Honest idea to fix smithed gear woes *forever*

[Cavel]

First I agree with all the information about the elemental planes smithing items that have been posted here. Heck even the Hurricane items (Electrified copper, drops of pure rain and the like) are HORRIBLY expensive on Tunare. It is so bad that other Smithers that I have spoken with are just selling the componants after they make what they want from them.

I understand what you are saying here Maddoc that we have not seen everything AND that because the ore is droppable we might see it but I have to go along with Arhallia here.

If the ore can only be gotten by groups/raids that are elemental/time geared then most average tradeskillers will never see it. IF the trend started in PoP continues in this expantion and others then Tradeskills will be obsolet (maybe not baking) in that the items made will only be for twinking rather than for the casual player to use.

Now My idea would be to allow Smiths to work with Jewel Crafters to create Augment Mounts to add to ANY smithed items. Keep the same augment types but just allow us to get a Augment holder (JC made) and attach it in a forge to an item we have made (Max of 3 slots).

What you think?

[Maddoc-the-Wayfarer]

Now My idea would be to allow Smiths to work with Jewel Crafters to create Augment Mounts to add to ANY smithed items.

That was pretty much the concept behind the jewelcrafted portion of the combines, but on a smaller, more limited scale -- Which is why you get not only a Type 4 augmentation slot on the Gates smithed weapons, but a Type 7 augmentation slot as well.

If the ore can only be gotten by groups/raids that are elemental/time geared then most average tradeskillers will never see it.

Certain types of ore/materials are only available in the Time level zones. As I've said before, for the casual player, this might mean they need to vendor-dive or search the Bazaar in order to obtain them. Even though some of you might disagree, that's not necessarily a bad thing, as it gives even casual tradeskillers something that's somewhat attainable to strive for.

-- Maddoc

Edit: Drop rates are a completely different topic alltogether, and I think it's a bit unfair to compare Gates drop rates to PoP drop rates quite yet.

As with any expansion launch, people intentionally don't sell items, either in the Bazaar or to merchants -- At least not until they're sure that they're not used for a quest they're going to kick themselves over later if they happened to sell it too early. Give it a little time. Let the players explore the content and the market settle. Gates drop rates are something I'm keeping a very close eye on, and if changes are necessary, you can be sure I'll make them.

[Cavel]

Maddoc I really appreciate your honest feedback here.

Is it possible to "Retro-fit" some of the older smithing combines like I was discussing in my original Idea? So let us say I make a pair of Blessed Full Mithrial Greaves, Currently they only have one type 7 slot on them.
I find a Grand Master Jewel Crafter to make me an "Augment Holder", this would be an additional Augment slot for the Greaves I just made, I put the "Augment Holder" and Greaves into a forge and click combine (This is a CANNOT LEARN combine) if I succeed I get a new set of greaves with 1 type 7 and 1 other Augment slot. If I fail I get the same old Blessed Full Mithrial Greeves back.

The problem I see from a Coding Stand point is that IF I am correct about there being a Master Data base of all items then we have Just Bloated it by a factor of 6 (one for each Augment type other than 7), and that is if you only allow one additional Augment Slot per item.

Lastly I would like to say I will indeed give it time before judging the drop rates Maddoc, I honestly will try. But I would like to know if you have attempted to "Dumpster dive" (Bazaar or Vendor Shop) for most smithing items lately? I always check for the Hurricane items when in Bazaar and also any of the Elemental Planes items. When I do find some on Tunare the items tend to be outside of a price range I can afford or in to small of a quantity to attempt anything other than a sub-combine. Sure if I had a Million Plat I would be fine with this BUT currently I do not have that much.

[Maddoc-the-Wayfarer]

Is it possible to "Retro-fit" some of the older smithing combines like I was discussing in my original Idea?

It's absolutely possible to do something like that, and in fact... That's actually something I thought of doing for Gates, but I didn't have enough time to evaluate everything, ensuring that it was all done properly and didn't break bards or boats or gnomes or something...

This is something that's on my list of "This is a really cool idea, I should implement it sometime..." stuff -- It's there, it may not necessarily ever get done, but it's always an option.

I would like to know if you have attempted to "Dumpster dive" (Bazaar or Vendor Shop) for most smithing items lately?

Smithing in particular? No... That's one of the skills my character only has to 170ish or so, but I have had to do it for other skills.

-- Maddoc

[KyrosKrane]

Originally posted by Maddoc-the-Wayfarer
ensuring that it was all done properly and didn't break bards or boats or gnomes or something...

Mwahaha! Talk to Absor for the bards, give us translocators for the boats, make sure there's plenty of gnome kabobs to go around, and all is right with the world. < evil grin >

[Cavel]

Again Maddoc Thanks for replying. It is great to get honest feedback on some ideas that we have here.

I would like to know if anyone else has had the same Awful luck that I have with Vendor/Bazaar on any server trying to find smithing items (Elemental or Even Hurricane and Night Terror) or if I am just not checking the right Vendors at the right times.

1K Thanks Maddoc!

