Hammer of the Ironfrost

[Nimphe Wildwood]

A serious question, how much would you pay for looting rights on a Hammer of the Ironfrost ? Or would you use the money for components instead?

Better yet, how much would you sell this for if you were awarded the loot?

I do not want this to turn into a Rant or Flame, so civil answers, comments or concerns only please.

[kiztent]

LDoN pretty much trashed the main benefit of the Hammer (making etherial rings earlier).

The question is, really, what do you want it for?

1 - hit effective 250 earlier? may be worth something then.

2 - hit 1750 faster? Not really worth a lot more than a ~300pp geerlok, even assuming you believe that success leads to skill ups.

3 - make more stuff quicker? Hardly seems worth paying anything for, given that most high end smithing markets are trashed.

4 - Start Aid Grimel earlier? See 2.

5 - Use as your main weapon? Dunno, nice ratio, 100 hp, could be worth something.

I couldn't see paying a lot for it, because I don't see any value in it. I'd guess 50-100k for looting rights, if you'd find a guild willing to deal with SSra content that's already trivial to kill XtC for you.

The chance of someone actually wanting the **** thing with enough cash to pay for it finding a guild that would sell the looting rights is minimal at best. /mourn smooth.

[Silound]

Personally, no more than a Swiftplade of Zek. Near same stats, and hte smithing mod is'nt that great of a thing unless you are ina cruch for long range skillup/successes.

Sil

[Ilona]

I was willing to pay 70-80k for it.

I've skilled up to 243 now, still haven't got my hands on one.

[KyrosKrane]

Let's put this in perspective.

Base assumption:

John Smith (pun intentional) has just completed Fine Plate armor, so skill is 188. John has decided he wants to make his top cultural and planar armors, which uniformly trivial at 250+.

John does not have LDoN, and pricing on LDoN tempers and components is prohibitive. John has "enough" cash to do smithing the old-fashioned way -- that is, through a mix of Acrylia, Shadowscream, and maybe cultural, depending on John's race. However, John does not have much time to play. Therefore, long sessions of farming do not appeal to him; nor do long, boring skillup sessions.

Analysis

In this case, the hammer would be quite valuable. With the hammer, John would only have to struggle though four points (until skill 192) before he could use the Ethereal rings to get to 212. At this point, John's effective skill is about 243 -- very close to the maximum. John would only have to reach skill 220 (that is, eight skillups) before his skill is effectively maxed.

In contrast, with just a geerlok, John would have to work to 210 using normal methods before he could attempt ethereal rings. Then, he would have to work his actual skill from 212 up to 240 before he reaches maximum effective skill.

Therefore, the hammer effectively saves John from getting 18 "hard" skillups (substituting rings) and gives him 20 "free" skillups (in that he's already at the effective maximum).

Alternate Scenario: LDoN

Same scenario as above, but John has LDoN -- or at least, he has access to LDoN tempers at a sensible price.

In this case, the hammer still offers the 20 "free" skillups for getting the maximum effective skill. The need for ethereal rings is greatly diminished, though, by the LDoN armors. Having said that, depending on the server economy, it may be less costly (and even profitable) to produce the rings and resell in the bazaar. Depending on finances, the hammer could still offer considerable savings over LDoN armors.

Alternate Scenario: High Skill

John already has his smithing skill over 212, so the rings are not an issue. If John just wants an effective skill of 252, the hammer is still good for shaving off 20 skill points. Effectively, the same as above.

Alternate Scenario: Getting Max Skill

Regardless of his finances, John wants to see Blacksmithing: 250 on his skills list. In this case, the hammer would ease his path by allowing the easier ring combines, but it would be less helpful after 212. Where it would still shine, though, is in reducing failures. This can help reduce John's costs.

My personal feelings:

Logically, this should be priced on how much you can save in actual pp costs, and how much time you can save. This will vary wildly as each person can earn pp at different rates, and each person will value their time by their own standard.

Based on the above, my personal budget for something like the hammer would give it a fair value of 30-50K. This is my personal feeling, though.

Edit:

Note to self. Quit writing long, boring essays at the drop of a hat.

Anywho. I'm completely ignoring the hammer as an actual weapon, which may be unfair. If you are a class which could use it as an effective weapon, then your price estimate may be higher.

As a paladin, I can buy weapons with MUCH better ratios for pennies -- a Mace of the Fallen Crusader (21/25) sells for 50pp. The stats on the Hammer are quite impressive (especially in the HP department/mana), but as a paladin, I wouldn't use a 1H weapon to tank. If I'm not tanking, I'll pull out my best dps weapons, and again, in terms of pure dps, the hammer just doesn't measure up to many droppable 2H weapons, let alone no-drop ones.

The situation may be different for other classes who do use 1H weapons regularly or those who don't have access to the insane-ratio weapons knights can use.

Yes, I'm rambling again ...

[Nimphe Wildwood]

KyrosKane -

Note to self. Quit writing long, boring essays at the drop of a hat.

Nope, I didn't find it to be a boring essay. Love the logic of it all.

I'm really having a hard time debating on spending (hmm let's say 100k pp - which would not be a problem for me) on the *hopes* of getting AND being IG should a Hammer drop. Or spend that exact same amount of plat and purchase components and perhaps save some money.

