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  • Crystalline vs. Wu's

    Board's been really sluggish and connections have been sporadic. Tried to post this earlier, but doesn't seem to have gone through.
    Anyway...

    I'm currently at 126 in tailoring. I've been working on Crystalline Silk, but...

    Provided you can make your own poison vials and kiolas, the big price item in Wu's is the Pearl, which runs at a little over 5pp per, and the enchanter to do the spellwork for you (and who knows what that's going to cost - one of my guild enchanters has volunteered to do it for free for me when I'm ready, but I don't think he knows what he's getting into yet *cackle* - don't worry, I'll toss something extra in for him when he finishes up with the first batch). On my server, vials of mana tend to run between 12 to 14 pp per.
    So a single attempt at Wu's runs at about 15 pp per attempt, max (spider silk is easy to farm).
    On the surface, Crystalline is a lot cheaper. In theory, you farm the spiders, get the silk, head up to the surface, and do a bunch of combines relatively close to a merchant you can dump the excess onto (so you'll have space for all the new combines). That's the theory.
    Of course, the reality is that there's only really a single spawn to farm from, and this area is often contested by others who are interested in the silk - either for their own tailoring, to build up a stockpile for their Thurga port potions, or even to go sell it in the bazaar. Heading to the bazaar doesn't make things much better. On my server, the bare minimum for a crystalline silk is typically 7pp per, with the low sometimes being at about 12pp per. When you consider that it takes two silks to make a swatch, and up to three swatchs to make a combine, then it starts to add up. Lowball, an attempt at the pants or robe runs 42pp per, and at the high end, you're looking at 72pp per. Do you know how many pearls you could buy for that? Or just skip the enchanter entirely, and buy yourself 5 mana vials. Even if you did go farm your own crystalline silk (with the understanding that a full stack of silk would only provide enough for three attempts), it would probably be more tempting to just sell the stuff on the open market. After all, even at the low end, if you sold one robe attempt's worth of silk, you could promptly turn around and buy enough vials for three attempts at Wu's (not that I'd advocate farming something like Crystalline strictly for resale).
    In short, while people seem to suggest sticking with crystalline until 131, its probably more cost effective to quit by the time you triv out mantles at 118, or perhaps even skip it entirely.

    And for those who are curious, what prompted this post was my sole crystalline silk purchase. I found nearly 100 silks on sale in the bazaar for the amazingly low price of 2pp per (the ONLY time I've seen them below 7pp). After buying the vendor out, I scurried off to go perform a number of combines and boost my skill. Then once I was done, I realized that even at that pittance of a price, it might have actually been more cost effective to just skip straight to Wu's.

  • #2
    I believe the problem with Tailoring is the sheer quantity of Heady Kiolas and Mana Vials needed.

    In theory, it may be easier to do Wus.

    But it takes 4 Kiolas, and 1 vial for each Wus combine

    Imagine the brewing, and enchanting time. For every combine.



    -Lilosh

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    • #3
      But it takes 4 Kiolas, and 1 vial for each Wus combine
      Wu's should be changed to only be 2 Kiolas, or even same number of kiolas as silk swatches. 4 for every combine is silly.

      ~ Niellya Lovestead ~
      (Retired)




      Comment


      • #4
        The heady kiolas are a pain in the neck (and possible other areas), and no comment on those, since there's no denying that four of the things per combine is enough to drive someone nuts (but if sanity were a concern, you wouldn't be pursuing this in the first place, now, would you?). But I think the bazaar actually deals with the mana vials quite nicely. Look at it this way.
        As I mentioned, on my server, the low end price on Crystalline silks is 7pp per silk, and the high end price on mana vials for Wu's is 14pp per vial. As it turns out, you need two silks to make a swatch, which means that if you were to go farm Crystalline Silk and sell it in the bazaar for the lowest common price in the market, you could immediately turn around and buy one mana vial for each swatch you would have made.
        In short, go farm Crystal Caverns for an hour or two, leave your computer on overnight with your character logged in at the bazaar, and then buy a bunch of mana vials. Admittedly, its only marginally effective when you're still able to make mantles, but that only lasts for a whole three skill points. Once you cross that mark, its actually more cost effective to sell the silks off and buy mana vials from enchanters selling them in the bazaar.
        The thing is, Crystalline silks are the single most valuable commodity in Crystalline tailoring, while the mana vials are the most valuable commodity in Wu's. In addition, ordinary spider silk is much easier to come by, and much more common than Crystalline silk, as there are a number of different spawn points for spiders, whereas there are only two spawn locations for crystalline silk (provided you count the Thurgadin mines). So by the time you've hit 118 (only three points past quivers), it appears to be much more cost effective to use Wu's than it does to use Crystalline. Admittedly, an extremely poor character could wait for the Crystalline spiders to open up, and then hunt them for a few hours to gather the necessary silk, but it would still be more cost effective for them to take that silk to the bazaar, sell it, and then use the proceeds to buy a bunch of mana vials from enchanters offering them for sale.

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        • #5
          Well, heres my take on it.

          1) As a vendor-mining addict, Crystalline is quite common. MUCH more so then mana vials, or Kiolas. And mana vials cost a fair bit on vendors in the very rare case I see one.

          2) Only one class in the game can make their own vials, so most skillup guides/paths were written for those who can not make their own. I would wager that 85% of people who seriously persue tailoring are Wood Elves or Halflings. Neither race has enchanters. 10% or so are Shawl Questers. The remaining 5% are people who are crazy enough to want 200/250 in all skills. This means, (in my humble hobbit opinion), 85% of tailors can NOT make their own vials, and they other 15% MIGHT be able to.

          My numbers regarding the tailoring population are purely speculative, and designed more to prove a point then to be exact.



