Drop rate soluable loam and prices.

[Bedazzlerr]

Well on AB the price has hit 500k per items and climbing. ther are very few vendors who ever have sublime as use same components to make the step below. only one trader has and he had as of last night 27 elegant and 8 peiciec of armor. Current prices cost you 8 million plus to get outfitted. Now I have palyed this game a very long time and have never seen anyting close to 2 million let alone 8 million. I am sure the prices are soon to be a million a pop an will go to 16 million to get.

1) Drop rate is stupid as only a chosen few can obtain. How can one get 30+ porous loam let alone have that kind of plat to buy them as currently going for over 300k+ per loam. So he has a minimum of 9 mil plus on trader alone.

2) All this has done is let the plat farmers expand their business and now farm these drops as they can afford it. This is forcing people to buy plat to get their upgrades. The casual/family guild member can not afford these and the warped is going for 350 to 500k per drop depending of the location. Ore prices are super stupid as peopel know you have to have to make armor.

3) Something needs to be done weather it is hard coding a maximum price allowed for something to sell on a server in any mode or what ever. We get constanly spamed to buy plat and if you look on alllah screenshot yesterday it may be funny but that is reality. I get 5 to 10 per evening to buy plat. SOE wants to make money so open a plat shop in baz and shut these guys down. If they cant make real money then prices will fall and again people can flourish. If they cant make real money from selling plat they wil quit farming it and drops.

Flames on) but living in a real world

[Gorse]

The only reason the price is so high is because people keep paying prices for it. The good and bad about a free and uncontrolled market is that people can buy sell at whatever price they want.

There is no right or wrong answer, as your perception may not match the next persons. There's no reason to bash SOE for the prices, they don't control them the players do. What SoE can and does control is the drop rate, which controls the amount of armor in the game, so things are working as intended.

Believe it or not, you can actually still play the game without being a 25K tank or 20K mana pool caster!



Gorse

[Lejax]

I think the drop rates for soluble are just about where they want them -- only in high-end zones. It really does make incredibly awesome armor which lets people almost skip straight to Solteris-level content. It SHOULD be hard to obtain for people who can't get to Solteris the usual way. (I am one of those people; my guild's just getting to Demiplane right now.)

As for the plat farmers, that new spamming campaign has pretty much made that web site the laughingstock of everyone I play with. I don't buy plat (I pay to play EQ; why should I pay to NOT play EQ?), and even if I did, I wouldn't use that site. I am not alone in that assessment.

As for putting a plat seller in the bazaar... that's a great idea if you want to see a zero or two instantly tacked on to EVERY price in the bazaar. If plat selling became condoned, hyperinflation would kick in that would make pre-WWII Germany look like a stable economy by comparison.

I know none of this is what you want to hear. But it's how it is.

[Bedazzlerr]

EQ2 sold plat and prices actually dropped do to the availability. So if that isnt a solution how does some one make 8 million as I am in definately the wrong zones? How does soemone have close to porus loams to turn into armor? My guild is a family guild and is trying to finish PoP, yes you heard em right PoP we arent a high end guild but to keep people we do try to get them their epics etc. To do this our tanks need to hae good armor etc. Well they cant get into Demi etc to get it so player is next best for them, now comes the catch 8 to 10 million plat. I have played this game 6 years, have 2 level 80 toon and a bunch of 70+ as I 2 and 3 box, i have never had more than 600k at one time and taht was due to selling stuff from acrstone the orbs when it came out, I cant raid and dont have the ability to get drops, alot of folks are liek me trust em on this. I seldom do that and with my shaman's potions ususly undersell any there as it rally irks me for people to jack prices up just cause they can. I have even received hate mail and told to up prices as I believe in selling stuff at a fair price, not out to screw my fellow players. When loam was around 200k it was afordable and peopel could get peices at a slower rate, now on our server is seems it be monoplized by 1 to 2 peeps and they now charge 500k per drop. We are our own worst enemies in this as you are right if we didnt pay this then it would drop, problem is with the plat sellers and gear farmers out there we dont stand a fair chance.

