FAQ 2: The Dead Horse

[Sinuuyanea Nocturne]

<center><img src="http://www.boomspeed.com/sinuuyanea/deadhorse.gif" alt="118k, may take a moment to load. You'll like it, though...if it doesnt load, refresh."><hr>Welcome to the Dead Horse List: Smithing </center>
The purpose of this FAQ is to stymie those that wish to post their gripes, grievances, and frustrations with various well known issues in Smithing. Basically, this is a list of things we know already and, quite frankly, dont need to hear again. If you feel that you MUST speak on a dead horse topic, please post it in Primal Screams. Please if you post in primal screams on a Dead horse topic, search there to see if there is alread a group surounding the dead horse and kicking it (I.E. a post alread on the subject) <img src="http://www.boomspeed.com/sinuuyanea/dccry.gif" alt="Not this issue AGAIN! That's the tenth time today!">

<b>NOTICE: </b> This list contains issues relavent to <b>smithing</b> only. If a given race/class/deity combination has a tailored armor (or doesnt), or an armor constructed in any other way, it will not be mentioned here.
<hr>
Before reading this, read the http://mboards.eqtraders.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=47FAQ </a> above here. It will answer most of the questions that are answerable, and havent been asked repeatedly.
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<center><a name="top">Navigation</a></center>
#culturalCultural Issues</a>
#noculturalNon-Cultural Issues</a>
#tfaqToo Frequently Asked Questions (TFAQ)</a>
#generalGeneral Smithing Issues and Common Mistakes</a>
#gripeSmithing Gripes</a>
#siteSite Concerns and Reinterations</a>
#temperTemper (and other smithing components) Clarifications</a>
#jackItems not used for smithing</a>
#ripLast Respects: Dead Horses that are laid to rest</a>
#liesThe Den of Lies: Smithing Myths and Misconceptions</a>
#namesThe Name Game: Issues with naming conventions on smithed items and supplies</a>
#howtoMaximize your resources--how to use the main site and message board efficiently</a>
<ul>
#topBack to top</a>
<a name="cultural">
<li>Cultural Disparities--"gaps" in the wearability or manufacture of the various cultural armors.
<ul>
<li>Ogre--Agnostic plate and chain wearers have no Ogre cultural that they can wear, as far as the blue diamond cultural is concerned.
<li>Troll--Agnostic Trolls do not have a cultural armor that they can wear, and dont have a cultural armor that they can smith period.
<li>Iksar--Necromancers do not have a cultural smithed armor that they can wear.
<li>Vah Shir--Cannot wear or make any cultural smithed armor for any class.
<li>Gnome--Does not consider Tinkering "cultural", even though only their race can do it. Does not have a cultural smithed armor that they can make, but can wear Dwarven Cultural. Gnome casters have no cultural smithed armor.
<li>Dark Elves--Agnostic, Solusek Ro, Bristlebane and Rallos Zek followers are limited to the unimbued versions of the cultural armors, or must turn to other cultures (i.e., cant make their own).
<li>High Elves--Agnostic, Solusek Ro, Karana, and Mithaniel Marr followers are limited to the unimbued versions of the cultural armors, or must turn to other cultures (i.e., cant make their own). Likewise, they require a component that is foraged, when no class High Elven classes can forage.
<li>Half Elves--While able to wear several culture's armors, they are unable to make any of their own.
<li>Wood Elves--Have no cultural smithed armors (despite the fact that Wood Elves are considered an earthy, all-natural race) that they can make, and are forced to wear unimbued versions if they do not choose Tunare. In addition, for the few smithing recipes Wood Elves do have, they have to travel to Felwithe to purchase Mithril.
<li>Humans--Bards of Quellious and Bristlebane have no cultural armors that they can wear.
<li>Humans--More specifically, cultures that arent Human--Humans, regardless of starting city, can use both the Freeport and Qeynos Cultural Forges.
<li>Halflings--Bristlebane-worshipping Halflings (namely Clerics and Paladins) cannot smith their own cultural armor.
<li>Barbarians--Non-Tribunal worshipping Barbarians have no Barbarian cultural armor that's wearable by them.
<li>Frogloks--While they have a Gukta forge, they do not have a cultural smithed anything at this time.
<li>Armor Wearability--While Frogloks and Half Elves cannot smith any cultural armors, they are able to wear most cultures armors
<li>All Cultures--Cultural smithed weapons seem to have been ignored or forgotten altogether with the upgrade to blue diamond cultural, with the exception of Troll reworked weapons.
<li>All Cultures--You do NOT need to be the same deity in order to craft a given armor, just the appropriate race.
