Hell Levels

[Harlye Hawgwylde]

Hello All,
This is my first post, so if these questions have been answered, please direct me to the proper location. Okay, with that said, I am now a level 195 smith, using 5% geerlok, doing combines of shadowscream, and when i can get the bloods, Tae Ew shields and armor. At 193, I tried 17 combines and made 3 Tunics and 1 Boot, and raised to 195, which shocked the hell out of me, since at 188 (which I believe to be a hell level), it took me 107 combines to level. I always have my strength and dex maxxed using my 61 shaman dex/str buffs, followed by HoS (why does it let me stack those two, while Focus doesnt....sssshhh...dont tell Verant in case they made a mistake!) and then capped with Voice of the Beserker. Wisdom is at 221 to 246, depending if i can find someone to KEI me.

1) Knowing that 188 is usually a hell level, can the GM smiths tell us which levels they found to be slow, in hopes of identifying other "troublesome" levels?

2) Lets assume a level IS a hell level...say 213 as just an example. If, by using the geerlok, i am at 213, would it be better to NOT wear the geerlok, get out of 195, and then the next level, put it back on, thus, (HOPEFULLY!!) avoiding those spots that take inordinate and assinine amounts of combines?

Thanks for your help thru this board, and thanks Naomi for the time you spend. Having been a silent lurker (?leech), I have finally "come out of the closet"!

Harlye Hawgwylde
level 61 Shaman
Terris Thule server, Hale Ohana guild

[kiztent]

Hell levels are an artifact of the RNG. If there is a low chance to skill up on a given combine, it is likely that there will be a run where there is no skill up for a long time. There are not individual levels as such that have lower chance to skill up.

188 is considered a "hell level" because it's when the ability to get the materials for skill ups goes down. But it's no more or less likely to require over 100 combines than any other skill level.

[AmerygnMT]

Kiztent's comments notwithstanding, I seem to recall from the work done by Evilsofa and others last year that there were some areas with very definite spikes in # of attempts / skillup. These weren't universal nor tied to an exact skill level, but it was certainly apparent that many people experienced runs of 100+ combines between skill-ups at several points. IF memory serves, there was a stretch in the high 180s and another in the 210s. These really jumped out when graphed.

Yes, yes, I know the sample size isn't really big enough to draw these conclusions from the statistics. However, the spikes in the graphs tended to correspond with the anecdotal experiences I've seen reported over the last two years.

Try poking around in the General Tradeskills forum, I think there may be a thread about this somewhere there.

Amerygn

[Harlye Hawgwylde]

Thanks Kiztent and Amerigyn.

I would have to agree with Amerigyn, as I was making Shadowscream before 188, and after, and that is where the blurp came. My ability to get the material had no effect, as I had farmed Hollowshade extensively, being a level 61 shaman. And I have checked with other smiths (5-8, a small sample), but ALL of them had the same horrendous luck at 188...the range being 81 to 123 combines.

Also...does the trivial level of the item you are making have an effect on how fast you skill up? i.e., doing 20 combines of a triv 224 level you slower than 20 combines of a +250??

[kiztent]

So people can have one or more hell levels in the upper 180s and through 220 or so? We know that. That doesn't mean that, say, 195 is a hell level or 198 or 203 or any other individual level. A hell level will strike in the areas that have significantly lower chances to skill up. This range is known, and this range is 190-220. The question posed was about SPECIFIC, INDIVIDUAL skill levels that are hell levels. There aren't any.

If you believe that successes lead to skill ups, it's better to skill up on something you will be successful more often at. I believe that successes are more likely to yield skill ups.

How much the increased success from a geerlok will offset the loss of wis/str/int which results in faster skill ups as well has not been studied.

[Calabar]

Trying to answer specific questions about the nature of trade skills is almost like asking specific questions about the nature of the life, the universe and everything. And 42 not withstanding, it’s not an easy question to answer. When it comes to hell levels, the most we have to work with is observations. And needless to say, most people’s observations tend to be anything but unbiased. From the posts I’ve reads over the years, most people tend to hit a trade skill wall somewhere between 190 and 210, give or take a few points. Then things tend to level out a bit. But sometimes people will slam head first into another wall just before reaching 250. But these are broad generalizations. Your actual experiences may greatly differ.

For example, my druid took brewing to 200. He never hit a single wall. Aside from the pain in the wrist that’s known as Minotaur Hero's Brew, everything went smoothly. I just GMed brewing with my shaman and it was a different story. It took him over 200 combines to advance from 191 to 192 and then it took him 180 combines to go from 248 to 249. And then just 9 combines to go from 249 to 250. So you just never know.

There are all kinds of rumors bouncing around the boards as to what will help you gain skill points. Are any of them true? Nobody really knows. My philosophy is that if you can easily do it and feel it might help, then go for it. If you can buff your own stats, afford KEI and have a path that allows you to trivial items close to your current skill level then what the heck, it can’t hurt. But I’ll tell you the true secret of gaining points in any trade skill and that’s to be pig headedly stubborn and never give up. If you hit a wall just keep beating and clawing at it until it either falls down or you manage to climb over it. Eventually the points will come.

[Koner]

Hey Harlye I'm the cleric from Harlequin Smile who ressed you in CT a few nights back. I've been trapped at 195 skill for 263 attempts now. I hope you have better luck than me. On a lighter note I've make 5 Tae Ew tunic in 12 attempts and 2 shields in 3 attempts. Not bad success rate in my opinion. I'm just hoping to break this string of bad luck and skill up soon.

[Koner]

Hey Harlye I'm the cleric from Harlequin Smile who ressed you in CT a few nights back. I've been trapped at 195 skill for 263 attempts now. I hope you have better luck than me. On a lighter note I've make 5 Tae Ew tunic in 12 attempts and 2 shields in 3 attempts. Not bad success rate in my opinion. I'm just hoping to break this string of bad luck and skill up soon.

[Amenarra]

I have known a few people who hit a wall at 191.

I personally needed over 350 combines to get from 191 to 192

I attribute this to RNG being a b*tch goddess.

[Kradlum]

I got from 188-189 in 1 combine, so no hell level there for me.

I am starting to believe that attempting higher trivial combines leads to more skill-ups, but it is really just superstition. At skill 222, STR 255 and no geerlok I got 3 skill-ups in 148 attempts on Shadowscream (mixed bracers, gorget and boots), with about 95% success rate. From skill 225, STR 250 with geerlok, I got 3 skillups in 20 attempts at Crimson Darkscale (mixed bracer, visor, gorget, boots), with a 25% success rate.