That being said soemone please tell me where to go farm to make millions and i promise wont post like this as will be to busy farming. I only need 8 million to finish to my warrior and that is with player made or warped now..

[rahiemabdulazaad]

I'm pretty sure I was wearing elemental armor with a few pieces from Vex Thal when my guild beat PoP.

[Leana]

Well on AB the price has hit 500k per items and climbing. ther are very few vendors who ever have sublime as use same components to make the step below. only one trader has and he had as of last night 27 elegant and 8 peiciec of armor. Current prices cost you 8 million plus to get outfitted. Now I have palyed this game a very long time and have never seen anyting close to 2 million let alone 8 million. I am sure the prices are soon to be a million a pop an will go to 16 million to get.

1) Drop rate is stupid as only a chosen few can obtain. How can one get 30+ porous loam let alone have that kind of plat to buy them as currently going for over 300k+ per loam. So he has a minimum of 9 mil plus on trader alone.

2) All this has done is let the plat farmers expand their business and now farm these drops as they can afford it. This is forcing people to buy plat to get their upgrades. The casual/family guild member can not afford these and the warped is going for 350 to 500k per drop depending of the location. Ore prices are super stupid as peopel know you have to have to make armor.

3) Something needs to be done weather it is hard coding a maximum price allowed for something to sell on a server in any mode or what ever. We get constanly spamed to buy plat and if you look on alllah screenshot yesterday it may be funny but that is reality. I get 5 to 10 per evening to buy plat. SOE wants to make money so open a plat shop in baz and shut these guys down. If they cant make real money then prices will fall and again people can flourish. If they cant make real money from selling plat they wil quit farming it and drops.

Flames on) but living in a real world

1) Drop rates are appropriate where the loams are supposed to drop, namely in T3-T4 zones. Everywhere else, they are rare as the seven year itch.

2) Contrary to a somewhat popular claim by a lot of people, there are *gasp* ways to get money in the game other than buying it from plat farmers.

3) Contrary to another somewhat popular claim, prices in the bazaar are not controlled by the sellers. Prices are controlled by the buyers. You are in direct competition for rare resources with people who have more money and perhaps less sense than you do. Therefore, they are willing to pay more for the items and thereby drive up the prices. For instance, if I see a rare component on sale in the bazaar for anything less than 200k... Therefore, so long as I am in the game, you will have a hard time finding loam for less than 200k. Unfortunately for me, there are people who are willing to pay more for their loam than I am.

[hiyawathadan]

All of you guys mean Porous loam right? Soluble is for Elaborate armor/Eminent symbols?

[Gorse]

3) Contrary to another somewhat popular claim, prices in the bazaar are not controlled by the sellers. Prices are controlled by the buyers. You are in direct competition for rare resources with people who have more money and perhaps less sense than you do. Therefore, they are willing to pay more for the items and thereby drive up the prices. For instance, if I see a rare component on sale in the bazaar for anything less than 200k... Therefore, so long as I am in the game, you will have a hard time finding loam for less than 200k. Unfortunately for me, there are people who are willing to pay more for their loam than I am.

Sellers control the price. Buyers determine if it moves. It's a delicate dance called free market.

My point is that players control the economy, not Sony Online Entertainment and it's rediculous when people post flames on SOE for driving up the prices.



Gorse

[Wynar]

Sellers control the price. Buyers determine if it moves. It's a delicate dance called free market.

My point is that players control the economy, not Sony Online Entertainment and it's rediculous when people post flames on SOE for driving up the prices.

There's one piece to this equation you're missing. Supply & Demand. Players provide the demand, but supply is ultimately driven by the drops, therefore controlled by Sony. With the small supply, the demand for the product(s), either completed armor or the raw loams, inherently drives up the price in the markets.