<li>All Cultures--The Enchanter "Roadblock", where Enchanters are required for most cultural armors. As an addenum to this, despite the fact that it has been stated that the origional cultural armors were designed for levels 30~40, the Enchant: [Steel, Mithril, Brellium, Adamantite] spells are all level 49, and have a high mana cost.
<li>All Cultures--The Priest "Roadblock", where Clerics, Shamen, Druids, and Wizards are needed to create imbued gems.
<li>All Cultures--Cultural, non-caster chainmail is subpar compared to similar crafted plate, non-cultural tradeskilled items, and drops.
</ul>
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<a name="nocultural"></a>
<li>Non-Cultural Disparities--known and repeated issues with non-cultural smithing.
<ul>
<li>Windstones--Still ungodly rare, and very expensive.
<li>Planes of Power--The requirements for any Planar smithed plate-type armor, namely 3~5.5 tempers needed per piece, is unreasonable.
<li>Planes of Power--Each temper for the armors in the Planes of Power zones have a commonly available ingredient, a somewhat rare ingredient, and an ungodly rare ingredient. In some cases (Elemental planes), the rare ingredient <b>only drops off of named creatures, and is their rare drop</b>.
<li>Ornate Chainmail--This armor was obviously designed as a sink, as it isnt desirable to any class.
<li>Cazic-Thule (the zone, not the deity) recipes--While the armors have had their stats greatly upgraded, the items are still unreasonably rare.
<li>Cazic-Thule (the zone, not the deity) recipes--Despite their wearability by all races, the molds needed to craft the armors are <b>always</b> medium-sized.
<li>PoP Weapons--There are no smithed weapons from the Planes of Power.
<li>Non-Visible armors--Whether intentional or an oversight, there are no visors, cloaks, belts, or gorgets for Tae Ew Chain, Tae Ew Plate, any PoP Chain, or any PoP Plate.
</ul>
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<a name="tfaq"></a>
<li>TFAQ--TOO Frequently Asked Questions
<ul>
<li>Illusions and Cultural Smithing--Illusions do not fool the forge, regardless of level, caster, item used.
<li>The Dalnir "Always Works" forge--This forge is designed solely for quests origionating from Cabilis: it is not meant to be used for smithing skillups, cultural armors, other quest armors, weapons, or anything else that hasnt been mentioned, now and retroactively.
<li>NO DROP--Placing a NO DROP item into the forge will make the "DONE" button grey out; it is still possible to close the forge by moving away from it, pressing ESC, zoning, or going linkdead. NO DROP items left in the forge in this way are deleted.
<li>Addenum to the above--GMs will restore items lost this way if it was due to linkdeath, a server crash, or an honest to goodness bug.
<li>Trainers and Skill Points--You may only use training points on your skill until it is 21 (bad). You may not use them after this skill, regardless of how many you used prior.
<li>Smithing Chisels--Are purchase only. Listed on the <a href=http://www.eqtraders.com/supplies.htm>Trade Supplies</a> page.
<li>Cultural Enchant Ore Spell Locations--Are sold in their home cities. Check the <a href=http://www.eqtraders.com/location/smithing.htm>Smithing Trade Supplies</a> page, and remember to use the FIND (CTRL +F) function of your Web browser.
</ul>
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<a name="general"></a>
<li>General Smithing Issues--All too common mistakes and over-asked questions.
<ul>
<li>Whenever you receive a "Does Not Combine" message, check the following:
<ul>
<li>Are the materials you using correct?
<li>Are the molds you are using correct?
<li>Are you using the correct temper? If the recipe calls for a temper, the water flask is not necessary.
<li>Is the forge you're using correct?
</ul>
<li>Success Rate--The only, sole, singular, solamente, soltanto, solo, and one single thing that affects the success rate on a given combine is skill and skill alone!!!
<li>Trivial Failure--Despite (and to spite) anyone's skill, there is always a 5% chance of failure on anything. Period.
<li>Skill Modifiers--It has been proven, by SoE and the Safehouse, that skill modifiers do not stack.
<li>Skill-up Path Disparities--Races that do not posses a cultural armor to raise skill on are forced to use Shadowscream (time consumong), Mistletoe Cutting Sickles (extremely expensive), or Acrylia (extreme rarity of windstones).
<li>Weapon Conversion Issues--Velium weapons cannot be converted into ore.
<li>Raising Skill--There is no method that is "fast", "easy", and "cheap". You will either sacrifice time, money, or difficulty in order to get any leeway on the other traits. If you chose smithing, thinking that you can grandmaster it quickly, cheaply, and with little difficulty, boy, did YOU pick the wrong skill! <img src="http://www.boomspeed.com/sinuuyanea/dcrazz.gif" alt="Sheesh!">
</ul>
