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**Meirril** · 06-02-2003, 07:14 PM

By definition, swirling shadows are worthless.

Yes, worthless. Vendors won't have anything to do with them.
However, players place a value on them and that value varries with the server. On Fennin Ro shadows go for a very lucritive 50pp each. With only 1 stack of swirling shadows you could equip a new character quite nicely, with 3 stacks you could even buy a Wurmslayer and a decent set of armor. Shadow Scream armor isn't even offered for sale, its considered worthless.

Now lets take Stromm server. There shadows go for about 2pp, 1pp from the truely desperate, and 5pp from the insaine. I haven't checked the prices of Shadow Scream armor there, but I'd feel that they would be fairly high as the armor is quite nice considering the alternatives and the DEMAND for any kind of decent armor.

Now all of that taken aside, I've given away about 10 stacks of swirling shadows on Fennin Ro to close friends that have been working towards becomming GM smiths. Helping someone out and having them appreciate your efforts is worth far more than the 10kpp I could of made with those shadows. Later on when I need something they'll remember how good of a friend I've been and I'll get what I need.

So my honest opinion? Yeah, your newb friend blew it. He didn't get the fat plat from selling the shadows, and he lost your friendship. If he apologizes I'd do him some little favors (like a few combines, dosen't cost you anything), but he wouldn't get much of my time or introductions from me. Both of those can't be bought with plat, and their worth alot.

**Reflan** · 06-02-2003, 09:59 PM

He liked the deal enough to make it with you TWICE, and then he complains he's being ripped off?

What an imbecile.

**motarjafal** · 06-03-2003, 06:46 AM

price on Saryrn...

Hiya, posted something on Saryrn marketplace forum regarding the price of swirling shadows...
Prices go there from 50 to 150pp each (you're not dreaming!!)...When you see a vendor carrying about 200+ ss at 150pp each, you realize it's just a waste of ingredients...
If prices went down to about 25pp maximum, vendors could start making a profit from smiths too bored camping swirling shadows.
I happened to talk to nice people (starting players maybe) in shadeweaver's ticket, and told them there's a way to make money from leather paddings... You have all you need in this zone to make some paddings (shadeling silks and rockhopper hides)...The good thing is lesser shades drop BOTH shadeling silks and Swirling shadows, and Hides are quite common from hoppers... Propose to help these people by converting MQ rockhopper hides into LQ ones (or offer them a skinning knife

), also give them shadeling silks. In exchange, some will gradly give you the swirling shadows...
Making hunting friends this way can make you save a lot of pp if you don't like camping too much... having a new friend tailor help you getting the swirling shadows at a faster rate and for free can help

...

your patience has improved (250) !!!

**kiztent** · 06-03-2003, 08:03 AM

Originally posted by Meirril

By definition, swirling shadows are worthless.

Yes, worthless. Vendors won't have anything to do with them.

While that's some nice rhetoric, it's also wrong. Swirling shadows sell to vendors now, and can be bought for 6 gold each if I remember right

Originally posted by Meirril

However, players place a value on them and that value varries with the server. On Fennin Ro shadows go for a very lucritive 50pp each. With only 1 stack of swirling shadows you could equip a new character quite nicely, with 3 stacks you could even buy a Wurmslayer and a decent set of armor. Shadow Scream armor isn't even offered for sale, its considered worthless.

I've never seen shadows for sale, but I have heard someone offering 50pp each for them.

It seems a reasonable price (using my cheaper than sickles to skill up on metric). So, yes, you ripped him off. But no, he had no right to complain. It's not like you are on Sullon and threatened to CC him if he didn't hand the shadows over. I can understand why he might be angry about what you did, but you DID offer him the option to hand back the armour and take the shadows. He should've taken it and sold them himself.

**Kradlum** · 06-03-2003, 08:04 AM

I paid 25pp max for Shadows on AB, unless I was really, really desperate for a few more to complete a run. BTW now Shadows are not no-rent vendors do buy them. I occasionally got lucky and found a few on vendors.

**KyrosKrane** · 06-03-2003, 08:11 AM

On Veeshan, I occasionally find Swirling Shadows on vendors. I put them up for sale at 100pp each. They sell overnight.

/shrug

I guess folks are willing to pay more for convenience.

**burnttoastv** · 06-03-2003, 09:10 AM

Yep, convenience if the price tag. I paid 20p for some and 50p per last night on Drinal just so I can try around 50 combines of the stuff. Haven't tried shadow scream since a little before blue diamond armor came out so figured I would give it a try again after hollowshade was 'fixed'.

Farming hollowshade proved easier then I thought. But when I went to farm in shadeweavers there were already farmers there way below my lvl. There was no way I was going to take even a small part of the corner where they spawn regularly from an iksar smith with a skill of 196 and no last name (assuming he was sub 20) because I remember what smithing at that lvl was like.

So I could group in zones to get swirling shadows with my limited time or just do a few full mithril combines, sell the results, and buy the rest of the shadows I need so I can spend most of my time doing that hammer and anvil quest over and over again every time I get forgetful about doing combines in the forge.

Already tried farming shadows in Twilight Sea, the shades are too magic resistant for me to take out and are way underconned. For the moment paying 50p per seems alright to me because I'm building to get more combines for the plat then I can with blue diamond. But then at 240 skill I'm not that dedicated to getting to 250 and am just experimenting with shadowscream.

**Dunthor Warsmith** · 06-03-2003, 09:33 AM

To me, its a simple issue: You offered a deal. He can accept it or reject it, as he likes. The plat value in the baz for a full 13 piece suit of Shadowscream is somewhere around 700pp probably, if you have a lot of patience. The plat value of the 55 swirling shadows is around 5500pp in the bazarr, no idea of the time involved (I've seen them for sale, never bought). Figures are from Tunare.