[GunnyBurlfoot]

Well, I would like to say, as a tradeskiller, that it is indeed refreshing to see such an active official presence within the tradeskill community.

That being said, I *do* check the Bazaar and the PoK-LDoN camp-Druid ring- merchant run on a fairly regular basis, and more often than not, barring the rare find on an NPC vendor, the elemental subcomponents for smithing and tailoring are found in the Bazaar and priced such that you might be able to show a slight profit if you never failed any steps. Since you tradeskill, you know how unlikely that is.

I really can't offer up any method to allow the most dedicated tradeskillers to manufacture and sell gear almost equal to the most dedicated raiders' gear, that would *also* be safe to use and somehow cut out the macro bot hordes of The Enemy Who Will Not Be Named.

If they (you know, THEM) can macro bot farming a camp in Seb, what truly is beyond their reach?

Also, as a side note, what is *up* with the PoP leathers? Being a tailor/smith druid, I'd love to crank them out, but they require tempered elemental steel AND blood AND hide. If I did manage to luck into a supply of liquified earth on some unknown NPC vendor, I'd be stark raving mad to try to make those leathers, when plate requires LESS combines and sells for more.

Anyways, good to see someone closely monitoring the tradeskills!

[Eidolon Faer]

Oh, let's not forget the Elemental Pottery drops. Those NEVER get sold by the big guilds, because Multielemental Glaze is needed for the nofail quest container for PoTime access.

Get the chunks of element from Coimav, Fennin Ro, Xegony, etc, then combine em in an Odylic Vial.

I'd have to say that between Putrescent Blood (or, more specifically the lack thereof) and the Elemental Glaze components, POP pottery has "issues".

[Angelsyn]

Yeah... I'm currently in the market for Inferno & Livestone temper materials.

Those that I see in the Bazaar are very overpriced... and some things just aren't seen.

It's much like the stupid-rarity of Pristine Tae Ew Scales. I think it's safe to say that I've personally seen every Tae Ew plate item made on Xegony, and know where most of the Pristine Tae Ew Scales that haven't been used yet are.

[Xanafeldier]

Originally posted by Eidolon Faer
I don't usually buy pet weapons in the bazaar, because all those mages are just bazaar bots run by Yantis, and I dont feel like aiding and abetting.

Bot? Yantis? Apparently I've missed something. Can anyone explain what this means or tell me where to find out?

(I've made a lot of pp the old-fashioned hard way, without reselling or any of the other tricks. I've benefitted from the increased platinum in that I've sold more at a reasonable profit margin for the effort put forth to make things. The fact that what platinum I have is technically worth less? /sigh Oh well.)

[Cavel]

Yantis is a guy that sells Plat, Bot is a person that writes a script to do something while they are way from Keyboard to make plat to eventually, in most cases, sell for RL money.

{Description of 'boting removed. Not here. Take that sort of thing somewhere else, thank you. ~Lothay}

[Cavel]

I am sorry Lothay, I work in Tech Support and tend to over explain things.

Will try not to do it in the future.

[Kolotha]

I'd like to see bd cultural trivial dropped to 252 and some of the components removed or changed and a new tier of better weapons and armor added at a similar trivial to the old. Like 65 ac Bps with 100 hp on them or something. Maybe these better weapons and armor could use more difficult to find components. Upgrading the stats on old regular smithed gear to make it at least saleable would be nice too. 99% of all the stuff a smith can make is completely useless or worth less then it costs to make.

[Angelsyn]

Originally posted by Kolotha
I'd like to see bd cultural trivial dropped to 252 and some of the components removed or changed and a new tier of better weapons and armor added at a similar trivial to the old. Like 65 ac Bps with 100 hp on them or something. Maybe these better weapons and armor could use more difficult to find components. Upgrading the stats on old regular smithed gear to make it at least saleable would be nice too. 99% of all the stuff a smith can make is completely useless or worth less then it costs to make.

You mean...

Just like the Smithed Elemental Plate BPs?

[Kolotha]

Theres none of those on my server so I wasn't really thinking about them. Good point though, considering how difficult it is to make them, their stats should be upgraded as well or have some of their ingredients removed to make them easier to make. All smithed gear and alot of other tradeskills need to have their stats overhauled, it is just such a waste to be able to make hundreds of different items that noone would ever use. Here I'll post some example of what I mean: Drop the trivial of banded armor to 20 or so, drop the trivial of fine plate to 50, drop LDoN armor trivial to 100, drop the trivial of acrylia armor to 130, change the stats of the low end smithed weapons to something that someone might actually use (for example change
regular smithed longswords to 10/25 or something similar), get rid of the useless stuff like lanterns or drop their trivial down to 10 or lower etc. Another option might be limiting the amount of skill ups you can get from making one item, or changing the way they trivial. For example rather then setting a trivial for an item, arrange tradeskill items into sets. Like making weapons increases your chances to make a weapon, but has nothing to do with your success rate for making armor and vice versa. I really don't get how being good at making sewing needles makes you better at making armor, as the process to make them would not be similar in real life.