Exquisite silk robe template

[Ismel]

So yesterday I made a small mistake, and made a exquisite silk robe template in the belief, that it was used in making Elegant moonsilver robe

Now much to my annoyance when I wanted to make the robe I found out it needs exquisite silk tunic template.

So I made that and got my shiny new robe anyway, but it left me wondering what do you use Exquisite silk robe template for, if not to make the robe ??

Ismel

[KyrosKrane]

This is a known bug that will be fixed with the next major patch. After the patch, silk robes will use the robe template instead of the tunic template.

[Ismel]

ok but what do yuo use the silk tunic template for then ? )

Ismel

[Ngreth Thergn]

Nothing, but posibly skillups.

At the same patch it will loose its tradeskill flag

[thomenthechanter]

A pretty direct question, Ngreth...

No offense intended, Ngreth, but if there are templates that won't be useful, why'd you bother creating them in the first place?

Seems to me this would be an awesome time to insert silk tunics and such for those of us who would really like an option *OTHER* than a robe. Same stats, just different graphic. ;D

[Kemie Dreamshadow]

No offense intended, Ngreth, but if there are templates that won't be useful, why'd you bother creating them in the first place?

All the templates are useful combines for skilling up. They just aren't all used in a further combine to make a final armor product.

[thomenthechanter]

Clarification

All right, apparently I wasn't particularly clear. (I'd feared that as I posted the earlier reply.)

These dead-end templates are useful only from a metagame "Oh let's give them incremental steps" perspective. Unless the calculators on the site are wrong... given a 250 skill, a 10% trophy, and no failure AAs, there is absolutely no difference in the chance of success between a 295-triv combine and a 310-triv combine. So "skill-up path" is not a reason for these to exist, unless I'm missing something (which I've been known to do occasionally). Moreover, many of these dead-end templates have the exact same trivs as "armor" templates: Belt/cap, cloak/pants, gorget/wristband, just to name a few dead-end/armor pairs.

A tradeskiller gets only one chance to skill up by picking one template (say, a belt), and two chances to skill up by picking a equally (or negligibly more) difficult template (say, a cap). Moreover, there's a skillup bonus involved in that second chance (the cap template + helm pattern -> cap armor). Since both use the same number of silks, the only "real" difference between the two templates is which pattern we buy from the NPC merchant.

So, since there's no difference in failure chance between the two recipes, noone in their right mind (or someone with no idea of statistics) should ever buy into the dead-end template path and rob themselves of the bonus second skillup opportunity. So, why bother having them in the first place?

My point is that Ngreth seems to have done more work than he needed to by creating these dead-end templates, and I was wondering why. Either give them a reason to exist (please, a tunic for my silk-wearer!), or he might as well remove them from the game because anyone with half a brain for math will ignore them completely.

[Aethn]

No offense intended, Ngreth, but if there are templates that won't be useful, why'd you bother creating them in the first place?

I for one want to personally THANK Ngreth for adding these templates.

For the first time in 8.5 years of playing Everquest, I feel tailoring is actually working as intended and we have a skillup path from 1-300 that doesnt require farming for 20,000 hours, giving up all raiding, grouping, family life, social life, hell life period just to get materials for combines.

Thank you very much Ngreth, dont change a thing.

[Aethn]

Either give them a reason to exist (please, a tunic for my silk-wearer!), or he might as well remove them from the game because anyone with half a brain for math will ignore them completely.

Your kidding right? You must be new to tradeskilling in Everquest. Anyone with a marginal sense of intelligence can see that these combines are the best thing to happen to tradeskills in the history of this game. The templates you so much want to throw out are the perfect vehicle to skill up on. They are cheap, take little effort to combine and sellback to the vendor for a decnt greed price. If you got your way, the first thing that would happen is every single silk / pelt in bazar would triple in price overnight. Demand would be astronomical and supply would be nearly non-existant.

Be careful what you wish for. I still cringe at the 100's of hours killing Otters / Wyvrrn and fishing for Cod in Cobalt Scars just to make 100 combines that would likely result in 1 or 0 skillups. Try doing that for 3 years before you call for nerfs. Becuase what your essentially asking for is a nerf to the new skillup path.

