Excessively complicated

[Aspect-EQ]

After having done research for virtually every caster class since day 1... I find this new system utterly excessive and pointless to the point of lunacy to even dive into it upon returning to the game... There are several casters I know who have abandoned their class all together because of this new research system and its overly complicated structure... So much so in fact that its even hard to find the research spells on the bazaar... I think the bottom line is its extremely difficult for ppl to find out what components are needed for a specific combine for a pre determined spell... I have dove into the vendor books, searched and searched among this website as well as several others, and just like the vendor book in-game, the vast contradictions in peoples theories is creating even more confusion... So with that said... does the authors of this website ever plan to update the spell research areas with a legible layout thats understandable as far as what spells require what components, etc??? Or has some other site already done this? And if so, for the love of all thats just, what is the url ?!?!? This is a semi-vent post I know, but after numerous discussions with other casters in-game, its very obvious this new system is so complicated that ppl are abandoning pure casters simply to avoid research... and sorry, but that sounds pretty bad to me... so if the general public is making this harder than it is, where is a guide or recipe list that lays it out for those who dont seem to be getting this new system... ?

Standing in a long line of frustration...
-Aspect

[melkorr]

Firstly, breath. Paragraphs, or even actual periods instead of ellipses, would make that rant much easier to read.

Secondly, don't just come here and bash the system and the site.

The new system is WAY more understandable than the old way. Before, it was combine a couple of random runes/words/pages together, and get a spell. The pieces going in often were completely unrelated to the final product. With the new system, if you know what the spell does, you know what the components are. If you actually read the books ingame, or looked at the various info on this site regarding the systematic research method, you would see how simple it is. Also, the recipes on the site are being updated, but it takes some time to redo all the pages. Until someone finds the "Update everything instantly" button, putting hundreds of updated recipes into the database will take time. Deal with it.

[hangovr]

As of yesterday morning, 12/2 sunday, all database submissions for spells were updated. (doesn't include the spellcaster essence's).

One point though, who quits their character over a tradeskill?

[Roanne]

The new system is generally more predictable than the old one for sure. Yes, there are more "moving parts" which makes it seem complicated at first and there are a few spells that use slightly unpredicted system parts, but overall its much easier to figure out (especially when youre upgrading a recipe in a spell line).

As far as the bazaar issue goes, most researchers I know operate on a 'make to order' basis. There are just too many spells and not enough possible merchant slots. Some researchers stock hot sellers (cleric and shaman HP buffs seem consistently popular, for example), but most just keep a stock of parts and click the spells people request. I do this for guildmates and friends but do not advertise the service in the bazaar (I like to be able to play sometimes rather than being the bazaar's vending machine).

Now what I will gripe about is the excess of dead end drops and recipes entering the game lately under the guise of "completeness." Various paper drops commonly from 70ish caster NPCs and fall into the system under the creation of level 71-75 spells, but they do not provide for the creation of any spells (I know, I know... yet). This also happened under the cultural armor system with many dead end slots and tiers (although the benefit of a smooth skillup path in smithing and tailoring make this one worth it). Curzon (presumedly for alchemy recipes that intentionally dont work) is another example.

[KyrosKrane]

I should also point out that pretty much all the information on this site is volunteer-submitted. If you don't like our research guides, write your own and submit it! I'll be happy to consider all submissions for posting, or you can self-publish it on the Guides forum.

[Ngreth Thergn]

And aditionally, we have another person griping the the new system is "too easy" adn I am "WoWizing" tradeskills...

So no matter what is done, someone is going to dislike the way things are. In the end this new system is much better.

[Eanelder]

I LOVE the new system ... but if i could suggest some pieces of constructive feedback is that I believe the stationery names could be reworked just a bit.

I believe the stationery type should determine the level range in blocks of 10 of the spells it creates. For example:

• 41-50 Spell Scroll
• 51-60 Papayrus
• 61-70 Parchments
• 71-80 Vellum
• 81-90 Paper
• etc ....

Currently, stationery type seems to switch every 5 levels, but when exactly the switch is made is very inconsistent.

