Collapsible Forge: Oh please, please...

[GrimwoodCT]

We will ever see a collapsible forge for "on the fly combines"?

[Ikken]

Unfortunately it has been stated many, many times that this won't happen.

-Ike

[GrimwoodCT]

What was the primary objection?

Coding, logic (no-one could carry a forge around) or something else?

Just curious, not spoiling (much) for an argument.

[Ngreth Thergn]

Not sure I said never as much as "no interest" and/or "no plans"

Basically it is that we just don't like the idea of a portable forge.

If we had a way to require a "fuel" I would be more likely to do it, but the current version of tradeskills does not allow for that.

[Bobaten]

You could add a gnomish heat source to every recipe allowed in the portable forge. Or possibly have a gnomish heat source required as the component for the "unpack forge" spell (or rather, "fire up forge") on the collapsed forge, and then set the container to be consumed on every combine. It wouldn't be the most convienent system possible, but it would be portable.

[GrimwoodCT]

The gnomish heat source idea is excellent but I was reticent to mention it (since I envisioned the GHS being used in the combine, thus making it necessary for a complete overhaul of all smithed combines) but the idea of it being required to open the forge is excellent.

Even a full stack of GHS's to open it sounds good and make it TEMP container so you can't open it once and leave it in inventory in-perpetuity.

OR:

Make the forge consume GHS's the way a toon consumes food. The longer it is open the longer it consumes the GHS.

"Yu could add a gnomish heat source to every recipe allowed in the portable forge."

Unwieldy and would require complete re-itemization of every smithed combine.

"Or possibly have a gnomish heat source required as the component for the "unpack forge" spell (or rather, "fire up forge") on the collapsed forge"

I like that.

"...and then set the container to be consumed on every combine. It wouldn't be the most convienent system possible, but it would be portable."

Hehe, and I hate that.

Imagine. Click to combine, click to inventory the made item, click to re-open new forge, repeat.

[Bobaten]

Ok.. here is an entirely complicated method, which might be possible with current coding (and isn't complicated just another word for gnomish?).
The idea is, you fuel the forge with your life energy. So it's kind of a necromantic portable forge.
1. Unpacking the collapsed forge has a recourse effect.
2. The recourse effect is coded as unresistable, detrimental (will block OOC regen).
3. The recourse effect drains your hp/mana/endurance (possibly not hp so it can't be deadly...but isn't deadly just another word for gnomish?)
4. This is the part I am not sure about: The recourse effect changes your bodytype to a new, special bodytype.
5. The unpacked forge will only allow characters with this special bodytype to do combines.

I'm not sure about the bodytype thing, but the idea is for the recourse to set a temporary flag on the character, and the portable forge only works for characters with that flag.

As far as my previous suggestion about adding a GHS to every combine, it's my understanding that adding a new container type to do combines already entails making a copy of all of the recipes that will be allowed in the container. Following the previous examples of baking and brewing, I assume that the portable container won't have as many slots as the stationary container. For example, if it was going to be a 4 slot container, copy all of the recipes with 4 or fewer ingrediants to the portable forge, add a GHS to every recipe so copied, then make the actual container a 5 slot container.

[Taushar]

There has to be simpler way to do this. I like the idea of using GHS. How about making the container temp as other as said. How to use is GHS is similar to spell requiring an agent, like imbue spell. It checks for GHS and if it's present, you can cast the spell to conjure up the temp container. If it's missing, give a message saying it's missing, just like imbue spells.

EDIT: Doesn't the PoK gate neck items from PoP require an agent? Can't this be similar?

Or make it like other chargeable items. You need to combine in a toolkit a number of GHS in with the empty device to give the device 10 charges to conjure up temp forge.

I think there are mechanisms in game to accommodate this.

[Mortas]

Or Firewater as a reagent for the summoning

GHS sounds like a good idea

[KyrosKrane]

GHS may be too cheap, though, at 1pp per use. Maybe a new component? Folding Forge Fuel. =) Or else maybe a mana battery?