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<a name="gripe"></a>
<li>General Smithing Gripes--Things that have changed and are here to stay.
<ul>
<li>The May 8th~June 5th "Grace Period"--Mistake, poor planning, lack of foresight, or general bad idea, the month-long grace period happened.
<li>The June 5th Smithing Trivial "Nerf"--The trivials on the recipes that existed before May 8th, 2002, were adjusted to their intended levels on June 5th, 2002. It was a necessary step, albeit mistimed.
<li>Ethereal Smithing "Nerf"--The trivial levels on Ethereal Rings and Sheets were adjusted to a rather...interesting...level, nullifying a simple, easy, single method for Grandmastery.
<li>The Teir'Dal Forge Bug "Fix"--The Teir'Dal Forge, on its own, no longer creates Enchanted Blocks of Adamantite.
<li>Black Acrylia Weapons--The only droppable crafted weapons that are flagged as "LORE". Aside from smithed items intended for quests, there are no other lore smithed items.
</ul>
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<a name="site"></a>
<li>Site Concernes and Re-reinterations
<ul>
<li>General--The main site, www.eqtraders.comwww.eqtraders.com</a> , is the most completee source of information on EverQuest Tradeskills that exists. Period. Argument closed.
<li>General--If information on the main site hasnt been updated, it's because only a few people work on the main site, and Denmother hasnt had time to do so.
<li>General--Follow the rules in the http://mboards.eqtraders.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7Visitor's Corner</a>, and there wont be any trouble.
<li>Buying/Selling--Is <b>ONLY</b> to be done on the http://mboards.eqtraders.com/phpBB2/index.php?h=1&pf=76Marketplace Forums</a> <b>AND NOWHERE ELSE. END OF DISCUSSION.</b>
<li>The Database--Will be done when it's done; quit nagging <img src="http://www.boomspeed.com/sinuuyanea/dcrazz.gif" alt="Coding isnt as easy as you think ">
<li>Tradeskill Guides--The tradeskill guides are there for a reason; to educate and inform. Some are outlines and suggestions; others are hand-holding from start to finish. None are etched in stone; modify them to suit your needs.
<li>Quest Recipes--Recipes used in quests, namely Zek Bane Weapons, Aid Grimel, Royal Velium Field Plate, etc, are all listed in the http://www.eqtraders.com/quests/quests.htmQuests</a> section of the main site.
</ul>
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<a name="temper"></a>
<li>Temper, Temper--A list of items used in the various Smithing Tempers, and other subcombines. This list is to help reduce the confusion in similarly-named items used in various smithing recipes.
<li>Cultural:
<ul>
<li>Essence of Sunlight: Human Cultural, drops from Sand Giants, Chromodraks, Faerie Dragons. Often confused with Celestial Essences.
<li>Essence of Shadows: Dark Elven Cultural, drops from Shadowed Men. Often confused with Swirling Shadows.
<li>Essence of Moonlight: High Elven Cultural. Often mistaken for Dark Elven Cultural temper components.
<li>Lava Rock: Dwarven Cultural. Often mistaken for Essence of Shadows, Swirling Shadows.
</ul>
<li>Non-Cultural:
<ul>
<li>Swirling Shadows: Used in the Shadowscream recipe. Though not a temper ingredient, often mistaken for Essence of Shadows.
</ul>
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<a name="jack"></a>
<li>The Jack List--Items not used for Smithing. This list covers items that are commonly found, and their useage is frequently, and mistakenly, linked to tradeskills:
<ul>
<li>Perfect Acrylia Ore--Beastlord Epic, no other uses
<li>Brick of Valorium--Aside from enchanting, no other smithing uses
<li>Brick of Bloodmetal--Aside from enchanting, no other smithing uses
<li>Brick of Black Ore--No known use
<li>Block of Black Ore--No known use
<li>Oxidized Metal Sheet--No known use
<li>Block of Permafrost--Warrior Epic, no other uses
<li>Polished Lizard Scales--No known use
<li>Shiny Lizard Scales--No known use
<li>Shiny Metallic Orb--No known use
</ul>
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<a name="rip"></a>
<li>Rest in Peace--Dead Horses that have ascended to their final rest. The following list contains issues that have been alleviated:
<ul>
<li>Swirling Shadows--Are no longer NO RENT
<li>Morning Dew--Is now a mob drop.
<li>Tae Ew Blood Vial--Is far more common than it used to be.
<li>Gnomish Cultural--Gnomes now have a tinkered set of plate and chain armor comperable to the blue diamond cultural other races have.
<li>Cazic-Thule (the zone, not the deity) recipes--Now return the correct smithy hammer on a success or fail.
<li>Cazic-Thule (the zone, not the deity) recipes--Tae Ew Chain Bracer no longer requires a plate mold.
<li>The Hollowshade Moor War--Has been changed, apparently for the better.
<li>Forges and Stacked Items--Forges, and other combine containers, no longer combine items that are stacked, regardless of number. A pop-up box should appear if you try to do so.
