wow, new and improved research... huh

[acoma]

Wow I just came back to EQ after sveral years and was going about my thing trying to gather words for the lvl 32 necro spell invoke shadow. Use to be words of dark paths, words of haunting(abiatch), and Words of suffering combinable in a research tomb of any caster with the research skill, my chanter with a 162 skill, "cannot combine in this container" is the new product it seems. So what use to just be three drops is now this:

Spell: Invoke Shadow
Spell Research Components: Bone Chips, Conjuring Thickener, Ink Additive of the Nameless, Ink of the Companion, Quill of the Arch Lich, Smooth Runic Hide
In: Spell Research Kit

Conjuring Thickener
Spell Research Components: Topaz(2), Vetiver Root
In: Spell Research Kit

Ink of the Companion
Spell Research Components: Chromium Powder, Logwood Pigment, Vial of Pure Water
In: Spell Research Kit

Vial of Pure Water
Spell Research Components: Empty Vial(5), Gnomish Heat Source, Water Flask(4)
In: Spell Research Kit

Quill of the Arch Lich
Spell Research Components: A Quill, Arcane Treatment, Necrotic Treatment
In: Spell Research Kit

Smooth Runic Hide
Spell Research Components: Celestial Solvent, Raw Runic Hide, Runic Hide Solution, Skinning Knife
In: Spell Research Kit

Skinning Knife
Smithing Components: Dagger Blade Mold, Hilt Mold, Small Brick of Ore, Water Flask
In: Forge

Man this simple old spell just becase really expensive and time consuming to make for a lvl 32ish pet, dont ya think? I dont even have the new expansion and the hides only drop in the new zones, or so it says, so I am guessing this new twist is SOEs way of getting anyone who tradeskills to buy the new expansion? This is a croo, why did they not leave the old way to do combines in the game as well for all the people who made spells that way for years? ANother nail in the coffin I guess...

[ramoen]

I am new to this system myself, but i believe that the hides are not only dropped in new zones, they drop from caster mobs of the appropiate level around the world.
The reason you dont see much drop data, is that people need to report their findings when they get drops. (I just searched that particular hide on allakhazam, and they have a few extra potential droppers, one in FM and one in south Karana)

i also thought that most of the sub components could be vendor bought at extra cost, instead of doing all the subcombines, but i have to admit, i havent checked it yet.

/Ramoen

[Gorse]

Things change. Right, wrong, it happens. They really are not very expensive, but does require more space.

Unlike the old system, for the new system you only have to find the one dropped item, which coveres multiple spells, instead of farming and farming to get each one of the components you need. Plus any class can make the spells now, instead of being stuck leveling up a researcher in each class or hiring someone else every time.

If the one change "puts the nail in your coffin" then it is probably time to find a new game. If you are enjoying the game, then just have fun. It's not worth being angry all the time.



Gorse

[Maevenniia]

As was mentioned, you now only require one dropped component to make a spell, the rest can be vendor bought.

(unless you want to farm Crystallized Sulfur and Saltpeter to make your own oils and acids to save some plat, in which case it's 3 dropped components)

The hides/scrolls/parchments are global drops, by the way, they aren't restricted to TSS, just farm caster-type mobs of the appropriate level range in whatever zone they might be in.

Good luck!

[Voragath]

Hmm... I think I should do all the subcombines and sell to peeps since many don't want to do it. A nice way to make some pp.

Yes, all the spell needs NOW is ONE DROP item and voila! A level 30'ish spell can be made for less than the words for a level 30 spell would cost. And, actually, getting lowbie spells has been decreased in time consumption because ANY researcher on your server can make it. When I started research, I saw only 2 researchers ever and sent ooc upon ooc asking for a researcher and never got a response; so I started research on my own. In some cases it took months to get my spells and 100's of pp I didn't have. Now, I coulda just farmed the drop item and handed to someone.

