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Skilling up with Solstice Robes, a cost study

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  • Skilling up with Solstice Robes, a cost study

    Since the formula for skill up was disclosed in the Fan Faire along with specifics about tailoring, it is now possible to study the cost of raising tailoring using the Solstice Robes route.

    Solstice Robes is different from other skill up routes in that the cost factor is proheminent, compared to, say, Studded Acrylia for which the rarity of components matters the most.

    Equipped with the formula for success, the formula for skillup and a few assumptions about availability of components, it becomes possible to make an estimate of the cost of skilling up at each level.

    First of all, this study is based on formulas below.

    1. Skillup. The chance of skilling up is, according to what Tanker disclosed at the Fan Faire (see this thread) the combination of two checks. The first check is

    P1 = (Stat - 15) / (Skill_difficulty * Success_factor), in percentage, capped at 100%.

    Stat is the highest stat between your wis and int (there is no other relevant stat). Skill_diffuculty is a factor specific to the skill it applies to. For tailoring it used to be 4, and it's now 3. Success_factor is 1 if the combine is successful, 2 if it's a failure. Obviously, for Solstice Robes we rather have 2 failed attemps than a successful one, but failing is still a serious impediment to skilling up.

    Assuming Stat = 355 (/wave casters), success means automatic success (P1 = 114%), failure gives a chance of passing the check equal to 56,7%.

    The second check is

    P2 = 100 - (Skill / 2), in percentage, below skill 190, and P2 = 5% above.

    I'm only interested here in skilling up from 200, so the second check is always 5%.

    2. Successful combine

    To determine the rate of success at each skill level I use the following formula (from the F.A.Q.):

    S = (Skill - (Trivial * 0.75)) + 51.5 rounded up.

    According to the TS UI the trivial for the robe is 335, which leads to a success rate of 0% at 200 and 50% at 250. I have assumed a minimum chance of success of 3%. It doesn't impact much the total cost of skilling up anyway.

    Knowning the average chance of succeeding a combine, and the skillup rate of both successes and failures, I estimated the average number of combines to skillup at each level by making a linear combination of the 2 percentages:

    P = (100 * Success_ratio) + (56,7 * Failure_Ratio).

    Success_ratio is 0.03 at skill 200, 0.5 at skill 250. Failure_ratio = 1 - Success_Ratio.

    Then, I assumed an average number of combine per skill level of

    C = (100 / P) * 20. The factor 20 comes from the second check of 5% chance of skilling up.

    Application to a few levels:

    200 to 201 C = (100 / (100 * 0.03 + 56,7 * 0.97)) * 20 = 34
    249 to 250 C = (100 / (100 * 0.5 + 56,7 * 0.5)) * 20 = 26

    Second of all, the cost of combines

    I have simulated the best case, assuming the silk is farmed, and all vendor components are bought at the best price. I have assumed access to a cleric or druid of Tunare to imbue Emeralds for free, and to an enchanter with JCM3 and 240+ skill in JC with geerlock to enchant the silver and combine the chains with the best success rate (75%).

    The assumption about best prices and silk farming is pretty safe, I find silk very easy to farm compared to most other tailoring components.
    The availability of Imbued Emerald is more problematic, but it's only a 29 spell so leveling up an alt to make them is realistic.
    The biggest assumption is certainly access to a JCM3 enchanter. It also has a huge impact on the total cost of skilling up to 250 if you make chains yourself or worse, buy them at a high price.
    However, for enchanters, getting to 240 JC is easy (can be done in a few hours with 10 to 20k) and JCM3 is not that big of a deal for a high-level character. It certainly takes less time to xp for 18 AA than farming Rockhopper hides by the thousand, and can even be very profitable in the long run, if there is a market for chains.

    I assumed a failure rate of 3% for all sub-combines (except Silk), so here are my figures:

    Imbued Emerald..............13,649
    Celestial Essence............1,701
    Jar of Acid.....................0,105
    Blessed Dust of Tunare...15,919
    Silk swatch....................0,000
    Sacred Tunare Silk.........16,396
    Emerald........................13,649
    Ruby...........................131,250
    Sapphire......................105,000
    Enchanted Silver Bar.........0,525
    Small Piece of Ore............0,052
    Metal Bits.......................0,114
    Water Flask.....................0,010
    Worked Silver Chain..........0,649
    Gem Studded Chain.......334,064
    Tunic Pattern..................0,052

    Total cost of success.....383,305
    Total cost of failure.........49,241
    Resale value...................14,686

    I assumed all robes are sold to vendors. On my server, the bazaar price is like 30pp (!!!).

    Here is the progression chart for skilling up. I only show it by increment of 5, the full progression chart, along with all formulas is available in this xls file. You can download it and make your own simulation if you want.

    Skill....Combines......Success.....Fail..........T otal....Cost per combine...Total
    200........34.............1............33......... ...2028.............59..............2028
    205........34.............2............32......... ...2216.............65.............12452
    210........33.............3............29......... ...2660.............81.............24877
    215........32.............5............27......... ...3075.............97.............39432
    220........31.............6............24......... ...3461............113.............55976
    225........30.............7............22......... ...3823............129.............74378
    230........29.............9............20......... ...4163............145.............94522
    235........28............10............18......... ...4482............161............116301
    240........27............11............16......... ...4782............177............139618
    245........26............12............14......... ...5066............193............164386
    249........26............13............13......... ...5281............206............185190

    So, according to this chart, in the best case the cost to skill up to 250 is of the order of 185Kpp. Skilling up to 211 and 212 can be done with Ethereal Silk Swatch, so 2660pp + 2745pp must be substracted from that, for a grand total of 180Kpp.