The bazaar takes time. You're offering him a specific product *now* in exchange for the shadows, not some quantity of plat as some indetermined future time, while he has to sit there waiting in /trader mode. For some, plat now at little/no inconvience is worth it, for others, the greater rewards for sitting in the baz is worth it.

I don't know if that's real logic or rationalization. Virtually all tradeskill supplies that can be used for skillup have prices that far exceed the value of the finished product. I still offer 1-2pp for Swirling shadows in auction whenever I go farming them, and occasionally get a few bites from very happy newbies. Occasionally someone complains I don't offer enough, and I simply don't buy from them.

I agree with Mierrel personally. He could've gotten a good reputation with you, or a lot of plat. He managed to get himself neither. I think you handled the situation very well, allowing him to take the armor for the agreed upon shadows, or give back the armor. I know I personally *hate* making a deal, investing resources inefficiently to fill the order (ie making pieces other than 1orb/2shadow ones), and then getting told "sorry, no I changed my mind".

**EchtelionFV** · 06-03-2003, 10:04 AM

How much should you pay for a swirling shadow? easy to calculate.

First, know how long it takes you to get a stack. Probably an hour. Now find out how much money you can get in an hour. I can get usually around 300pp at my season (52 Paladin). So if we dont take into account the potential XP gain, paying 15pp per shadow would be fair for me.

BUT, I gain experience as while farming cash, not to mention that it's much less boring than farming endless greens, so probably my 'fair' price is 20-25pp per shadow or less.

The problem is, there is lvl 65 people doing the same thing, and they easily yield 1.000pp/hour. That's what makes the current market price 50pp, so it's very rare to get them at a price convenient to 'lowbies' like me. That's life!

**Mahlig** · 06-03-2003, 10:09 AM

Well, a set of shadowscream may take 50-55 Shadows, however, the end product is *not* as valuable as the pieces involved. Shadowscream is a skillup venue, not good armor. He made a poor deal to give you the shadows for the armor, but he *did* make the deal. However, being the paladin I am (yes, I have a 54 paladin), I would have informed him that his attitude towards me has forced me to go kill them myself and screw him out of any profit. /shrug I don't need anyone to do what I can do myself. So I would go out there and kill them all and make my own humming orbs. I am in no hurry to get to 250. =)

**Grymbok** · 06-03-2003, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by KyrosKrane

On Veeshan, I occasionally find Swirling Shadows on vendors. I put them up for sale at 100pp each. They sell overnight.

/shrug

I guess folks are willing to pay more for convenience.

The fact that Kyrostrader shows up in the same search as the 2-3 people always in the Veeshan Bazaar selling multiple stacks of shadows for 200pp probably helps drive a few sales your way

**Monodon** · 06-03-2003, 06:17 PM

Thanks fo the input guys. I guess the thing I forgot to mentionis that the armor was for him to use, and not for him to sell. And honestly, for a player brand new to the game shadowscream armor is pretty **** good. THe problem is that as servers grow, lower lvls see the higher lvl armor and the higher lvls get used to a certain caliber of armor, telling newbies that lower lvl armor sucks. With a lvl 14 main, most peeps can't do better and are more likely to be outfitted in leather with no stats or newbie quest armor, which higher lvls will once again tell then is crap.
I have lvled my froggy shaman from 5 to 29 in shadowscream and can honestly say that it is in fact decent for the level. The stats, while they look small next to higher end gear like heraldic and acrylia, are well suited to lower lvls.

I guess basically I feel that he knew what he was getting. He was well aware of the bazaar price for shadows prior to striking the deal. He told me they were worth 40 pp, which is what they were selling for on CT at the time. THey have since jumped to 60 to 100 pp (last few days), but I still see the same vendors with all their stock so they aren't really selling much at this price. He specifically asked for the armor and I delivered. It's not as though I told him the shadows were only worth 5 pp or something.

As well, I feel the need to point out that he was informed ahead of time that he would have access to my services for free when he lvled a little and could get the ingredients for higher lvl armor. Access to a high lvl smith at no cost is far more valuable inthe long run than 55 swirling shadows. The materials for a 3 BD combine generally run me about 1500 pp on ct. so even if I fail three times the BP is only costing 4500 pp rather than the 12k they would have to pay otherwise.

I hope I don't sound defensive. I do realize that I asked for your opinions and really appreciate the new points of view. I especially appreciate the lack of Flamers. :P

Thanks all

Diodon
52 paly
225 smithing + 5% (geerlock)

**Kradlum** · 06-04-2003, 03:09 AM

I also think Shadowscream is undervalued. It is great twinking armour, since the relatively high amount of DEX on it means melee skills rise quickly and the twink does not suffer from the detrimental effects of having armour way to high for their level. I kitted my shaman out in a full set as soon as he was born, then changed the chest and legs to acrylia chain while I was skilling up on that, and now he has full crimson darksplint at lvl 29.

I used to make a mix of Shadowscream items while I was skilling up. When my packs were full I would head down to Oggok and give it away to newbies (not that there were often newbies there), and then to Greater Faydark if I had any left over.

**KyrosKrane** · 06-04-2003, 06:43 AM

Originally posted by Grymbok

The fact that Kyrostrader shows up in the same search as the 2-3 people always in the Veeshan Bazaar selling multiple stacks of shadows for 200pp probably helps drive a few sales your way

/boggle

Whoa. I'll have to check my pricing more carefully. I tend to set prices once then ignore them for a couple of weeks. When I first found swirling shadows, there were none in the bazaar; when I checked later, I found them for 75-125. I figured 100 was fair and set it at that.

I'll have to go back and see if my prices really are that far from the bazaar average. :?

Thanks for the heads-up.

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Value of Swirling Shadows

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