          -Lilosh

          Comment


          • #6
            create a gnome enchanter, PL him to level 12, work on his tinkering.

            start making your own vials, and for extra cash, make bow cams to sell in the bazaar for those folks working on their fletching skills.


            if ya work on baking, take his butt to everfrost, let him lvl up by killing spiderlings, polarbear cubs and wolves, use the wolf/bear pelts to make posion vials and fillet the wolf meat to be used in halas pies(sells quick in bazaar). the spiderling silk will become threads that can be used in making leather padding. (either sell in bazaar or use if you're working on smithing)

            unless your main is a warrior, you can pl him to lvl 12 in about 1-2 hours.

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            • #7
              If you plan on making bow cams, you should level your pocket gnome up to 16 at least. Bow cams triv at level 75, and if I remember correctly, gnomish types can only have a skill of 50 until they reach level 16. Not sure of any skill limits after that. Also something to consider is the cost/convenience of raising your pottery skill/collecting pelts for poison vials for the vials of mana, though neither is particulary hard.

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              • #8
                It seems I may be one of the lucky few who post here? Maybe I'm nuts too :P :shock:

                Since I do just about all my own farming for Tailoring, and being a Thief doesn't make that very easy, I found it quite easy to do the Crystalline and Wu's. Maybe the reason for this was because I didn't start on Crystalline or Wu's until I was 55 *shrug*

                Spent a few hours each day for about 2 or 3 weeks collecting Crystalline Silks, combining them and making the armor. I did trivial Crystalline before going to Wu's. I can't remember how many combines it took (was a long while ago) but I did get through it. To me it was alot easier to farm the Crystalline buy the Silver thread and combine them than to worry about farming the Spider Silks, make Kiola's and get Viscious Mana's made for 3 skill ups before having to start Wu's anyway.

                Next up came the Wu's. Oh the Wu's.... ugh the farming for Spider Silks was miserable. I came to hate farming Spider Silks in EK :twisted:

                The only thing that made making the Wu's worthwhile was the fact that I had a Chanter friend willing to make the Viscious Mana for me. With a Cha of 107 at the time, purchasing the Pearls and Poison Vials from merchants only cost me about 6 PP per attempt.

                I collected enough Spider Silks and made enough Heady Kiola's to make approximately 400 attempts at Wu's. I have not been keeping stats on how many combines it took per skill up but I plan too from now on, but I do know that it took me between 360 and 380 combines to go from 131 to 158 and trivial Wu's. This with a Wis between 125 and 130.

                Farming can keep costs down, but you have to have the time and patience to do it. Farming Acrylia is well worth my time

                Tailoring 173 and soon to climb.

                Btw, I'm one of those that doesn't seem to be on Lilosh2's list of why we Tailor. I do Tailoring because I want to, and to help friends. I don't intend to get 200/250 in all skills, I'm not a Shawl Quester, but I am a Halfling (which is the best Race to be)

                Pockets FullOfGold
                Level 58 Thief
                New OutRiders
                The Rathe Server

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Lilosh2
                  I would wager that 85% of people who seriously persue tailoring are Wood Elves or Halflings. Neither race has enchanters. 10% or so are Shawl Questers. The remaining 5% are people who are crazy enough to want 200/250 in all skills. This means, (in my humble hobbit opinion), 85% of tailors can NOT make their own vials, and they other 15% MIGHT be able to.
                  *cough*Erudite cultural*cough*

                  Everybody always forgets us poor Erudites...
                  Itzena Alhazared, Revenant of {Planeteers}, Vallon Zek. And also a seamstress.
                  Gelcea Macha, Wandering Animist of Tarew Marr. Will be a smith, one day.


                  "If it cannot hatch from it's shell, the chick will die without ever truly being born. We are the chick; the world is our egg. If we don't break the world's shell, we will die without truly being born. Smash the world's shell, for the Revolution of the World."

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                  • #10
                    /cough cough...yeah Erudite Cultural..cough cough..

                    Imagine being a Wizard Tailor!....oh the sorrow.
                    Skidorian Wayseeker
                    51st Wizard of Power, Prexus
                    Exploring the Cosmos..one zone at a time.


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                    • #11
                      /cough cough...yeah Erudite Cultural..cough cough..

                      Imagine being a Wizard Tailor!....oh the sorrow.
                      I don't have to imagine it, I'm living it.

                      ~ Niellya Lovestead ~
                      (Retired)




                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Pfft.
                        You think YOU'VE got it rough.
                        I'm a PALADIN tailor.
                        :shock:
                        Not only do I not get mana vials, and start out with lower stats for tradeskills, I've got to raise the lower of my wisdom and intelligence!

                        heh heh

                        Seriously, it IS a pain in the neck being a paladin tailor. And it also doesn't help that the sole low level 'alternate path' for Erudites is an overly expensive boon doggle.
                        And on the bright side, Erudites are so amazingly brilliant that even my 'low' wisdom is a lot better than what many of the other race/class combinations see in either wisdom or intelligence.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          [quote="Itzena"]
                          Originally posted by Lilosh2
                          Everybody always forgets us poor Erudites...

                          Sorry. Erudite cultural was broken/undoable for so long, I think we all kind of forget about it.


                          But that does make ONE race with both Cultural Tailoring and Enchanters.


                          Woot woot.


                          -Lilosh
                          Venerable Noishpa Taltos , Planar Druid, Educated Halfling, and GM Baker.
                          President and Founder of the Loudmouthed Sarcastic Halflings Society
                          Also, Smalltim

                          So take the fact of having a dirty mind as proof that you are world-savvy; it's not a flaw, it's an asset, if nothing else, it's a defense - Sanna

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