Bad to sell Barb Cultural armor Dirt cheap??

[Zhorn]

Facing a bit of a dilema here...

After I'd got my 8th shawl, I decided it'd be cool to do smithing so I could make a friends shaman a bunch of Barb Cultural Chain (how long could it possibly take to go from 188 to 240....! haha)

Took me 7 weeks or so to get from 188 skill to mod 248 (225+10%).
Got the +10% after i'd hit 212 so no easy extra Ethereal brick skill ups for me! Also gained no exp during those 7 weeks except on Raids!!

Now I REALLY like the idea of people running around in MY armor (particually shamans as I always like to help fellow shammies out!).

The current prices of Artificers on my server is kinda limiting lots of people from buying it though (3 active barbarian smiths on Tribunal atm).
Typically its 5kpp to 7500pp PER infused ring. So 5k to 7500pp per bracer, 10k to 15kpp for belts/arms/helm and 15 to 20kpp for Leggings.

So I am thinking "What the Hell, I'll drop the prices to 2 or 3kpp per Ring".
Thus allowing LOTS of shaman to have good armor.

Besides, I make good money on Tae Ew gear so I dont need the plat from the VERY small barb cultural market anyway.

[Zeralenn]

Sounds like a great way to get the other barbarian smiths on your server royally cheesed at you.

Problem with that strategy is that people get used to the vastly lower prices and no one will buy from the other smiths.

It's called "undercutting", and whether your motivations are good or bad, the other smiths will not love you for it.

...Zera

[Zhorn]

Hmm... If I did free combines I would not be undercutting anyone?

[Zeralenn]

Sort of depends on how it's handled. If you're selling lots of dirt cheap high cultural armor in the bazaar people are gonna get mad, because it probably means that they won't be able to sell theirs at anything close to prices that make sense for them (not everyone has the luxury of cash reserves). If, however, you approach people and let them know privately, that's probably okay.

Hey, I am not saying whether I think what you are going is right or wrong. I do cultural armor for cost for guildies and friends too. But I don't sell my armor for cost in the bazaar.

...Zera

[Meirril]

Guess it comes down to whether you care about the others barb smiths on your server. If you don't want any competition, price the barb cultural low. If you want to encourage others to make barb cultural as well, price it high.
Personaly, I've waffled on my opinion. While I don't think I need to make a fortune off of every piece, I've seen people undercut things till they arn't worth making any more. When that happens, the market crashes and that one person stops making stuff. Then none of it is available till someone realizes whats happened, and everyone bitches because the "reasonable" price you set isn't what it was down to.

Oh, and I can't think of any reasonable person that would say anything bad about you giving the stuff away to friends and guildmates.

[Zhorn]

Good point yes there is a big diffence between people doing it for guildies/friends and the general public.

[Bennan]

Hmmm interesting post, I am not going to tell you what you should or shouldn't do, but;

I think you need to consider your reasons why you will/won't do this.

You posted that you don't need the money.

You also posted that one of your goals is to help out Shaman.

Another is to see your gear on other people (big EGO trip, but thats one I share I call it pride in ones work).

*Free combines* for friends/guildmates etc, imo, are good and nobody should begrudge you or anyone doing that.

Free combines for strangers is not good, what are you going to do/feel when you see one of these strangers selling the stuff you made for them for *free*. It also keeps the hand-out mentality going, and diminishes the status/value/importance of being a 250 Smith. Something I feel should be protected, and or cultivated.

Do you know who these other Barb Cultral smiths are ? Remember chances are they went through alot of pain to get themselves into a position to make this kind of gear, just like you.

Well theres some food for thought.

[Saleani]

In my opinion, dropping the prices as significantly as you are describing will "crash the market" on your server. The end result will be that you will be the only barbarian smith making cultural at all. I have seen a number of 250 tradeskillers just walk away from tradeskilling when the markets get messed up that way on my server. If you do not know that PlayerX is a 250 tailor, you will never find out, if you send them a tell, they want to know who told you (you may end up on /ignore anyway). Some 250 tradeskillers will only make items for other known tradeskillers at this time. Some have quit the game.

I sincerely believe that if a shaman with limited finances approached those other smiths (or even you), they would be able to negotiate some sort of deal that still left the smith with reason to make the gear, and the shaman to acquire gear they desire/need.

There is a Buddhist expression which comes across like "thou shalt not break thy neighbors rice bowl." Which means something like you should not do something to deprive your neighbor of a living.

[magiced3]

This sort of attitude is the part I hate about EQ. Those other smiths worked hard to get to that level and you are going to ruin the market because you feel like it.
What’s next? Bully your way into a camp because your shammie friend needs that loot.
Ever hear of the Golden Rule?

[gabantik]

But is it really worth 5k a ring?

Let's look at it another way. Is it still worth what it used to be worth?

On my server, Tae Ew Chain Tunics are down under 20k now.