[Roanne]

Youve completely skimmed over the root of thomentheenchanter's message, Aethn. No one was saying remove all templates from the game; just the ones for slot types that dont lead anywhere. At least the tradeskill flags have now been removed from the dead end templates, removing that confusion.

I see neither how this would affect demand for template components as you suggest (the templates that lead into actual armor would remain) nor how this would negate the entire cultural armor pathway driving us into the Velious era combines again. I guess I can see your argument here if you presumed removal of all tiers without cultural armor as well but this is looking at dead slots, not dead tiers.

Although I dont see the harm in leaving the extra templates in place because they are already there, I happen to think Aethn is right. They are a waste of time and no one with any vision of the long haul is making them to skillup. They serve only to confuse people who dont read these forums, dont understand how skillups actually work, or get their information from only what they see and who they talk to in game.

The extra slot templates do not make the skillup pathway any smoother in actual practice and most people stick to the one drop per combine pathways as long as theyre able anyway. Almost everyone who knows what he or she is doing makes wrists->gloves->hats->chests (moving on to hats and chests only after his or her raw skill no longer allows skill ups on the more efficient recipes while simultaneously moving onto the wrist templates of the next higher tier).

Bottom line is the "smoothest" skillup path is the one that lets you make the most combines. Since we cant actually farm these drops with efficiency at the higher tiers, most artisans are looking at multiple recipes simultaneously while acquiring what they can afford in the bazaar. No one should be making cobalt chain collar templates instead of cobalt chain glove templates because that prevents the second skillup opportunity to use loams as well.

Now as a pretext to getting more cultural armor slots added to the game, by all means leave the dead slot recipes. If there are plans to add an Elegant Snowborn Cummerbund or Elaborate Driftwalker Cape, super. I dont believe this is the case. however, so they were a waste of time for both Ngreth to create them and for us to track and report them here (besides in the context of thoroughness).

In the end, its just another option and Im all for it in an ideal world. There are so many better uses of time however, Id rather have had consistent tier adjectives for my drops, had the skillup penalty to silk templates noticed, or unbugged jewelcrafting augmentations instead of extra dead end templates cultural armor tiers.

[thomenthechanter]

Roanne's picked up exactly on my thought process.

Although I dont see the harm in leaving the extra templates in place because they are already there, I happen to think Aethn is right. They are a waste of time and no one with any vision of the long haul is making them to skillup. They serve only to confuse people who dont read these forums, dont understand how skillups actually work, or get their information from only what they see and who they talk to in game.

Did you put the wrong name in there, Roanne, since it seems that your entire post is agreeing with me? ;D

Oh, and here's a very direct apology for the thread derail. ::Sighs:: If a mod could split this into two posts, I'd be appreciative.

[Aldier]

The reason he put the other slots in was because of the idea in the future to add either more armor to those slots that is crafted OR to convert the rest of the smithing/tailoring armor items over to the templates. In those cases...things like Banded armor would need those additional templates.

Also, for races that lack an armor type, (wood elf silk, dwarven tailors) it therefore does not matter what templates I, a wood elf, make with my silk combines, they are all equally useless to me after the templates are made and therefore does not matter if I make caps or belts.

[thomenthechanter]

Unlike the dead-end template, just because a given template is useless to you because of race doesn't mean they're completely useless, Aldier. Since the usable armor templates aren't NOTRADE, they could be sold/given to another PC who would make use of them.

The dead-end ones are dead-end no matter who they're given to, and therefore serve no useful purpose. Instead, they litter the database, clog merchants, and turn useful tradeskill materials into useless junk.

In short, I am *NOT* calling for their removal from game altogether. My initial post was a query as to why Ngreth went through all the work to create the dead-end ones in the first place, knowing that they would be dead-ends and therefore useless.

At the end of that very first reply was a half-hearted plea to make them usable: let me make a silk tunic for my chanter!

[mulleteer]

The very high end templates are not really a skill up path since you need a 300 skill to click them. I guess they could be a really expensive way of skilling up your trophy.

Mulleteer Combover

[Roanne]

Roanne's picked up exactly on my thought process.



Did you put the wrong name in there, Roanne, since it seems that your entire post is agreeing with me? ;D

Oh, and here's a very direct apology for the thread derail. ::Sighs:: If a mod could split this into two posts, I'd be appreciative.

Yes. I was meant to agree with thomenthechanter there.