Why I'm struggling with this I do not know. Heck, Tailoring alone cost me over 170k and I've GM'd all skills except for Pottery, which is close, but yet Smithing still eludes me at a skill of 191.

Guessing part of my problem is that after spending over 9 months on Tradeskills, I'm very anxious to get started on the Aid Grimel quest. Call it Mid-life Tradeskill crisis!

Thanks very much for all the response.

*many, many hugs*

[KyrosKrane]

OK, let me see if I understand your situation. Your current skill is 191 in smithing. Your goal (in the short term, at least) is to hit 220 so you can start the Aid Grimel quest. Cash is not a problem; you have 100K to play with. It also sounds like you've at least discussed this in passing with a guild that's raiding XTC, so you have a realistic chance of purchasing the looting rights.

In your situation, the hammer would be quite useful to you. You'd only need one or two more skill points the "old-fashioned way" before you could use the hammer to make ethereal rings to 212. Alternately, if you have access to LDoN tempers, you can use those to 212, which would negate the essential need for the hammer. Then, when you do hit 212, you'd only need eight more points to start Aid Grimel. That would also put you at max effective skill with the hammer, or pretty close without it. The choice comes down to how much time vs. cash you're going to invest, and where you want to go with smithing -- stop at 220 or go on until 250.

Here is how I would approach this. Again, this is only my approach. Let's say you and the guild discuss and agree to pay 100Kpp for the looting rights. I would offer a "down-payment" of, say 20K, with the understanding that they would keep raiding XTC until I actually looted my hammer. When I loot the hammer, I would pay the balance.

This protects both you and the guild. You're effectively playing a lottery. The hammer may drop on the first kill, or it may not drop for several kills. While the guild is learning new skills and gearing up by raiding, all you're doing is strolling in, looting one item, and strolling out. In a sense, your purchase funds their raids. Thus, if for whatever reason the guild welches on the deal, you're not out the full 100K. Likewise, if the guild continues to raid XTC after they would normally move on just to get your hammer, and you then change your mind about buying it, they at least have some amount of cash to cover themselves financially.

Again, each person's situation will differ. Here's what you need to evaluate.

1) What are my short term and long term goals in smithing?
2) How much cash can I afford to outright throw away on smithing?
3) How quickly do I want my skill-ups? How much of my playtime can I dedicate to farming? To skill-up runs?
4) What kind of access do I have to alternatives like LDoN tempers?
5) What kind of market is there for selling any finished products I may make? Do I have the time and capability to sell them? Do I have a need to sell them?
6) Can I make a deal with a guild that raids XTC? Can I trust them to honor that deal? Do they trust ME to honor the deal?

Once you answer those, you'll have a better feel for the hammer deal.

[Silound]

Another thought is assuming you have teh cash to buy it and all you aim to do is hit 220, You can probably buy your way to 220 skill for less than 100k...

[kiztent]

Consider:

191 -> 212 = 21 points.

21*20 = 420 combines (assuming average luck and capped wis)

100k - 8820pp (SLP cost) = 91K

216pp = amount you could pay per temper and break even.

If you're still on SH, I'll be happy to sell you goblin bones for 200pp a pop - hey, savings, am I a great guy or what >.<

(of course that assumes that you get etherial bricks for free, or can sell the sheets to cover your costs).

For the rest of the skill points the hammer of the ironfrost... doesn't matter. You're going to 250 anyway, aren't you? Thought so

[merkell]

Hmmm could not find this hammer on Allak

[Nimphe Wildwood]

Merkell -

I linked it at the top to Lucy, but here is the one for Allakhazam.

/waves at Kiztent

If you're still on SH, I'll be happy to sell you goblin bones for 200pp a pop - hey, savings, am I a great guy or what >.<

Well, I ended moving back to my home server (Povar) but your last statement is indeed true and correct!

For the rest of the skill points the hammer of the ironfrost... doesn't matter. You're going to 250 anyway, aren't you? Thought so

Anything less, would be uncivilized! *inserts Insane cackle*

~~~

Personally I think I'm going to take the advice from you all, bite the bullet per se, and Forge ahead spending my plat to those who are eager to sell me their wares. (Would be a very different story if our Banks would accrue Interest!)

[Balkin]

Just a side note...

Personally, I have things I want to MAKE!!!

Yes, my ultimate goal is to get to 250 some day, but if I could start making the BD armors etc... that I want with a 220 skill, and have maximum success it would be no rush! I'd just take skill up's whenever they happened, and be happy!

So, for me, this hammer would R00L!

Ah well, good luck!

[YurienStonebow]

jsut a question since this is being discussed. the hammer has 15% skill mod. the dark ember gloves have a 15% skill mod. there is a belt with 10% skill mod. 40% total. does anybody actualyl KNOW that 15 is the cap? i'd love to have a 40% skill mod to smithing <g>

[Rewde]

/Wave Nimphe

Hey. If you are in need of materials to make tempers for the new LDoN stuff, just send me a tell in game sometime. I am constantly foraging up stuff in those new dungeons. I even got a few pieces of the granite last night from a MMC crawl.

I won't even charge you. Heck, all it is is a simple turn while I am moving, thanks to hotkeys and mapping.

[Balkin]

Skill modifiers do NOT stack.

This has been conclusively proven, and is in the FAQ at the top of the page.