<li>Weapon to Ore Conversion--The amount and type of ore created via converting weapons seems to have been changed to better reflect the type of weapon converted.
<li>Trivial Failures--Have apparently been lessened.
</ul>
#topBack to top</a>
<a name="lies"></a>
<li>The Den of Lies--Smithing Myths and Misconceptions
This list is a list of things regarding Smithing that simply <b>are not true</b>:
<ul>
<li>Success Rate "Phantom" Nerfs--Have not, and never have, taken place. The Random Number Generator (or RNG) is dirt poor; it often works in streaks, and at times will be quite unfavorable to a person; the opposite is also true.
<li>"Trivial"--When an item becomes Trivial, it simply means that you can no longer gain skill making that particular item. It does <b>not</b> mean that you have reached the maximum possible success rate (95%) with that item
</ul>
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<a name="names"></a>
<li>The Name Game--this is a list of smithing goods and supplies with confusing naming conventions:
<ul>
<li>Molds/Patterns--While Large and Small Molds and Chainmail Patterns have their appropriate adjective in front of them, medium ones do not.
<li>Recipes and sizes--All Cultural and Planes of Power Recipes require the <b>medium</b> sized mold or pattern, unless otherwise noted. They cannot be made as "small" or "large".
<li>Teir'Dal Adamantite Plate--Whether mundane, enchanted, or enchanted and imbued, all of the old-school Teir'Dal Adamantite Plate has the same name.
</ul>
#topBack to top</a>
<a name="howto"></a>
<li>Maximizing Resources--The following is a guide on how to best use the <a href=http://www.eqtraders.com>Main Site</a> to find the answers that you need quickly and efficiently. In all instances, the use of the "Find" feature of your web browser, activated by pressing CTRL and F at the same time, will expedite your search.
<ul>
<li>If it's a question about a <b>Recipe</b>:[list=1][*]Go to the <a href=http://www.eqtraders.com/recipes.htm>Recipes Page</a>[*]Click on the section that you need to get information from.[*]If the recipe requires a specific race, it will be on the <a href=http://www.eqtraders.com/secrets/recipes_smithing_cultural_main.htm>Cultural Recipes</a> page.[/list]
<li>Keywords for recipes:
<ul>
<li>Heraldic: <a href=http://www.eqtraders.com/secrets/recipes_smithing_human_qeynos.htm>Human, Qeynos</a>
<li>Underfoot: <a href=http://www.eqtraders.com/secrets/recipes_smithing_dwarven.htm>Dwarven</a>
<li>Mithril/Full Mithril/Artkeepers: <a href=http://www.eqtraders.com/secrets/recipes_smithing_high_elf.htm>High Elven</a>
<li>Adamantite/Regent/Soverign: <a href=http://www.eqtraders.com/secrets/recipes_smithing_darkelf.htm>Dark Elven</a>
<li>Artificers/Helanic Tundra/Black Lace: <a href=http://www.eqtraders.com/secrets/recipes_smithing_barbarian.htm>Barbarian</a>
<li>Tae Ew: <a href=http://www.eqtraders.com/secrets/recipes_cazicthule.htm>Cazic Thule Recipes</a>
<li>Trophies: <a href=http://www.eqtraders.com/secrets/recipes_trophies.htm>Tradeskill Trophies</a>
</ul>
<li>If the question is about a smithing tool:
<ul>
<li>By city: <a href=http://www.eqtraders.com/supplies.htm#Zone>Trade Supplies by Zone</a>
<li>By tradeskill: <a href=http://www.eqtraders.com/supplies.htm#skill>Trade Supplies by Skill</a>
</ul>
<li><b>IF</b> your answer isnt found on the <a href=http://www.eqtraders.com>Main Site</a>, <b>THEN</b> come to the <a href=http://mboards.eqtraders.com/phpBB2/>Message Boards</a>. Click on the <a href=http://mboards.eqtraders.com/phpBB2/search.php>Search Function</a> at the top of the screen.[list=1][*]In the Search for Keywords box, enter the keywords you wish to search for. If you are looking specifically for all of the keywords, highlight the option marked "Search for all terms".[*]Under "Search Options", in the Forum drop down box, click on it and choose the forum you wish to search, or "All available" to search all forums. You need'nt change any other option.[*]Click on the posts, and use the "Find" (CTRL + F) feature to find the information you need.[/list]
<li>If you did <b>not</b> find the information you needed:[list=1][*]Go to the http://mboards.eqtraders.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=16Smithing Forum</a>[*]Create a <a href=http://mboards.eqtraders.com/phpBB2/posting.php?mode=newtopic&f=16>New Topic</a>[*]Make certain your subject is clear and concise; it doesnt have to be the Queen's English, but please avoid using numbers for letters, or slang words.[*]Enter your question or problem in the main text area. Put in as many details as you can, including:
<ul>
<li>Race
<li>Class
<li>Recipe being tried
<li>Components being used
</ul>[*]Check the "Notify me when a reply is posted" box, if it isnt already[*]Wait patiently for an answer.[/list]
</ul>