Until something increases supply (higher drop rates or better farming methods), or something decreases demand (nerf to the armor or a better option becoming available), prices will continue to climb until the price balances the demand. Unfortunately, plat sellers provide more cash availability, allowing that balancing price point to be higher than it would without them.

[Aldier]

There's one piece to this equation you're missing. Supply & Demand. Players provide the demand, but supply is ultimately driven by the drops, therefore controlled by Sony. With the small supply, the demand for the product(s), either completed armor or the raw loams, inherently drives up the price in the markets.

Until something increases supply (higher drop rates or better farming methods), or something decreases demand (nerf to the armor or a better option becoming available), prices will continue to climb until the price balances the demand. Unfortunately, plat sellers provide more cash availability, allowing that balancing price point to be higher than it would without them.

SOE controls the rate at which the items can drop. The playerbase determines the rate at which the items enter the market. If the players are not hunting in the proper places, the items won't be supplied. If the players that are getting the drops don't know thier use (doubtful) or keep them for themselves, that reduces the supply. As long as people are willing to pay the high prices, then the sellers will keep raising the price. When people stop buying them, they will come down.

I agree the problem is too many people have too much plat and the plat selling sites are making a killing off of this.

[Leana]

Sellers control the price. Buyers determine if it moves. It's a delicate dance called free market.

My point is that players control the economy, not Sony Online Entertainment and it's rediculous when people post flames on SOE for driving up the prices.



Gorse

I disagree with you. A product that won't move is a product that no one will buy. If no one will buy it at the offered price, then... in fact... it is exactly as if the product does not exist on the market. If it is going to sell, the seller has to mark down the price until at least one person is willing to purchase the item at the offered price.

If I am trying to sell some rare item and get the very best price I can, I price it over what I think anyone will be willing to pay. Then, over time, I reduce the price until someone is willing to buy it. In this respect, the one buyer that is willing to meet my price is in fact the one that determined the selling price, not me.

If I want to move a product, I have to price it lower and accept that I won't get the best selling price.

*edit*

Let me cover the other end, the buyer. If I am buying a rare item and want to get it at a good price, I set a price for myself that I am willing to pay for the item. If no items are available on the market that meet my constraints, then I have two choices.
1. but one at the asking price
2. wait for an item to come on the market at the price I am willing to pay.

In almost every case, I will choose to wait. If an item never comes on the market that meets my constraints, I may change them, but it's not very likely. You see, I control the buying price if I am a buyer, not the seller.

[Kcalehc]

You control your buying price, not everyone elses; if you choose not to buy and someone else does, you have lost that opportunity. As there are people that can afford the prices charged, its likely that they will remain high, irregardless of your decision to wait.

Porous loams are selling at 500K, or thereabouts, because both seller and buyer are happy with that price; there is an equilibrium. Prices are not controled by either buyer or seller, its a combination.

[Ratblaster]

Cost of Elegant/Sublime

A few notes about cost/availability of Elegant/Sublime:

1. The supply of Porous Loam, Exquisite Spinneret Fluid, and Exquisite Marrow dropped when those items were moved to tier 3/4 only (and ultra-rare in other zones). However, the fact that you no longer see elegant gear and sublime augs cheap (or at all) on traders does not mean it's unavailable. I almost always have a couple each of loam/marrow/spinners in stock..but because that inventory is low, I'm not gonna make a high risk BP in advance and hope that is the one item a buyer wants...what if someone comes looking for wrist and boots and I used my only 2 marrow BP? Same applies to sublime augs...I could use my supply to make sublime augs of justice, but what if someone comes looking for warmonger.....

The result of all this is that the supply is there, but many of the tradeskillers now make the stuff on demand rather than in advance, so its not on traders unless a deal fell thru. In my own case, when I get home from work each day I /ooc in Baz and/or GL that I'm making elegant/sublime/exalted on request. Some days I get tells to make something, some days I dont. And those who missed replying to me in time send tells to place orders for more stuff.

