching tv, reading a book, running, going to the sports club or any of a hundred other things that can be done as hobbies and can cause communication gaps between people.

[kiztent]

Sounds like a recipe for more EQ time to me. Get some quality levelling in.

So if you have problems, and especially if your wife does NOT play EQ, playing more is the exact way to make the situation worse.

I meant after the divorce when you don't have to worry about keeping a wife happy :P

[Heartsong_Steelsoul]

I also have a tendency to think that marriages where one person playing EQ and one not cause problems would have problems anyway. It seems like all the guys at work who complain about their wives and seem so impressed that my husband got a computer geek/roleplayer like me don't have enough in common with their spouses, in my opinion. I mean, my husband didn't 'get me into EQ', I already loved roleplaying games and computers before I ever met him...

[Morani]

Simply put, PEOPLE have problems, not inanimate objects. Anyone who blames an inanimate object as the source of their problem (and is serious about it) already IS living in a fantasy world. Objects do not CAUSE any problems, they are a tool. Saying that an object is the cause of something is like blaming a hammer for the nail being in a board. What it comes down to is, its a cop-out. Unfortunaely, our society as had about 1300 years of practice at this and has REALLY been refined it in the last 100 year. If someone goes on a killing spree with a gun, SOMEONE will blame the gun and/or the gun manufacturer (no, I'm not a gun enthusiast, I dodn't even like them but I AM a reality enthusiast). The reason cited is usually that the gun is an object created specifically for the purpose of killing. Well, so is a sword (as a matter of fact, it's sole purpose of creation is to kill PEOPLE, at least a gun can be used to hunt with) but the same person going on a killing spree with a SWORD would be taken for what it is: a deeply disturbed person with "issues".

Two sides to every story is very correct.....does she play EQ, and if she doesn't, just exactly how much do you play? Her growing distaste for you could be justified.

<Blink…Blink> I'd say this issue has hit a little too close to a sore spot. Normally, I'd let this kind of thing slide and not make any comment at all but those are my words you are twisting to say EXACTLY the kind of thing I did NOT want to say. Please leave the twisting to the bards. If you have an abandonment issue that is being triggered by someone dear to you, please take it up with that person and NOT a "handy stranger" whom you can lash out at to feel better about yourself.

[Farnyr]

If a couple is so diffrent that one cannot understand the other playing video games, or cannot share the joy(I know a TON of couples who play EQ because one played and got the other one hooked), then I question why they are together.

I know I'm not married, and far from it, but I've always heard that the best relationships are were the husband and wife are each others best friend. Ive got friends who scream when EQ is mentioned(hehe), and I dont think I could ever consider them my best friend, because of that. On the other hand, I've got a friend who accepts that I play EQ and actually plays a bit herself from time to time, and I could definately see myself marrying her(but thats a whole other issue).

If one person is relying on an inanimate object as a form of "escapism" its not the objects fault. Its just the person needing to find something they can be bestfriends with again.....does that make sense? I hope it does.

[Eowenna Celerdain]

/comfort

There is no such thing as a perfect partner. That's a myth.

You're human, so is every potential partner. You're both gonna have imperfections that get on each other's nerves sometimes.

There's no such thing as a perfect or ideal relationship.

Good relationships don't just happen. They are built because both people involved work their tails off to make it happen. Neither half can do it all. When one half attempts to do all the work it leads to "burning out" ... or worse.

Odd, isn't it, how frequently opposites attract? Realistically, no two people can be exactly the same. There will always be some differences.

Sometimes the differences are handled properly, and the pair learn to balance the strengths of one against the weaknesses of the other. When this happens, their union causes both to become stronger and healthier as a result. And the two grow closer together (with out being intrusive or codependent) as they move forward in their lives.

When differences are not handled properly, one or both are likely to begin feeling uncomfortable. Discomfort frequently leads to friction, and -- left unchecked -- friction can lead to abuse. Especially if one or the other came out of an abusive background.

There's a fine line between friction and abuse, I can't be absolutely certain that I could define it properly. It does exist.

======================================

Some ideas which you may find helpful in a rocky relationship:

The changes that happened in your relationship probably didn't happen overnight. Spending a little time thinking on the current trends, and tracing them back to where they first began emerging, may be helpful.

Soul-searching is also prudent and healthy, as long as care is taken to avoid both the extremes. Don't accept too much or too little responsibility for how things have changed. Don't kick yourself if you discover your hindsight now is better than your insight or foresight was at the time.

Don't be shy about exploring your own motivations, and what you really want(ed) to see happen. It's almost impossible to avoid having expectations in the formation of a relationship, and being disappointed in some measure as it grows. How each person reacts to those disappointments may be a determining factor on the success or failure of the relationship.

Try to understand what factors may be encouraging the changes in your partner, and if those factors are anything you can (or should) modify. Attempts to change things beyond your own control will only lead to frustration. And definitely learn if your partner wants to try to work things out ... or not.

In most cases, an experienced counselor is a great asset in sorting these things out. It's far too easy to be "too close" to the situation and overlook something a more objective person would spot immediately.

Having looked things over as objectively as possible, you will have choices to make on how you are going to move forward. Ultimately, that is *the* responsibility that rests squarely on your own shoulders.

Others can offer suggestions, based on experience or emotion according to our own bent, and we can feel for you, and attempt to support you. But you are the one who must live with the results of your own decisions 24/7 in a way that nobody else ever will.

Take the time you need to examine options, use that time effectively, then act as best your conscience, intelligence and heart can lead you.

I cannot promise that you will never look back and wish you'd chosen differently.

I can assure you that "doing nothing" is also a choice. That particular choice (doing nothing) nearly always leads to heartache and regrets.

For your own sake, the best I can suggest is that you make *some* conscious decision, and act on it.

I hope you will choose wisely, and chart a course toward something healthier than what you have now.

(PS - unpleasant chores exist. In a healthy relationship, some system is worked out so that neither half is saddled with all of them. In some cases, they hire a maid service or neighbor's kid to come do them. Please don't limit your options needlessly.)

[fielan]

Another very important question is: Does she want to work it out and fix the problem? If the answer is no, there is no amount of work on your end that will change the relationship (with the exception of becoming what she wants you to be and I don't know ANYONE who's worth giving up yourself for.)

Out of everything everyone's said.. Have you told her how you feel? Have you expressed how unhappy she's making you? Have you asked what exactly it is that she wants from you?

The two most important aspects of a happy marriage is communication and compromise. You may have to give something up, but she does need to meet you halfway. If she's not willing to work towards a life together... well.. there's not a whole lot you can do.

Two years nearly to the day after my wedding, my husband woke up and told me that marrying me was a mistake. He walked out and never looked back. Don't do that to your wife. At least give her the chance to try and work things out.

*HUG* Best of luck, and if you need an ear, please feel free to PM me.[/quote]