</ul><hr>
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That is it for the "Dead Horse" list for this forum. As more dead horses are exhumed, and hopefully even more are laid to rest, this post will be updated. <img src="http://www.boomspeed.com/sinuuyanea/dcyawn.gif" alt="What a boring read..."><img src="http://www.boomspeed.com/sinuuyanea/hcsit.gif" alt="She did get pretty long winded, didnt she?"><img src="http://www.boomspeed.com/sinuuyanea/nchaorazz.gif" alt="Well, if people would enlighten themselves in the first place...">

[Brodybeard]

Under "Cultural Disparities":

Halflings: Why can't halfling worshipers of Bristlebane smith their own armor? They have to find dwarven smiths to craft Mischievous chain and plate armor.

[sumamael]

/nitpicking on
A few suggestions if I may,

1, I would add to the TFAQ--TOO Frequently Asked Questions (actually move it from the gaps since its not a gap).

The diety of the smith (crafter) does NOT effect the armor he can make, ONLY the RACE of the smith effects its.
The diety of the armor ONLY indicates one thing, who is allowed to wear the armor (Rallos Zek worshiper for example).

Dark Elves--Agnostic, Solusek Ro, Bristlebane and Rallos Zek followers are limited to the inferior versions of the cultural armors, or must turn to other cultures (i.e., cant make their own).

I would rephrase it to say that "....followers are limited to the inferior (not-imbued) versions....." but this might be nitpicking.

Planes of Power--The requirements for any Planar smithed plate-type armor, namely 3~5.5 tempers needed per piece, is unreasonable.

Would add to that, ".......unreasonable and certain temper components are waaaay toooo rare"

Skillups--The only, sole, singular, solamente, soltanto, solo, and one single thing that affects successes is skill and skill alone!!!

Are you sure that you want to say "Skillups--" and not "Success rate--"?