Also, since more players are making stuff on demand, the few who do have inventory in bazaar traders price stuff like they have a monopoly, charging significantly more than you can get from haggling with someone who makes on demand.

2. The cost....The reason armor/sublime often sells for over 400k is because the reduced availability of the 3 key ingredients has those ingredients sellign on traders for 200k-300k. Buyers in baz can usualy get the ingredients for under 200k, but unforunatly we have some peopel playing the margins on resale of these items....players in buyer mode jacking up the price to 230k so that they can turn around and put same drop on trader for 300k. Given that we have about a 25-30% fail rate even with max trophy and must factor in cost of failures combined with the buyer/sellers has raised cost around 100k on these items.

However, most makers of elegant/sublime are happy to take trade of these ingredients instead of plat (i.e. trade 2 exquisite spinnerets for one finished aug....so if you are exp'ing in tier3/4 zones and get these drops, your upgrades are basically free. We also have players with just one drop who ask to make the sublime/elegant for a fee, and many tradeskillers do that also...if they are taking the risk of failure (and you only charge for combine on success), its usually a win/win....buyer gets cheap gear and tradeskiller can get their margin without risking fail. Lately I do more of this than outright selling.

[Leana]

Let me give you an example that happened a few years back. I'm going to put out some numbers as examples, but the details may be different because it was some time ago and my memory may be bad.

A friend of mine was making the halfling haversacks. He would watch the market for tufts of wolf fur. Basically, they sold cheaply, say 25-50pp. I don't remember the price exactly. Someone came into the market and purchased all of the available supply and marked it up to say, 250pp. He would buy any tufts that were cheaper and mark them up. My friend and I laughed at the silliness as more and more tufts came on the market. Soon, everyone was selling their tufts at 200-250pp. My friend even sold his, then he sat back and watched, and laughed.

A couple months went by. The number of tufts on the market went from about 20 on a given day to around 400. People's supplies climbed, and no one did anything.

Then one day, he announced that someone was selling wolf tufts for 150. He said that by the end of the day, he'd get a lot of tufts for very cheap. Someone undercut to 140, then the price war began. Everyone started trying to dump their tufts. By the end of the day, he bought 300+ wolf tufts for 20-25pp.

Now, bear in mind that the prices I posted are from memory and only meant to be examples. There are a few conclusions you can draw from this story.

1. The sellers had no control over the price. They could temporarily force the market high, but they had a high price and no customers.
2. The buyers control when and for what price something sells at. Just because an item is listed for a given price in the bazaar doesn't mean that is what is being paid for those items.
3. Patient buyers can generally get products for a good price, providing that they are patient and they don't have unreal expectations of price.

On our server, the standard price for loam, spinnerets, and marrow is 300k. I've seen a fair number on the bazaar at 500-700k, but there is generally some for sell for 300k. In the last week, I have purchased a loam for 90k and a friend has purchased one for 120k.

Basically, a free enterprice system rewards those people who are patient and watchful. In general, those who want their stuff now, pay for the privilage. Those who are willing to wait and insist on a good price will get it. This works both for buyers and sellers. If your seller expects to sell his stock in a day, he needs to be at the bottom of the price range on selling his items. If he plans for a bigger profit margin and has time, he can price his item in the upper end of the price range and let it sit on the market until someone is willing to pay. However, too high a price and no one will every buy the product.

[Ngreth Thergn]

A few notes about cost/availability of Elegant/Sublime:

1. The supply of Porous Loam, Exquisite Spinneret Fluid, and Exquisite Marrow dropped when those items were moved to tier 3/4 only (and ultra-rare in other zones).

and a note on this note. they were never intended to drop outside of T3/4 zones... so that they did at all was a bug, and removing them was a bug fix. And it was mostly the loam that was dropping in the wrong spots.