The Cestus booboo and my two coppers

[oerin trubble]

It appears as though these two things got an identity switch

Pale Velium Inlaid Cestus: made with pale nihilite
Slot: PRIMARY SECONDARY
Skill: Hand to Hand Atk Delay: 11
DMG: 5 Dmg Bonus: 13
STR: +5 WIS: +5 INT: +5 AGI: +5
SV FIRE: +5 SV COLD: +5 SV MAGIC: +5
WT: 2.0 Size: MEDIUM
Class: MNK BST
Race: ALL
Slot 1, Type 4
Slot 2, Type 7

Velium Inlaid Cestus: made with shimmering nihilite
slot: primary, scondary
skill: hand to hand atk delay: 11
dmg:3
str:+5 wis:+5 int:+5 agi:+5
wt:2.0 size: medium
class: mnk bst
race: all
slot 1: type 4 empty
slot 2: type 7 empty

OOPS!
Well stuff happens!

Now, how to recover?
Some have been made, and used, and loved, and hated.

I've made and sold several of the pale version myself. I can imagine my customers and a noose if the nerf bat hits wrong.

Here's something i think would be workable:

1. Put stats where they belong (swap them)

2. Upgrade every existing owner so the weapon owned essentially just changes name. Every existing Pale Velium Inlaid Cestus will magically become a Velium Inlaid Cestus.

3. Anyone currently with a Velium Inlaid Cestus gets a stat boost to the 5 11 it ought to be.

4. Life in Norrath goes on with minimal nerf impact.

Sounds reasonable to me. What's anyone else think?

[Krazick]

I see the differences as being:

Pale Velium Inlaid Cestus
DMG 5
SV Fire 5, SV Cold 5, SV Magic 5

vs

Velium Inlaid Cestus
DMG 3
(no Saves)

The Pale Velium Inlaid Cestus made with Pale Nihilite

and

the Velium Inlaid Cestus made with Shimmering Nihilite

I presume you are implying the Shimmering Nihilite is rarer (I haven't found either).

Probably instead of changing the existing weapons, what they are likely to do is simply correct the recipe. Why go to the trouble of retro-fixing (and annoying people) for items they intended to be out.

[oerin trubble]

change the recipes . . .
swap the names . . .
swap the weapons . . .

Basically the same effect.

But the Pale Velium Inlaid Cestus should and is made with Pale Nihilite. and comparatively should have the lesser stats since Shimmering Nihilite is more rare and difficult to get to.

Drop the stats of existing weapons and annoyed people will be an understatement.

Change the recipe so that the Pale Velium Inlaid Cestus requires shimmering nihilite to make in the future is a reasonable approach from a functionality standpoint. But sorta violates the name.

We've accidentally been given a taste of what lies beneath "scratching the surface".

[Cavel]

The TINY bit of information I have been able to gather is that the Pale Nihilite is from the first (read easier) zones in GoD where as the Shimmering Nihilite is the stuff from the deeper zones of GoD. The issue being that if they change the outcome of the combine it will by default change the existing items.

My understanding is that the items that exist in EQ are in a Database of sorts, where your character has X Y and Z items (These values match database entries) so every time you log in your character it goes out and looks at the DB and presents you with the items you should have. So let us say that the Pale Velium Inlaid Cestus is "Fixed" so that the stats are what the Velium Inlaid Cestus actually has. This would alter the DB entry for both of these items and thus when you log in and your characters equiptment is pulled up you get the "Fixed" version of the Cestus... Not a bad deal for those with the Velium one but a rip off for those that had the Pale Velium version.

There have only been one or two times that I can remember where a "Fix" has resulted in a "pre-nerf" item... I highly doubt that they would do that here as it would require additional entries into the Database.

[Aethn]

Currently on Test the recipe that uses JUST nihilite to create:

Pale Velium Inlaid Cestus: made with pale nihilite
Slot: PRIMARY SECONDARY
Skill: Hand to Hand Atk Delay: 11
DMG: 5 Dmg Bonus: 13
STR: +5 WIS: +5 INT: +5 AGI: +5
SV FIRE: +5 SV COLD: +5 SV MAGIC: +5
WT: 2.0 Size: MEDIUM
Class: MNK BST
Race: ALL
Slot 1, Type 4
Slot 2, Type 7

no longer works, it comes up as a DNC. I suspect this has been changed to be a shimmering recipe (more appropriate for the stats imo) now.