Tae Ew Chain Tunic
MAGIC ITEM
Slot CHEST
AC 45
STR +5 DEX +5 STA +8 WIS +11 AGI +8 HP +50 MANA +50
SV FIRE +5 SV DISEASE +5 SV COLD +5 SV MAGIC +5 SV POISON +5
Required level of 51.
WT 5.0 Size MEDIUM
Class RNG ROG SHM
Race ALL

Perhaps 9-10k is a reasonable price for this

Artificer's Ringmail Tunic
MAGIC ITEM
Slot CHEST
AC 30
STA +5 WIS +10 HP +40 MANA +40
Recommended level of 45.
WT 3.0 Size LARGE
Class ROG SHM
Race BAR
Deity The Tribunal

Perhaps the 'going rate' is too high. After all, BDs cost 300pp now, not 2000.

[Segal]

Basically you will trash the market for other smiths and devalue not only their work but your own. Take a situation like my own, where our tradeskillers are the sole source of income for a small guild (total of 19 people). We rely almost entirely on the cash flow generated by a smith, potter, and jeweler to outfit our members. Without the ability to sell tradeskill items at a reasonable profit, our guild would be severly hampered to improve since we do not have the people or desire to focus on raiding.

The biggest threat to the viability of tradeskills is not people gouging for materials, but other smiths lowballing that market into obscurity. Tae Ew shields sell for 12k on our server and are dropping fast because some smiths have no respect for the others on the server. Nightmare Bows sell for under 4k because they destroyed their own market.

Much like you, I made considerable money with Tae Ew Shields and Tunics. I sold over 40 shields before every smith on the server got into the action so I can afford to lowball the lowballers if it comes to that.

[Aanna]

In reply to Gabantik, naturally prices in this sort of economy tend to deflate over time. As you pointed out, even without undercutting by other smiths, gradually the dropped armors will become cheap enough that people would rather buy the dropped armor than the now relatively higher priced smithed armor.

Of course smithed armor prices need to change with the times, but if it weren't for undercutting this would be a gradual thing.

Here's *my ideal way to determine prices for smithed items:

1. become familiar with the dropped armors out there
2. find one or two other dropped items that have similar stats to what you're making
3. price your smithed armor to the same range as that comparable dropped armor
4. if you find your armor isn't selling at all after a week or so try dropping your price by 5-10%
5. occasionally check on the comparable armors to make sure your prices still make sense in the overall marketplace

[Boleslav]

Tae Ew stuff will continue to drop in price because the blood drops so frequently. Also, you don't need to have as high of a skill to be successful with Tae Ew combines. The awailabiliy of Tae Ew and even Night Terror chain is putting downward pressure on all chain class armor, even in the slots where the Tae Ew armor is bad in some cases. There is little control any individual smith can exert on the market for these as the components are readily available and the skill to make them is not prohibitive.

Artificer's chain will not be that available unless you choose to make it so. There are only a few smiths who can make it reliably on any given server. Some of the pieces are very good. Don't devalue the entire line of this armor on your server lightly. Do your research, follow prices for competing armor, talk to your fellow Barbarian smiths and then settle on a price that respects the market and your sensibilities.

Of course you will give deals to your friends and guild, but that doesn't mean you have to put the low prices on a billboard for everyone to see.

Boleslav Forgehammer
Paladin of Brell in his 60th Campaign
E'ci - Destiny Awaits

[Perseverence Rewarded]

I just can't get over how people constantly piss and moan about how others are selling for cheaper then them and they aren't making the money they used too. It's called business. You provide a product to consumers. Consumers either buy or not. If a product is priced to high than sales are slow but profits are large. If a product is priced low than sales are large and profits are lower per item but bulk sales makes up the profit margin. You see this everyday in RL. These are the 2 ways retailers make money and Tradeskillers are retailers. If someone sells a product for cheaper than you they will sell more than you and make a similar or greater profit. If however a trader sells a product for cheaper than the cost of the items used to make the product they are "undercutting" and it is punishable in RL(but not in EQ). So if someone sells something for cheaper than you, don't get your panties in a bunch IF it is for more than the cost of components. Lower your prices to match and make more of the items to sell. Supply and demand is the governing force of a free market. Either compete or give up.
I hate to sound so harsh but it is a realistic approach to being a successful trader. Cut throat tactics are a way of life if you are after $$$$. If you are in it for ego or prestige than prices are, or should be, irrelevant to you. If you are after $$$$ than do what it takes to earn it.

/em Duck and cover!

[BrewtPhorce]

Perserverence, one problem with that attitude... with things like food or drinks where things are used up and people buy in bulk, that is a viable option... when it takes hours to make an item, and thousands of pp, it gets to be a different situation... and on high level armor, dropping your prices doesn't mean you'll sell more, at least not in my experiences. Armor tends not to be used up like that, and therefore there isn't a really huge demand for it.

To make a comment on Tae Ew, be glad it's still close to 20k, on prexus it's around 10k.

Zhorn, my situation is thus, when putting items in bazaar, I usually will have 4-5k per ring, depending on the item/class/deities. However I'm always open to people catching me and negotiating a better deal... I tend to give very nice discounts on large purchases. But I refuse to change my baz prices to what I will take, as it saves the other armorcrafters trouble by me not undercutting. Do what you want, of course, but that's how I handle it. And I'm like you, in that money isn't a big deal for me, (my girlfriend takes a lot of it now... does it ever change? )

Jonah 250 Human Smith
Brewt 250 Brewer