The system is simpler not because of less combines and not faster because the combines are faster. It is simpler because it is more intuitive and requires only one drop. It is faster because the drops are global and common and all the subcombine stuff is bought on vendor. Woot! 30 minutes of running to baz to buy the drop, then running to the vendors to make the subcombines >> than farming one or two drops for 3 months and checking the baz for 3 months to see if it's for sale. Actually, I have narrowed my time to 15 minutes from the time someone asks me to make it and the time I complete the combine (if I don't have the drop on me). Before, I would spend weeks trying to gather the stuff and some guildies were way past the level of the spell by the time they got and said nevermind by the time I made it

Yeah, the old used 2 or 3 components. But, you fail to mention: they were drop only by certain zones and randomly dropped at that, there wasn't any logical way to tell what comps went for which spell without checking here (and if the recipe here was wrong you were just sol), many of the drops were used in various recipes which would drive prices sky high (2k pp anyone?), those drops could be and were used in making celestial essence (gah! you used my uber rare page for what?!!!!), and that there were 100's of drops which meant you couldn't stock them all in your bank either.

Like I said in another post, I bet many others agree: I'm not buying the "the old way was much simpler/cheaper/faster" bit. I think it's a matter of perspective, though and rather than looking at 3 comps v. several comps you should look at the system as a whole. I outlined the old way's drawbacks which you should take into account when comparing the two and I bet you'll sing a different tune too.

[Whipcream]

Acoma, I feel your pain. I had a metric ton of words and runes in my bank. Then one day the old system was erased and the new one was implemented. No warning or anything. I didn't have time to use up the components I had before this new system went live.

You should have seen general chat when this first happened. So many researchers screaming "wtf just happened" and "is research broken right now" and so forth.

This is a croo, why did they not leave the old way to do combines in the game as well for all the people who made spells that way for years?

I have yet to find an answer to this myself. I am beginning to think that SoE are the ones running platshop.com. With the EQ populations so low right now, I hardly think it's a good way to encourage subscribers to stay.

Some people say the old way is way better, some people say the new way is better. But what is ignored the most is why both ways at once isn't the best. Seems to be an avoided topic.

If the one change "puts the nail in your coffin" then it is probably time to find a new game. If you are enjoying the game, then just have fun. It's not worth being angry all the time.

Gorse, stop telling people to find a new game if they don't agree with you. If people don't voice their opinions over some of the more absurd ideas SoE has come up with in the past we would all still be running around with those ridiculous running animation's, human models would now look like undead Drakkins, and we would still be staring at our spellbooks and pressing the 'Mediate' button just to regain our mana.

[melkorr]

SoE took a system which wasn't logical at all, and replaced it with an intuitive system where you need ONE drop, and to know what you're trying to make, and you get a spell. They changed it to let any int caster make any class's spells, and they made it so the drops were level specific, and global. How is this a bad change?

As for no warning?

They had a thread here about changes to spell research MONTHS before the change went live. Same as with each change to cultural, and revamped jewelcrafting, etc etc.

And "deal with it or get lost" isn't fanboy logic. Having an opinion is okay. Voicing an opinion is okay. Trashing SoE repeatedly and refusing to listen to reasoning for the change is pointless. The majority of the people here are happy with the change. You, obviously, aren't. Wonderful. You're not going to change our minds; the end result is going to be yelling back and forth. We come here to talk about tradeskills. If I wanted to hear you rant, I'd look in Primal Scream.

Oh yea, Sony runs platshop.com.... because 1 dropped component and a bit of plat given to npcs definitely brings more business to the plat farmers . Words/Runes/Pages were much harder to get than the current spell component drops. The drops for the new recipes are easy to get (You just need to hunt mobs YOUR LEVEL) and plentiful. And with the amount of spells that actually need to be researched, very few of those drops are needed.

Having just recently leveled up 1 character of each class to 30, I went through the process of buying all their spells. With spells bought up to level 30, there were less than 20 or so TOTAL that I had to research. I have 1 researcher, and he spent an hour or 2, and less than 500plat, to research those spells. Admittedly, I got my own dropped components, and didn't use the bazaar. But I picked all of those up while I leveled the characters up. They each ended up with more than enough drops for their own spells, and the left overs went to my bazaar mule. If you put more time into trying it than glancing at the recipes and deciding "this looks hard", you would notice how much more simplistic it actually is than the old version. If you tried it out (look at the in game book that describes the system), you would see it's quite a bit "systematic". Hence the "systematic research" bit.

[Prexis]

As was kinda mentioned above, using the old research system (old world & LoY era) your enchanter could not have combined the necro spell. Only a necro could have combined the spell. At least with the newer system your enchanter can actually create the spell.