In addition to that, I would have liked to see the level adjective be consistant across the 10 lvl span something along the lines of:

• 1 Frail [Stationery]
• 2 Brittle [Stationery]
• 3 Crude [Stationery]
• 4 Rough [Stationery]
• 5 Coarse [Stationery]
• 6 [Stationery]
• 7 Fine [Stationery]
• 8 Runic [Stationery]
• 9 Fine Runic [Stationery]
• 10 Glowing [Stationery]

So a lvl 87 stationery would be "Fine Paper", a lvl 72 would have been "Brittle Vellum", lvl 41 "Frail Spell Scroll". The one thing im not sure of is if the stationery change should go from 0-9, or 1 -10.

Also, any uncleanded version would just be called "Unprepared", and lose all the Sooty, dirty, filty etc adjectives.

And finally there should be an inexpensive way to downgrade between Stationery Quality, ie take a Glowing and make a Brittle.

It might be to much work or too big of a deal to make any changes now, but I thought i would bring it up just in case. The only problem I have now with systematic research is that I always have to look up the stationery list.

[Zacatac]

ppl are abandoning pure casters simply to avoid research...

You do realize that most casters never bother to do research at all? It's not exactly a class requirement.

[Maevenniia]

Not only isn't it a class requirement, very few spells are research-only.

-Classic and Kunark and Luclin spells drop in appropriate zones or off nameds, and some of the previously research only spells were put on vendors in Abysmal Sea, if I recall correctly
-you can still get PoP spells by turning in Ethereal parchments, Spectral Parments and Glowing Runes
-GoD spells are admittedly a pain in the tush, but they are obtainable by other means than research...
-you can turn in Muramite or shadowspine runes for the OoW spells
-you can do LDoN missions for LDoN points and buy spells from wayfarer merchants
-you still have to do DON missions for the couple of DON spells
-you still have to do the missions/tasks in DoDh for those spells

[Zaltak]

I agree with Eanelder the parchment name is the only confuseing part to me.
The new system is for sure an improvenment over the old.On the plus side
1) more logical system
2) only one dropped item
On the neg. side
1) Way too many subcombines
I'm glad that aqua regas,vials of murmantic acids,etc are buyable now.But you still have to make the inks,quills,and thickeners.
P.S.
Can somebody please repost the various parchments and what spell lvls they make?

[Eanelder]

Can somebody please repost the various parchments and what spell lvls they make?

http://mboards.eqtraders.com/eq/show...99&postcount=5

[thomenthechanter]

Ditto on most of the points here.

I like the new research system. When this came out I trashed so many useless Yaeth's, Toharon's, and the like pages that I'd been holding onto in the vain hope something might actually drop their counterparts... someday.

This way, the only thing I *need* is the right paper for the spell level; I can vendor-buy everything else, or save myself a little bit of plat for a bit of farming. Thanks to gracious groups and guildies, I have a nice little stockpile of stationery now on my main.

By the same token, it is absolutely true that very few of the spells are even useful anymore. Most people on the four servers on which I play burn right past the researchable stuff in order to reach the holy grails of 71+, where nearly all the spells are again buyable, even if only at Rank 1. I know of several people who went full-XP grind just to skip POP-hell.

Love the new system, cry that it's not particularly useful. ;D

[Sadidas]

I Love this new system. So much easier to understand. i just went from 243 - 300 in just under a week with this new system making the new "Toys" for my guild.

Instead of looking for 2-3 dropped pieces for making 1 spell, its 1 piece that is dropped for 1 spell and the rest is vendor bought. If your having problems with trying to find the new recipes for old spells sit back and chill. they will come for the lazy people that don't want to experiment. hehe.

[toll]

I thinkyou shuold leave the existing game along ngreth, you're destroying the heritage and a lot of peoples hard work.

Why not just add new things instead of changing existing things. I'm still struggling with the fact that my bank is full of trash now. I spent many, many hours collecting that stuff and learing the trade.

Edit: Not trying to be rude or demean you're hard work mate. I just don't understand it.

[YthanEQ]

I love systematic research too.

The other day a guildmate asked me to make the level 57 Enchanter spell Forlorn Deeds.

He happily handed me his Yaeth's 91s and 92.
He was concerned when I told him the old recipes no longer worked.
He was worried when I told him the new recipe wasn't listed here (only the old one is listed).
He was absolutely astonished when I came back moments later with his spell!

I don't think you could do that with the old method. (Actually, I couldn't have made the old style spell anyway because I play a mage.)

The point is, get the right parchment/vellum (etc.) and you can pretty much make whatever you want. My family guild would be a lot worse off without the spells that I and another researcher have made for them.

Ythan