    More interesting is the cost per combine. It helped me realize that, in the bazaar, any component sold for 200pp or more wasn't worth the money.

    For instance, Flawless Rockhopper Hide sells for 300pp on my server. Add to that the cost of Acrylia Ore and I'm better off selling my own hides and making robes (end product market is dead, of course ).
    Last edited by Niphreedil; 05-03-2004, 06:37 PM.
    Niphreedil ~ Shadows of Doom ~ Antonius Bayle

  • #2
    Originally posted by Niphreedil
    ...The first check is

    P1 = (Stat - 15) / (Skill_difficulty * Success_factor * 10), in percentage, )capped at 100%.

    Stat is the highest stat between your wis and int (there is no other relevant stat). Skill_diffuculty is a factor specific to the skill it applies to. For tailoring it used to be 4, and it's now 3. Success_factor is 1 if the combine is successful, 2 if it's a failure. Obviously, for Solstice Robes we rather have 2 failed attemps than a successful one, but failing is still a serious impediment to skilling up.

    Assuming Stat = 355 (/wave casters), success means automatic success (P1 = 114%), failure gives a chance of passing the check equal to 56,7%....
    I don't get it. if my stat is 355 then your formula says (355-15)/(3*2*10)=340/60=5.67% for failures and ... 11.4% for successes. Aren't you off by a factor of ten?
    /auc WTB potion of lag resistance. PST.

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    • #3
      The formula was mistyped. It's:

      P=(Stat*10)/(Diff * SF)

      Where Stat is the highest of WIS/INT/Secondary or WIS/INT-15, Diff is the difficulty (2,3,4), and SF is 2 if fail, 1 if success (we know all this). A roll from 1-1000 is taken after that, and if the roll is lower than P, you succeed that check

      So ((355-15)*10)/(3*SF)= 566.667 for a failure and 1133.33 for a success.

      Divide P by 1000 for the percentage chance and you get .56667 for a failure (56.67%) or 1.13333 (113.33%) for a success. Since it's capped at 100%, you automatically make that check on a success.

      [VxM]

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      • #4
        I get a 'no page found'on the link
        Rasper Helpdesk

        Atlane's Appendix

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        • #5
          Fixed the formula and the link.
          Niphreedil ~ Shadows of Doom ~ Antonius Bayle

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          • #6
            For instance, Flawless Rockhopper Hide sells for 300pp on my server. Add to that the cost of Acrylia Ore and I'm better off selling my own hides and making robes (end product market is dead, of course).
            Ive found this also - At 203 skill using CSRs from 188 i descided to switch to what i though would be less costly (given the amount of successes i was expecting to get at this stage) - after 6 days of farming othmirs and bazaar farming for ribbons, words, and rockhopper hides i decided (at 212 skill) to try another 200 combines of robes. - it cost me 30ish (made 60, failed about half) gem studded chains but i did manage to get to 224 skill in one evening- now i would like to get to 240 skill but at this sort of success rate im thinking it may bankrupt me.

            Moving onto Rockhopper hides without actually farming the components is just totally cost ineffective AND time ineffective - the prices in Bazaar needs to come down and the comunity needs to make others aware that these prices are way too high.

            "You don't just go around punching people. You have to say something cool first!"
            - Joe Hallenbeck, The Last Boy Scout.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Drakh
              Moving onto Rockhopper hides without actually farming the components is just totally cost ineffective AND time ineffective - the prices in Bazaar needs to come down and the comunity needs to make others aware that these prices are way too high.
              Well, I would certainly agree that, in order for them to be cost effective, they have to be time ineffective However, I am making a small profit from acrylia reinforced items and did the same when I will skilling up on acrylia studded. Yes, figure 300-350 pp for the pelts, plus maybe 100-150 for the acrylia. Final cost is around 450. I price my boots at 650 and the gloves at 600 and usually sell a couple pairs of each a week. Now, if I have a bad run of fails, I do lose pp but thats usually made up by the next time the RNG blesses me. Its extremely slow going but I love the thought that I'm making something that is actually useful for the community in general and my bank in particular

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              • #8
                What server do you play on?

                On Bristlebain you are lucky to get 50p for any of the reinforced rockhopper stuff.
                Caralon Captiosa
                65th Enchanter
                Claw of Nagafen

                Friend to Aid Grimel and all around crafter

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                • #9
                  On Tarew, the studded hopper items go pretty high for some pieces. Legs, Chest and Cloak are the highest, and I've seen them from 800-1K.

                  I think it might have something to do with the fact that the popularity of making studded and reinforced acrylia items has dropped in favor of ribbons and solstice robes. There's less of them around to fill up the market, so they go for more.

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                  • #10
                    This is great information. I realized I could probably save some money when I saw how much I was spending doing platinum ribbons (and buying the dye components). I've done two stacks of combines now. With 4 skillups and one robe made! Ahead of the curve, but I'm sure the RNG will come back to get me. I bought the chain so I payed a premium for it, but I'm still at about 70pp per combine. And now I'm beyond ribbons anyways.
                    Qralt Trademaster
                    Knights of Freedom
                    65 Wizard

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