Side note: Conceptually, a portable forge does exist -- it's the quest container you use to do the PoP ornate and elemental armor combines for chain and plate classes. So the idea for it is there, if you need some sort of precedent.

Mystical Furnace of Ro

[GrimwoodCT]

Add a pricier component, I am fine with that.

Historically, there were forms of portable forges. The real travelling tinkers that repaired tin, copper or fixed household goods could not rely on the friendly blacksmith to offer up his mise-en-place. They had small crucibles, heat sources and tools that could provide the appropriate products.

I am not saying that a collapsible forge should be a 10 slotter that can make full BPs but somehting akin to the collapsible distillery might be in order.

Not a full 10 slot container but something that will permit 4-6-8 item combines. Make it heavy, make it hard to "fire up" but make it, eh?

[Ngreth Thergn]

well.

Just requiring it to open is not enough, and making it temporary does not fix it because people just leave it on corpses to store it.

The other ideas so far have been either a code change or a mass duplication of recipes. (there is currently no way to say if X container is used and then add an extra ingredient... it would mean a duplicate recipe for every single recipe that could use the container)

Bobaten's idea is more possible, but would be nearly as bad a hack as my tinkering trophy because I would have to add a script to every single smithing recipe that could fit in the portable forge... and there is probably already a script on it for the trophy making it even worse...

Maddoc and I spoke about it at lunch yesterday... and one thought was that when it was opened it reset a character flag on the player to 0. A particular combine would then be used to "stoke" the forge, this would set the flag to say 5 (arbitrary at this time) Then any smithing combine that does not require a special container and will fit will work and a script (still a hack!) would then check if the flag is more than 0. If it is decrement the flag (yeah not really a flag anymore... but it still works) and allow the combine. If it is 0, disallow the combine (not consuming components) Something similar could be done for the Kiln.

I may like the recourse part slightly better... the script can check if the spell is up, and the container works as long as the spell is up. The Duration of the spell can be set by the fuel used. The thing I can do though is have part of the recourse be a root. So you cannot move around with this large hot object (it also makes sense for the pottery wheel... not really going to do pottery while moving) I could even possibly (though it would be a code change) put "tradeskill counters" and each combine removes an amount of counters, so that you have both a duration (the coals will cool if you don't use them fast enough) and a maximum number of combines.

At this point this is STILL speculation though, and not a promise of anything.

[Liwsa]

To avoid people leaving the portable forges on bodies make it have a timer like a buff. One to two hours should be enough time for anyone really "using " it, to use it. This may avoid any exploit folks could come up with. If the forge is on a dead body it fades when the timer runs out so there is no reason to do that. If you loot a forge off a body but the timer is over the forge just poofs(or becomes a 20 pound bag like summoned bags do if there is something in it) either way it is not useable as a forge after the timer runs out.

Any real tradeskiller that wants a portable forge can live with a set amount of time to use before having to summon another one.

[KyrosKrane]

Another option for you. Make the "summon forge" a quick spell (not a ten second cast) with a cheap reagent, then make the container consumed on combine. This pretty much wraps up all the issues -- you have to summon the forge for each combine, so there's no storage or long-term-use issues, and the quick cast and cheap component to summon keep down the annoyance and cost factors.

On a side note, it would be rather silly to store a forge on a corpse. Real forges are plentiful in cities; the advantage of a collapsible forge is that you could use it at a bank while organizing your supplies, in the field to do subcombines or quick main combines (in particular, breaking down velium weapons, bricks, and blocks in Velious comes to mind), and other times where you just need a quick combine or two. There's not much point in storing a temporary forge on a corpse; the time to get it from the corpse and store it again would kill any convenience. It would be quicker to find an actual forge.

[Bobaten]

I know there is another level of temporary that doesn't go to corpses. Jester summoned wine and bread is like that, as are ae blockers in Uqua. However, I don't particularly like that solution unless it turned into a normal bag on a corpse, because a container poofing when you die could be bad.