wow, new and improved research... huh

[Voragath]

Wow! Thanks for your help too. Ooooh, feeling leet already

[Whipcream]

I think your question was answered about why the old system was disabled. Sony decided to listen to the researchers and we were asking for a more unified system in which we could also research spells for all classes. In the old system it was NOT unified and you could only research your class plus priest.

They probably disabled the old just to make sure there wasn't any confusion. Maybe it was code. Go to eqplayers.com and pm Ngreth for your question.

So that is the reason both systems don't work together, because it would confuse current spell researchers? As opposed to, say... changing spell research to 5 combines with 6-12 subcombines kind of confusion? There are lots of recipes in the land of Norrath that have different combines for the same result already. Like making poison vials with so many different skins, they haven't deleted all other recipes to force players to used zombie skins. I can count 21 different way to make them from the recipe lookup.
http://www.eqtraders.com/items/show_...r=035000000000

I think that's cool that they would listen to researchers and create a new unified system with research for all classes. But it still eludes me to why the old researching system would be deleted for this

Well, you did say that I should find Ngreth (he's an actual EQ developer?) for the real answer. I'll see if he is at eqplayers that if that is where to find him.

[scruff]

I too am disappointed with the way the research changes were made and am not apologetic with wanting to vent. It always seems possible that SOE developers or market folks would come to a site that seems like an old friend to so many Everquest fans (this site).

Obviously, tradeskilling has enriched Everquest. Researching, like tailoring, has been such a challenge ... in a good way. Rather than leveling my characters up, I found myself spending evenings gathering supplies (to the point of having over 200 stacks -- majority full -- of research supplies). I would sell a few spells to help recoup costs, but actually enjoyed giving them away. I was certainly dismayed recently after a player asked if I could make them the low level chanter spell "feedback". I looked in one of my characters banks and, yay, velishoul's 108 and 109. But they wouldn't combine .... what? I hated to disappoint the player but my feelings went beyond disappointment.

I knew that I was wasting a lot of time playing EQ but I rationalized it (bet most of you can relate to that). This event was the exclamation point ... SOE, itself, was telling me that my time spent in game was worthless. Well, it pays to listen to a big successful corporation. I havent played since ... and dont know if I will even if though I have certainly enjoyed EQ over the years.

There are a lot of positive things SOE could do if retaining old players means anything. For BIG nerfs like this, they could set up an exchange site ... trade nerfed items for useful ones through some mechanism. They could continue to allow dual recipes for tradeskills (anyone that enjoys the complexities of EQ will have no problem with the confusion). They could communicate BETTER (there is no great merit in secrecy in their planning or surprise in their implementation ... mysterious hints of change don't cut it). They could have a meaningful forum -- that seems more two way than /feedback ... a friendly first-rate internet site like this would be a great place for SOE to manage some interaction pages.

Thanks

[melkorr]

They could communicate BETTER (there is no great merit in secrecy in their planning or surprise in their implementation ... mysterious hints of change don't cut it).

Why does everyone with a complaint about one of the changes added with SoF mention lack of communication??? There were numerous threads on this website specifically for all of the major revamps. Spell research got the added benefit of ALREADY having the new system ingame, where pre-revamp it was for certain expansion spells, and post-revamp it was all spells.

Honestly, if you have *constructive* criticism, feel free to express it. But to say they didn't tell us about the revamps is nothing more than a lie.

[Lennyn]

But to say they didn't tell us about the revamps is nothing more than a lie.

To say it's a lie would be overstating it. The majority of players for any online game never visit the forums for the games they play. This is a well known fact and the game companies know this. If the developers are only making upcoming changes known via forums such as this then they aren't making the majority of their customers aware of upcoming changes.

I almost never visit the forums at eqplayers and only visit these forums when I have questions about tradeskills that I haven't been able to find the answer to elsewhere.

There really isn't any way to ensure that all players know about upcoming changes. Using the motd tool to let folks know when you log in? Heh how many people don't even bother to read it? How about the message area as you log in? How many times do you recall folks asking what was in the patch when all they had to do was read the stinking patch message?

I could see calling it a lie if Sony used the motd and/or the patch message area (not sure what else to call it) because then it is the players choice to ignore those messages.

[Whipcream]

I too am disappointed with the way the research changes were made and am not apologetic with wanting to vent. It always seems possible that SOE developers or market folks would come to a site that seems like an old friend to so many Everquest fans (this site).

I got that same feeling in the back of my head. I can't prove it. But boy, it sure feels like it when I listen to the reasoning...

- - - - - - -

Why does everyone with a complaint about one of the changes added with SoF mention lack of communication??? There were numerous threads on this website specifically for all of the major revamps. Spell research got the added benefit of ALREADY having the new system ingame, where pre-revamp it was for certain expansion spells, and post-revamp it was all spells.

Honestly, if you have *constructive* criticism, feel free to express it. But to say they didn't tell us about the revamps is nothing more than a lie.

I think you're thinking of 'EQ Traders Members' instead of 'EQ Players'.

99.9% of the people who play EverQuest don't read the patch messages and don't browse the forums. To most people, EverQuest is just a game, not a piece of software to constantly keep up to date on. Look at the Join Date under my name, and look how many posts I've had since then. That is more than most people in EverQuest.

There was no in-game warning or GM announcement about research change. To most people, it just happened. To someone who spends a lot of time reading the details of EQ Traders messages and forums it would seem obvious, but not to most people.

Kind of reminds me of that one part in Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, when the local planning office is trying to knock down the guys house to build a bypass....

"I'm afraid you're going to have to accept it, this bypass has go to be built and it's going to be built!"
"First I've heard if it, why's it got to be built?"
"What do you mean, why's it got to be built? It's a bypass. You've got to build bypasses. You were quite entitled to make any suggestions or protests at the appropriate time, you know."
"Appropriate time? The first I knew about it was when a workman arrived at my home yesterday."
"But Mr. Dent, the plans have been available in the local planning office for the last nine months."
"Oh yes, well as soon as I heard I went strait round to see them, yesterday afternoon. You hadn't exactly gone out of your way to call attention to them, had you? I mean, like actually telling anybody or anything."
"But the plans were on display..."
"On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them."
"That's the display department."
"With a flashlight."
"Ah, well, the lights had probably gone."
"So had the stairs"
"But look, you found the notice, didn't you?"
"Yes, yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard.'"

[Maevenniia]

Please take your venting to the Primal Scream Forum, as always, The Rules still apply.