/nitpicking off

[Sinuuyanea Nocturne]

...so, what do you think of the intro?
<img src="http://www.boomspeed.com/sinuuyanea/dcpuzzle.gif" alt="The name's Shade. Remember it.">I forgot, am I the star?

<img src="http://www.boomspeed.com/sinuuyanea/hchaohum.gif" alt="Hi-yee! I'm Zippy!">La la la, I'm the star, everyone loves me, la la la...

<img src="http://www.boomspeed.com/sinuuyanea/ncsit.gif" alt="Greetings. I am called Chaolin.">I simply hope that we helped one person help themselves...it makes it all worthwhile.

[sumamael]

I liked the dead horse, the rest of them are too alive for me.
A few more zombie, skeleton, banshee, spectre, reanimated cleric/enchanter and I will form an opinion

[Lilosh]

Re: FAQ 2: The Dead Horse

<li>Gnome--Does not consider Tinkering "cultural", even though only their race can do it. Does not have a cultural smithed armor that they can make, but can wear Dwarven Cultural.



<li>Whenever you recieve a "Does Not Comine" message, check the following:

Two things...


1) Gnome casters have Zero cultural. Cant even wear clockwork. May want to clarify that not ALL gnomes can wear Dorf Cultural.

2) [tease] Comine???? [/tease]


Otherwise, a very excellent, well put together post.

-Lilosh

[Salitorn]

Call us what you want to yourself.

But **INSULTING** other people on the boards, including moderators will not be tolerated.

And believe it or not, calling someone a **** is extremely insulting.

We are open to discussion on the topic of "Is it correct to have a Dead horse topic".

We are NOT open to people insulting us.

There will be no more warnings on this.

Ngreth

[Sinuuyanea Nocturne]

This post isnt about censorship. It's about being tired of seeing the same posts on these boards over and over and over again. It's about hopefully never having to hear the same dead and rotting issues brought up over and over and over again. This board and the main site is full of information: the only thing we ask is that you take 5 minutes to educate yourself before immediately asking for help.

[Cigarskunk]

Let's not forget the ever so popular "enchanters are the roadblock to me GMing smithing" as well as it's varients of ranting on the druids and clerics for those who want/need imbued gems.

Then of course there are the subtopics of how high a level is required to due the metal enchanting, getting mana vials and the obscene amount of mana required.

Woodelves having to go to high elf city to buy mithril, ogres having to go to dark elf city to buy adamatine.

[ArrakeenNaedShoj]

I REALLY REALLY loved the GIF at the start. It made me giggle repetitively for like twenty minutes, thank you for that.

1 Dead horse, that I am personally guilty of gratuitous assault on, is the disparency between VI's statement, "Old Cultural should be something made/used by someone in their 30s/early 40s" back when they decided to change it, and their continued lack of change to the Enchanter Enchant spells required level.

IE. The level on the Enchant: *Cultural Metal* spell is too high of a level, and too expensive a mana cost.

[Velurian]

Re: FAQ 2: The Dead Horse

2) [teaste] Comine???? [/tease]

Further demonstration that any post that notes a typo will invariably contain one itself.

(...while I proceed to disprove my own point. :P )

[Lilosh]

I'm sure I don't know what you're talking about.


-Lilosh

[kiztent]

Nice.

I'd mention shadowscream - no drop and no rent components, as well as the broken zone war bottleneck.

[Sinuuyanea Nocturne]

Well as you may have noticed by now, despite the information contained in this post, it has been un-stickied. However, as origionator of this kind of post, I plan to continue to update it with information, and hopefully when the naysayers and flaming trolls have gone elsewhere, it will return to it's set position for its purpose: to educate, inform, and provoke people to search for themselves.

They're coming from the left! <img src="http://www.boomspeed.com/sinuuyanea/hchaobow.gif" alt="Arrow of Truth!"> <img src="http://www.boomspeed.com/sinuuyanea/dcswatk.gif" alt="The fiends will sample my blade!"> They're coming from the right!

<img src="http://www.boomspeed.com/sinuuyanea/dcswshine.gif" alt="Fight ignorance!">With knowledge (and the http://mboards.eqtraders.com/phpBB2/search.phpSearch</a> feature) comes success!

[Lilosh]

*looking at the icons*


You worry me, Sinuuyanea.



Lilosh