[Kronepsis]

Two things.

1: Make SURE you're using the right Cestus mold. There's two of them on the same vendor, and one doesn't work. You want the one near the top.

2: After going through all the stuff that has been made, it turns out that the Velium INLAID Cestus (The one with the Shimmering Nihilite) has the exact same stats as the Velium Cestus (The one with no gems). Thus, whatever bonus the Shimmering Nihilite is supposed to give (I heavily suspect +Damage, +Resists), is not working.

[Eidolon Faer]

Pale Nihilite drops in Natimbi, the very first GOD zone you see. Off critters that a level 55 XP group can chew through fairly well, or a Direcharm-enabled Enchanter or Druid can solo all day long.

Shimmering Nihilite drops in Kod'Taz, which you need to complete some extremely nasty trials to enter, and where the guilds that are bored with farming Quarm go to wipe.

So yeah, Shimmering Nihilite is rarer.

[Cantatus]

Maddoc did say the ratios on these would be changed. Perhaps that is why they aren't working on test at the moment.

[Tingteng]

I don't remeber him saying the ratios would change but, rather they would be made more appropriate. This is done easily with a rec/req level tag.

[Aethn]

Pale Velium Inlaid Cestus ratio is now 10/22 on Test with a recommended , cant remember the lvl , its 40-50 range though. No other stats have changed on them.

Edit: Recommended is 45

[Cantatus]

From Cestus Dmg/Dly: This will be Nerfed soon I imagine:

The values aren't anything excessively awesome (by todays standards), however, they are incorrect. Those items are intended to be on par with their 1hs/1hb cousins.

They'll be changed to something a bit more appropriate in the next update.

-- Maddoc

[oerin trubble]

Pale Velium Inlaid Cestus ratio is now 10/22 on Test

Wonder how this is going to go over with my customers.

So when is nerf date?

Did they nerf existing weapons on the test server?

[Aethn]

ITs all changed on Test now, has been for a week. I imagine the next patch we will see these changed on Live Servers too.

I hope your customers dont string you up, but then again, we all knew these were being nerfed weeks ago from Maddoc. So if you sold them then you knowingly sold a bad product and whatever you reap from it you deserve. You should never have sold them in the first place.

[falkahnhan]

Take rants and personal attacks on SOE elsewhere. They are not tolerated here. I'm not allowing this thread to go down the same road as the one in the Primal Scream Room. Consider this a warning. Find a cool head before posting again.

Thanks,
Cantatus

[Grimwood]

There are basically two kinds of nerf:

The "ethical" nerf IMHO is to leave existing items unchanged under the "pre-nerf" label; subsequent items have the new, lower stats. There's a track record for this, like the classic pre-nerf Circlet of Shadow (175K lowest bazaar price today on Fennin Ro) and its post-nerf version Circlet of Shadows (2.5K in Fennin bazaar today).

The "retro-nerf" is the unethical one, where an item's stats are changed after the person has already gotten it. Poster children for this approach are some of the Thurgadin quest armor pieces.... Plate Bracer and Plate Boots-- Effects: Abundant Food/Drink ! One assumes that the original effects were massively unbalancing to game play, or that a designer was just in a bad mood that day and didn't mind shafting whoever was overly trusting. This "change everything" approach hurts everybody and leads to a lot of dissatisfaction, judging by our bazaar OOCs and bazaar chat channel.

There aren't a whole lot of these Cestuses in existence, and like Maddoc said, it's not like the stats are earthshaking. For those of us who made them in good faith and those who bought them in good faith, let's hope the designer types choose the imho "ethical" approach and do the pre-nerf/post-nerf thing with the Cestus. Don't change the existing items (maybe a dozen or two on Fennin at the moment, my best guess), do change items made with the recipe subsequent to the patch. Maybe change the name a tiny bit on the post-patch items, and everybody is happy.

In fact the "ahh wow that's neat!" factor for us Tradeskillers is the one great thing about this expansion, and I've got hopes that it'll continue that way :-). (Otherwise, I'm sure you've seen, this expansion is getting at best "mixed" reviews, but that's a topic for other boards ;-).)